Secondary instrument - thoughts?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>D3 is a sophomore violin performance major and has been playing viola on the side occasionally in chamber music situations on and off since she was about 13. She has an inexpensive, decent viola. She really enjoys playing it but has no training-- she has never had a viola lesson. </p>

<p>Over the summer we talked about the idea of taking advantage of being at a great conservatory and getting some secondary lessons on the instrument. She dropped the idea for a while, but over break she thought about it again and went in and met with her dean when she got back to school. He was very supportive; here is what she learned:</p>

<p>Secondary lessons can be either through the school or casually off the record. If she goes through the school, the price is steeper, but the lesson goes on her transcript. The school must charge what works out to about $300/hour for a lesson, but she can do a half-hour lesson, which amounts to half the cost (and of course half the lessons.) In reality, it is a lesson every other week, which everyone agrees would probably be better anyway because it would be less pressure than preparing a lesson every week.</p>

<p>There are hidden advantages to doing it through the school, aside from having the lesson on her transcript: she would be able to attend studio class, for example. </p>

<p>My inclination is that she should do it on the record this semester, even though the cost will be an added burden. At the end of the semester she can think about it and see if she wants to continue. But I'm curious what others have done in this situation-- pros and cons, thoughts and suggestions.</p>

2

<p>Be careful…you could be opening a door to wonderland…</p>

<p>I seem to recall you count violists among your children, so you probably already know this, but my concern (based on D3’s switch during her senior year) is that viola technique differs more dramatically from violin technique than you’d expect. The first thing her college teacher did was make her promise not to touch her violin, and it’s taken a year-and-a-half for masterclass teachers to stop asking if she’s “really” a violnist. And her teacher still pulls it out every now and again… (You can get away with a lot during quartets/orch and even some relatively demanding solo work, but the big difference seems to be in bow work.)</p>

<p>Studio class sounds like fun, though, and if your D has the time for it, could be a great way to soak up tons of viola knowledge quickly.</p>

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<p>My daughter, while taking primary lessons on classical bass, took secondary lessons on jazz bass (on the record), secondary lessons on viola da gamba (on the record) and also took lessons with a sitar player, learning to adapt ragas and other classical Indian forms to her bass playing (off the record). Her school did not charge extra for the secondary lessons so long as she stayed under 17 credit hours per semester. She also had the option of taking one of her ensemble classes for 0 credit instead of 1 credit hour, so it was effectively 18 credit hours per semester. With a bit of planning and having tested out of a semester each of music theory and piano, she was able to fit in all of her required courses and even pull off a minor in ethnomusicology while getting her BM in four years.</p>

<p>In her case, doing most of the extras on the record was a no-brainer because it actually cost less that way than it would have to pay for private lessons. I don’t think the sitar player was a faculty member, so that had to be done privately.</p>

<p>Would there be any difference in terms of ensemble opportunities when doing the lessons on or off the record? Would she be looking to play with both large and small ensembles? Are there standing ensembles at the school at the right level for her viola playing, or would she be looking to get involved in something less formal than that?</p>

<p>How much of a difference are we talking about in terms of cost between private lessons and the $300/hr you mentioned? What is the level of the other viola players in that studio class relative to her level of playing? Might she be able to audit the studio class without playing for it while studying privately? Perhaps it would be better to let her get a semester or two of private lessons under her belt and then take lessons on the record once she is playing at a level where she will get more out of playing in a studio class that is geared to the level of viola majors.</p>

4

<p>I don’t know anything about conservatories, but do they not have any GROUP classes that are designed to be for learning a secondary instrument?</p>

<p>At my son’s school they offer beginer group lessons which are designed for people who are already reasonably accomplished music students. Usually about 8 or 9 different instruments each semester, and many students (particularly music ed students) will take a different instrument each semester in addition to their primary instrument. These classes are small, with a cap in the 6-10 range, but they arn’t bill extra like the individual applied music classes are, and while they are intended to make one competent in the instrument they arn’t really intended to make one an expert, but imagine how cool it would be to be able to pick up and decently play most any instrument. </p>

<p>Over and over I have read on CC how practicing a secondary instrument is not a good idea as it takes time away from the primary instrument, and I understand that advice, but I would think that being a “well rounded” musician would have value in itself. Like I know that a lot of studio muscians play multiple instruments, and sometimes those instruments arn’t even remotely related to each other (such as drumkit and keyboard and sax).</p>

<p>In the world of wind and percussion instruments, it’s even expected that you will play several closely related instruments. My sons trumpet professor requires that he play C trumpet, B flat trumet, fluglehorn, and piccolo trumpet. Most trombone players are also expected to learn to play baratone. Tuba players may learn concert tuba, euphonium, sousaphone, contra, etc. French Horn players also typically play mellophone. Sax specialists typically learn to play all of the instruments in the sax family, same with clarinet and flute.</p>

<p>Now as to whether you want to pay extra to have records of classes on your transcript. Personally, I think “no way”. Unless the classes would fullfill some type of curriculum criteria of course. I think that maybe I might would even consider pursing finding another student to take lessons from on a secondary instrument.</p>

<p>Please excuse me if you think that my ideas are flaky, or if I just don’t understand the classical music world (I’m definately not a musician and I admit I don’t understand musicians or the music industry), but lot of times I think that classical musicians tend to be a little too “la te da” and would be happier if they were more open to a variety of ideas. Sorry, I know I have offended someone, didn’t mean to though.</p>

