<p>
Yes it DOES help some. For Asian applicants with stellar records in academics and ECs, for example, this debate will explain why s/he may have been rejected by those top private colleges. Bovertine and starbright, as a non-asian applicant, it does not concern you, but what you are saying is like as a non-black, the civil rights movement isn’t helping anybody.</p>
<p>Oh, and bovertine and starbright, rest easy. I’ve said what I have to say on this matter, on this thread at least, so I’ll sign off.</p>
<p>
No, he never did any research in his life. He is a community newspaper publisher from rural midwest. To him, the lies spoken by college admission officers, Mr.Fitzsimmons , russ limbaugh et.al. are his evidences, not the numbers in some reports.</p>
<p>
Amen …</p>
<p>
Just to help annasdad with his math, the simulated admission results, if the private colleges practiced race-neutral admission in the Fall 1997 cycle,
**
White = 59.9-6.5 = 53.4%
Black = 8.3 - 5.5 = 2.8%
Hispanic = 7.9 - 3.2 = 4.7%
Asian = 23.9 + 15.1 = 39%
**</p>
<p>No other race, including whites, can claim that they too suffered by racial balancing in college admission. Only Asians suffered.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Lol. First off, you don’t know the ethnic background of my kids. </p>
<p>More importantly, if you think arguing with strangers on the internet somehow approximates the civil rights movement, you’ve got to get off your computer.</p>
<p>If this is such an important issue, get off of CC and start a campaign. Take action, initiate, seek change.</p>
<p>toughyear,</p>
<p>I sense that you harbor a tremendous amount of anger over this issue. Perhaps it would help if you would pursue this issue in real life by filing lawsuit against the offending institutions, with the help of Asian American legal societies or other charitable organizations that share your suspicions. Historically, that is the way that unlawful racial discrimination has been struck down in this country. I know there are a lot of people who would be supportive of your efforts.</p>
<p>Occupy HYP. Less than 1 percent get in that group.</p>
<p>“Because Asians tend to focus more on academic and test scores, their stats are higher in general, and this is the same for women.”</p>
<p>I can name probably a dozen Asian groups who focus LESS on academics and test scores, with lower stats in general, who get admitted as URMs.</p>
<p>
But from how you react to this issue, it is a very safe bet your kid and yourself are non-asians.</p>
<p>
No, this message board is to share info that concerns college admission rather than bringing change. Just because it does not concern yourself (i.e., you are not asian), do not ridicule at the posts because this is a very serious matter for asian applicants. Their hurdle is 50-100% higher than the rest.</p>
<p>Bay,</p>
<p>“I sense that you harbor a tremendous amount of anger over this issue.” Well, no. But I am concerned about this discrimination. But when folks like annasdad and starbright, who are obviously not asians, scoff off at this very serious issue when it comes to highschool kids applying to colleges as asian american, it make me angry at those posts. Because this IS a very serious matter for asian applicants – 17% of class, instead of 37% of class, it is more than double the height they have to jump over.</p>
<p>First of all, mini, cherry picking a fullbright stat to “prove” Smith is better than Harvard is really impressive analysis!!! Did you learn that stuff at Oxford?</p>
<p>As for the whole issue of whether Asians have to be better than everyone else to get into top schools (although perhaps not Smith!) as well as often in the workplace . . . well, it seems there are many who see themselves as devoutly non-racist but I really think in their heart of hearts they find it much easier to summon sympathy for racial groups that need lowered standards, programs to help them, etc. vs. racial groups that are basically whipping them in the classroom and the workplace in many, many ways. That’s what’s really going on, I believe, with many posters here, who probably have absolutely no inkling that in fact their views on this issue are quite racist.</p>
<p>It’s way ugly. And is not going to go away. And it is going to have to change.</p>
<p>A ton of Asian kids can beat out my kids. I don’t want those Asian kids who can beat my kids to have to have handicaps placed on them in any sense. Otherwise, who even wants to be part of it?</p>
<p>is it possible to have a discussion without personally insulting those who disagree with you?</p>
<p>bears & dogs: writing a book on cc? 
