<p>You are RIGHT! The pineapple question -- bah! EVEN if it did appear--which I doubt--it would be in a critical reading passage. The answer would be in the critical reading passage [what did the family eat most for breakfast in the morning? -- the answer's in the text, duh!]</p>
<p>That was the correct answer to the prison question for an IQ test, but is that reality? Is that what happens in prison? Do people come out better able to deal with the world? is that what we say in a courtroom, when we sentence someone? I think not.</p>
<p>The point is questions like that are designed by people with a certain background, a certain training and it is their reality. We all know in our justice system, despite the pablem to the countrary, prison is to punish, and remove people from society....there is no rehaiblitation going on in many prisons...so the words of rehabilitation are distachted from the real world....</p>
<p>As for the connection between IQ and SAT, its the writers of the tests- people creating standards of intelligence and knowledge for everyone? </p>
<p>It is amazing how little curiosity people have about the organization that has such power of peoples' lives....at first, the College Board was there to set standards for schools, applications, etc...then it was a test, which was supposed to be fairly neutral, and know it is a HUGE business....interesting isn't it that so many schools were dropping the SAT or had problems with it, that the SAT "decided" to change....</p>
<p>But, if you all just want to not question anything, have so little curioisty about the possiblities for racism, sexism, and bias, then, as my 15 year old D would say, "whatever, don't ever be curious about "the system" '</p>
<p>I am not a conspiricy nut, just have a natural interest in groups with influence and power....</p>
<p>If universities demand from foreigners the same SAT results as from US applicants then, unfortunately, they discriminate against foreign applicants. US applicants are not only mostly native speakers, but also prepare for SATs, sometimes long before the high school. There are many schools abroad too, especially international schools, that help to prepare for SATs, but in any case even then foreigners, and particularly not-native speakers are in disadvantage. The reason for that is time. Foreigners, not native speakers, even with an excellent knowledge of English, need more time to understand a question and more time to react to it. That does not make them less able candidates for Harvard and Co. American universities are not races; they give to students plenty of time to answer questions and write essays. The argument that those students who cannot get 700-800 on SATs will not be able to study at best schools is therefore wrong. In addition, students at schools, for example, in England write their answers in a form of essays; they are unfamiliar with multiple-choice format.
My daughter is a very good example of somebody with excellent credentials who, probably, does not have a chance in a million to become a student in one of her favourite schools, she applied to H or P (at least, we both came to this conclusion after visiting CC) because of her SATs. She has SAT I 1370 (680V, 690M), SAT II 670French, 680 Math IC and 700 Writing. She has excellent school result (she studies in UK) and ECs (though she is not an Olympic athlete or a President of a small republic) and has a sunny character; loved by everybody. She is a very good writer and wrote wonderful essays, but it took her a month to write them. English is her third language. She is multilingual 6 languages + 2 more started last year.
We all understand that American universities are mostly for Americans, but foreigners enrich them and their students. Also, for as far as I know Americans who want to study abroad do not need to do exams that would put them in obvious disadvantage.
