<p><a href="http://www.brown.edu/Administration/George_Street_Journal/v22/v22n17/SAT.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.brown.edu/Administration/George_Street_Journal/v22/v22n17/SAT.html</a>
<a href="http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1998/11/dohertySAT.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1998/11/dohertySAT.html</a></p>
<p>yes its biased and not just against foreign students it hurts everyone who's not rich and white (i am so don't give me crap)</p>
<p>Even if it's not biased (but it's biased), it's imperfect, impractical and need reforming. And New SAT is not a solution.</p>
<p>So should all colleges go to open admissions?</p>
<p>Tokenadult, that is not the point....its the reliance on ONE TEST to compare so many students, a test that if you have the money and time, you can prep for, or else why does the collegeboard itself sell prep books....and if the test weren't so important, why do the schools show off the scores on their profiles, why not show off volunteer hours, service, or, go the other direction and show average amound donated by alumni for their children- development admits- or show average SAT for athletes....and it is interesting that the profiles don't often show legacy admits, and their SATs.....or average income of admits....</p>
<p>Love how everyone defends a cookie cutter test....</p>
<p>There are some problems with the test, and the marketing of it</p>
<p>Prepping for the SAT I doesn't take that much time, and it takes even less money, because the only highly useful prep material is the College Board book of sample tests, which many people can obtain from a public library. </p>
<p>I take citygirlsmom's answer to mean that she does NOT advocate that every college in the country go to open admissions, which means that the group of colleges (not a large group, actually) that differ from community colleges and other open admissions colleges in not only theoretically rejecting applicants, but ACTUALLY rejecting applicants, still have to decide which applicants to accept. Many criteria could be applied to decide whom to admit to a college, but I don't think ability to read English (for a college that conducts its classes in English) and ability to do junior-high math (by international standards) as indicated by SAT scores are "racist" criteria, which was the thrust of the original post that opened this thread. Many people of many races succeed in meeting those criteria for admission at colleges that use SAT I scores as one element of deciding admission applications. And there are hundreds of open admission colleges available to applicants who desire to attend college before meeting those criteria.</p>
<p>citygirlsmom, I am not a defender of the SAT. In fact, on other threads I and one or two others have called it a drug, said people are addicted to it and should just say no, etc. I prefer the ACT for college admission, which is a different test entirely. This is not sour grapes - all my kids scored over 700 on both math and verbal of the SAT (I am suspicious of people who complain about the SAT simply because their own children did poorly).</p>
<p>I will say, however, that your prison example makes no sense to me. The SAT does not ask "opinion" questions. Even the reading questions are 100% text based and can be answered with absolutely no other knowledge of whatever subject is being discussed - even if it is topic from totally outside one's own culture (my kids have successfully answered questions on topics they've barely even heard of!). </p>
<p>Also, the SAT questions are very, very interesting, as they often APPEAR to be straightforward (say) math problems, but they are actually logic problems that sometimes require no knowledge of math beyond arithmetic to answer. Many problems that seem very complex, with square or cube roots of of quadratic equations divided by another equations and equalling something else, are simple "trick" questions (I am not using "trick" in a negative way), like optical illusions. The truly intelligent will "see" the other side of the illusion and will be able to answer the question instantly. It is more of a neutral "intelligence" test (with quote around "intelligence" since most people scream "racist" when they see the word!)because it will separate out those who can't "see" the real problem, will reach for their calculators, struggle over the answer, etc.</p>
<p>Interesting, too, that you should quote James Miller of Bowdoin on the new SATs, as Bowdoin was one of the first schools in the country to be SAT-optional.</p>
<p>Also - the whole flap about test prep is a red herring. The most test prep that the VAST majority of my kids' friends did was to do a practice test, readily available in any hs guidance office (if one cannot afford the $20 "10 Real SATs" book). And they are all in Ivies, top ten LACS, or top 25 universities.</p>
<p>In the "olden days" - like the 18th century - places like Bowdoin, Yale, and Harvard could examine each student applying and decide whether they would do well at the school (no, it was NOT just based on wealth). </p>
<p>But today, with gazillions of students applying, many schools believe there has to be at least one "benchmark" that is the same for all. It can't be only GPA, as grading, weighting, etc. is different at every school. It can't be class rank - there are schools that have so much grade inflation that they have 40 valedictorians. It can't be ECs, community service, etc.</p>
<p>So it makes sense to have one test simply for a benchmark, as one part of the overall app. I prefer, as I've said, that it be the ACT. I also think the AP exams would be a good benchmark.</p>
<p>Elbereth Gilthoniel posted this on another thread:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Still, it is a test of basic skills, and is of considerable importance in college admissions since it can validate a person's GPA. They use this because the curriculum and course diffculty of different high schools across the country vary. For example, if a student has a 4.8 W GPA but an 1110 SAT score, the adcons see that some MAJOR grade inflation is going on. If a student has a 1570 SAT score but a 2.9 W GPA, the adcons will realize that this guy is indeed intelligent, but doesn't work to his potential. Because high schools across the nation vary in difficulty and rigor, standardized tests are the only objective yardstick of whether a student can be successful at a particular college. With increased "proofreading" by parents on the application essays and grade inflation, the SAT is likely to have an even more prominent role in undergraduate admissions.