I’d read it.</p>
<p>Don’t worry about it. CC is filled with high stat posters and trolls. You will get into a wonderful school and have a happy, productive life.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There are methodological flaws in their study. I have not read the entire paper in a while, but here is the main issue:</p>
<p>(1)Their model has an R-squared of 0.187(model 7, which is the relevant one). This means that their model only explains about 19% of variation in the admission rates. </p>
<p>(2)In other words, 81% of why students are admitted cannot be explained by their model. Building a model you claim explains admissions rate should at least explain more than 50% of the variation in the data. </p>
<p>Their model does not explain why the students were admitted. There are other flaws with the paper, but I don’t have the time to read it again, perhaps, some other time. </p>
<p>This model did not account for ECs, teacher recommendation, parents’ income, etc</p>
<p>Perhaps, once you include parents income in the regression, race might not be a factor at all. Remember race correlates significantly with parents income, so an econometric estimation omitting parents income from the regression is not good. </p>
<p>OR maybe, they did, but they did not like the results?</p>
<p>alh
ohhh noooo my secret is out
since I said when people laughed at me in other thread for my bad grammar and spelling, incoherent sentences structure, " you all just have to wait til I won the Pulitzer"
my plan therefore is, second comings of “Angela’s Ash” -sh in 30 or so years,
title would be “My life as Bears and Dogs” you all are in it.
anyone in publishing wanna give me advance?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>@ toughyear, be careful with that kind of thing. It’s offensive. </p>
<p>I’m not asian, URM or ORM… But, I think the ORM’s do statistically speaking compete against each other. So, they are on a treadmill, or sorts. But, the athletes compete against each other, too. fwiw.</p>
<p>It’s not really completely quantifiable.</p>
<p>@Bovertine and Starbright: I don’t disagree with you, in principle, however each year there are new members at CC and they have an interest in a subject they may not have heard about ad infinitum. It may well be that it was interesting when you first heard it, but not to the older posters. I recall when I first started reading this board in the fall of "08 people were complaining about repetitiveness and whatnot, but the subject was new to me and I was very interested. I try to keep that in mind when I get to the “not this again” stage with a subject.</p>
<p>There are some Japanese Americans and Indian Americans and Chinese Americans who do not know they need to apply to more schools because when they give out the stats on college board or in US News, they just give the stats of everyone averaged together. It’s helpful for kids to know where they “really” stand. JMO</p>
<p>poetgrl - balanced, as usual.</p>
<p>Regarding “It’s a safe bet your kid and yourself are non-Asians”, I have to point out that I have been completely wrong many times about the sex, age and ethnicity of posters on CC. I may create a mental image based on the name, or by the way the poster writes, or for no reason whatsoever, only to find out that I’m completely off base. I don’t know how anyone can make a “safe bet” about anyone else’s true identity here, unless the poster tells us personal information, and even then I wouldn’t bet on it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is preposterous logic. Actually my kids are asian and will be obviously asian to anyone reading their apps. Moreover, you don’t actually know where I fall on this issue, do you? If you bother to read, you might note that I’m taking issue with the boring repetition, not a particular viewpoint in this debate.</p>
<p>What I find annoying actually isn’t at all the side you are on, but your obvious youth and the type argumentation that goes with your age and development. My work days are full of listening to kids debate…in my leisure time, I prefer to interact with adults and have discussions at that level. That is why I come to the PARENTS forum. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Um…you’re the one that made a comparison to the civil rights movement, not me. I couldn’t care less what you do…but if you want to suggest what you are doing is somehow as important as the civil rights movement, this is the kind of argument that more mature adults will push back on you. </p>
<p>Please go do your homework.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Right, true enough. But why can’t we just point them to the prior threads and encourage them to read them when it gets brought up? </p>
<p>Truly I don’t see the point. It is the same old stuff over and over and over again. Not just this particular argument, but a host of others that we are all very very very familiar with by now. Why not more pressing issues like, I dunno…is it better to pay full freight at an Ivy or go to the flagship honors college on merit money? Lol.</p>