By the way, I am not complaining, so, please, do not be offended. We realise that my daughter is a guest in your country and have to follow your rules, but it does not make SAT demands for foreigners any fairer.</p>
<p>I've seen junior-high-age kids in a working class neighborhood of a non-English-speaking country studying the 10 Real SATs book. There is no secret about what is needed to score well on the SAT I: </p>
<p>1) a reasonable reading ability in Engish, which one has to have anyway to thrive in United States college studies, </p>
<p>and </p>
<p>2) a very elementary knowledge of mathematics, the kind attained by ninth grade in many countries. </p>
<p>I can't consider that biased against foreigners. It is the foreigners themselves who are deciding to study in the United States rather than to study in some other country. There is no evidence to show that SAT I scores UNDERpredict the suitability of foreign applicants for United States colleges, which is what one would have to show to show bias. If anything, most foreign SAT I-takers do better in math than their United States agemates (thus gaining them competitive scores on that section of the test), as one would expect from the lousy standard of math instruction in the United States.</p>
<p>On one hand - yes (I'm an immigrant), because english is extremely hard even for most Americans, never mind foreigners (I got 710 with studying). But on the other hand, if you live here and plan to go to a very competetive college, you should get accustomed to the test, rather than complaining that the test is not accustomed to you. Bottom line - learn the language first, like I did, study and you'll do well. Oh and by the way same thing goes for the "disadvantaged urban inner city students": go to school on a regular basis, do your homework, read books, get your a** to the library and get the SAT prep book, stop complaining and blaming your problems on others, and once again, you'll do well</p>
<p>If SAT scores were the only measure by which college admissions were based, I would agree with you. However, scores are just one element of the application package, and not usually the most important element.</p>
<p>Bad or okay SAT can keep you out....good gives you a chance....</p>
<p>I'm really sick of people, mainly Asians (no offense...and I say that because my school is 25% Asian), complaining that the SAT is discrimatory. It isn't! The test makers can't please everyone in the passages they right....and if you still have a problem with that, then don't take the test. No one said you HAD to take the SAT (granted you will be at a disadvantage). The test scorers are automated, so they aren't going to be like, "This is an Asian paper, lets change the grade." Whatever you get on the SAT is what you got on the SAT. Read the passage, answer the question, do your best. Don't use that the SAT is racist/biased just because you don't get a perfect score, it is just a test...and get over yourself.</p>
<p>My my....its not just a test....it is a very big factor in getting into college, it is just one factor, but it carries a lot of weight... and whats wrong with being concerned about possible bias in a test....the test writers are not automated, and don't you find it interesting glucose, that the test has gone through some MAJOR changes this year...if it was so perfect, why these huge, and they are, changes....why are they fixing it if it weren't broken....and until you have had some discrimintation and bias in your life, I advise you to open your eyes....and not be so rude to those who have had bias....it makes a person look bad</p>
<p>Wonderful words. Thank you citygirlsmom!</p>
<p>Mostly "fixing" it due to the president of the UCs. My guess is that without any outside "pushing" the SAT would have never changed.</p>
<p>LOLOLOL. tetrahedr0n hit the nail there. Corporate America...</p>
<p>They had to fix it because many many colleges were dropping it because it didn't do what it claimed to do...show how people will do in college, there was not really the correlation between the number of kids getting high scores and success...that does not mean that all the 1500+ kids will not do well, it means a good number would not ....it all had to do with money because the SAT was old, had some serious problems, the anaolgies were not representative of knowledge, and some of the reading questions were very outdated. there were math issues to be addressed, etc. Yeah, the College Board has quite a monopoly going here. But with hundreds of colleges dropping out, they had to change.</p>
<p>Sorry, but do you have any evidence of this at all? You claim that many colleges were dropping it, but as far as I know, the UCs were the only school threatening to switch to the ACT. Where does the "not showing future success" come into play? And I still don't understand what it has to do with money?</p>
<p>Here are some links:</p>
<p>and what does it have to do with money? The College Board is a BUSINESS!!! Yes it is, and if it lose business, it loses money.<br>
"Although the new SAT is expected to be harder, instructors say it's every bit as coachable as the old one. Tutors rely on a variety of techniques including repetition, simulated test conditions and keeping track of test points."</p>
<p>I really feel like (the College Board) did it to remain competitive with the ACT, said Kimberly Williams, executive director of national marketing for The Princeton Review</p>
<p>Yep. Although the CB is non-profit, it still has to pay its workers. And its largest customer is the UC system...</p>
<p><a href="http://www.uscollegeprep.com/item/faq_sat.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.uscollegeprep.com/item/faq_sat.html</a>
\How can good coaching benefit the student?
Within the College Board's 1955 annual report, the director noted: "If the board's test can be regularly beaten through coaching, then the board is itself discredited." Interestingly, the College Board now sells coaching materials. Several years ago, FairTest reported on several studies demonstrating that good coaching courses raise a student's combined score an average of 100 points.*</p>
<p>As for how Bowdoin will use the new SAT, Dean of Admissions Jim Miller said "it will take three to four years of matching students' college performances against their SAT scores before anyone knows just how good a predictor [of academic performance in college] the new test is. So I guess the jury will be out on the value of the new test until then."</p>
<p>The College Board Web site features this statement:</p>
<p>"It is important to know that if groups (such as male students and female students or white students and African American students) have different average scores on the same test, it does not necessarily mean that the test is biased. If the groups actually have different knowledge and skills tied to different educational backgrounds and opportunities, the scores will reflect those differences."</p>