[/quote]
It (and I) agree with nedad.</p>
<p>Yeah the SAT is biased against foreigners. DUH. If I went to Seville and took a college test - it is going to be in Spanish. Even if I am fluent in Spanish, native borns have a leg up. That is common sense.</p>
<p>And the test prep stuff is bull. I made a 1450 in 11th grade without ever opening a test prep book or "studying" and the stuff about the money factor - ever hear of these new things called LIBRARIES.</p>
<p>its not just biased against foreigners who's first language isn't english it is also biased against foreign anglophone students and especially certain economic groups in the US no matter what ethnic background</p>
<p>Please read <a href="http://www.kimberlyswygert.com/archives/000447.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.kimberlyswygert.com/archives/000447.html</a> . Clearly, you do not know what "biased" means. The SAT is known to overpredict first-year GPA for black students (more so for males than females). If the test were "racist," would you not expect the opposite to be true?</p>
<p>i didn't say racist (if im who you're talking about) i said its biased against certain economic groups (that includes every race, black, white, blue, whatever)</p>
<p>okay xbisoubisoux, name those groups, provide evidence of the bias.</p>
<p>ummm how does it hurt people taht are not rich? how does it hurt people that are foreign? the average SAT II Writing score in Taiwan/Japan/Korea is higher than that in the US. The highest average on the SAT for a racial group is asian, thats not white. the SAT is in now way biased. if you are decently intelligent you will do decently well on the SAT. the people who complain that it is biased just did poorly, maybe u should complain that it doesnt test intelligence. but dont say its biased cuz most internationals that i know of usually score higher than the average rich white dude.</p>
<p>the lower your families income the lower (on average!) you do on the SAT...and if one more person says this is because poor people are lazy and dumb I will go insane
This is not where I learned about the bias but this site illustrates It <a href="http://www.hamilton.edu/academic/Government/government_375/sp97/Race&Testing/rt4.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.hamilton.edu/academic/Government/government_375/sp97/Race&Testing/rt4.html</a> click on class at the top</p>
<p>shrek: the reason asians do better on the SAT is because their parents are smarter than the average white parents, why? simple these people are some of the smatest and most dedicated workers in their country, they want what's best for their children so they work hard to get enough money to move to the US and be successful, did you think that all those asians working in family restaurants and such came here to do that? no they sacrificed personal success to give their children a good education, if you tested the entire population back in asia (if they could all speak english) you would find that the discrepancy disappears.</p>
<p>as for "the people who complain that it is biased just did poorly" once again stop generalizing. I am one of the many people who did unexpectedly well on the SAT (1470) an are still against it. To clarify I did not expect to do well because I am not the best of students. I am also white and belong to the upper middle class so the bias that I believe in is for me. So yes I am delighted with my score but not the biased nature of the test.</p>
<p>xbisou: When you start making generalizations about one group (asians) does higher because they are smarter as you said then the logical progression is to say that blacks score much lower because they are much less smart and I'm sure that you do not intend that. Watch the connections you make because it is easy to apply them in other unappealing ways.</p>
<p>And btw the test isn't biased.</p>
<p>Bottom line guys: it is biased and racist against 2 types of people: dumb people, and those who refuse to study.</p>