5

<p>Thanks, imagep, that’s a good suggestion. My daughter is at Juilliard where they don’t have the kind of classes you describe. I think she really does want private lessons with a violist with the goal of refining her viola technique. She can already play viola (violinists tend to love playing viola) but as stradmom says, there are technique differences. Also, she plays only chamber music, not rep, so learning some rep would be another goal. It’s true that band instruments are in a different world from string instruments. Yet, violinists do play viol and vice-versa. Some of the best violin teachers in our hometown are violists by training and trade. And some of the best professional violinists we know like to sneak around as violists on the side. </p>

<p>BassDad, those are all good points. It’s great that your daughter was able to take all of those supplementary lessons! </p>

<p>Stradmom, we do have several other violists in the house. I don’t think my daughter will be switching instruments but she does want to learn the bow technique, just as you say. By the way, I met your Bard daughter’s viola teacher recently at an event. What a lovely person!</p>

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<p>I won’t name the school, but my son and I had an interesting experience at one college’s music conservatory when he was looking at colleges in his senior year of high school. This particular son wanted to be (and is currently) an engineering major, but he was intent on continuing his string lessons (intentionally vague for privacy) and playing in his college’s top ensemble. He’s plays at a very high level, so he wanted to check out music teachers and lesson possibilities at all potential colleges.</p>

<p>Well, at this one college, the music professor that teaches on my son’s instrument suggested that my son take lessons with him on the outside of the university – as in private lessons not associated with the school. The prof said my son COULD take lessons with him ON the record and pay the big bucks. But in my son’s case, he recommended that he take private lessons with him instead, so that he could save the money AND the credit hours! At that school, my son could still play in the ensemble as long as he could successfully audition. (The added benefit was that he would keep could take more credit hours in engineering classes to take full advantage of scholarships if the music classes weren’t on his record.)</p>

<p>I was kind of surprised by this offer. The prof seemed very upfront. He’s the head of that particular department. He’s an excellent, pretty well-known musician. He’s impressive as a human being, too. So, I’m GUESSING that what he offered is standard enough, at least for that school. But it seemed like there might have been some conflict of interest issues there. I mean, isn’t the school kind of losing out each time this prof makes this offer? Or is that widely done and acceptable? After all, it’s this prof’s business who he takes on for private lessons, right?</p>

<p>Well, I throw out our personal experience because, IF this is widely done, perhaps your D could get the same exact lesson experience for the lower, private lesson price by taking advantage of the viola prof’s private studio.</p>

<p>In my family, money is always tight. Everybody’s different. Personally, I would NOT pay the $300/hour when my kid could get the same thing for significantly less. Every private studio my kids have been associated with has had some sort of studio classes and performance opportunities. Granted, they probably won’t be up to par with college-level studio classes. But for a secondary instrument, they should be adequate, imo.</p>

<p>Also, think of what she could do with the extra money that you DIDN’T spend on $300/hr lessons! Study abroad? Summer programs? </p>

<p>Finally, it doesn’t seem like it’d be that important to have this secondary instrument on her transcript. With anything she pursues in the future – summer programs, scholarships, grad school, jobs, she will likely turn in a resume’ or fill out an application listing her other musical experience. They’ll know, via those vehicles, that she rounded herself out with this secondary instrument. There’s no need for it to be on a transcript. Besides, if she were ever to audition on this secondary instrument, I would think that nobody would care whether she had private lessons or college-credit lessons. They would just care whether or not she can play!</p>

<p>It’s great that she wants to learn another instrument! (FWIW, I also agree with stradmom re consideration for the potential can of worms …)</p>

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<p>I kind of wonder about if having a second instrument on the transcripts will do much, except maybe if they try to apply to a formal music school as a teacher and want to say they can teach viola as well as violin. Conventional wisdom is it is never bad to be able to play the viola as a violinist, gigs for viola in some ways can be easier then the violin if that fewer people play the viola as their main instrument, so there is probably value to the lessons. As I see it, the real difference might be in the studio class and possibly a recital (though I have the impression they don’t allow recitals for second instruments like that, could be wrong). The thing about NYC is there are a lot of good private viola teachers who probably could teach your D, and it would be a lot cheaper. Obviously, there is the convenience factor of having a group of Viola students at Juilliard, but is it worth 300 bucks an hour, when you prob can get private lessons for a lot less then that from some really good teachers? (put it this way, I have heard that is what top musicians, like CM’s of the major orchestras, charge private students)</p>

8

<p>Given that she’s already shared a home with violists and has only partially succumbed to the allure of the C string tells me she’s probably a confirmed violinist. </p>

<p>Given that she has chosen to play the viola for fun tells me that she is clearly a highly evolved human being with excellent taste and discrimination.</p>

<p>Given that she recognizes the different technical demands of the two instruments tells me that she’s highly intelligent and pays attention to her musical environment (just in case the Juilliard pedigree hadn’t tipped me off!).</p>

<p>But in all seriousness, glassharmonica, does she really have the time to do this? I know it’s like hanging out with the cool kids in middle school (let’s be honest: violists are sooooo much more relaxed than are violinists) and really, there’s not much hazing at all. But is she really facing hours of free time where she’s looking for something to practice because she’s already mastered all the violin rep? Might this work out better as a summer project?</p>

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<p>From what I am told and have wittnesed, most musicians can learn to play an additional instrument in a very short period of time with a modist amount of effort and be fairly decent at it. </p>

<p>My son is a trumpet player but was playing grade 4-5 music after only two months of piano lessons and grade 7-8 after a year. I’m talking a half hour to an hour a day of practice, and I think that he is a better musician for doing so. the second instrument is like a break and stress reliever for him.</p>

<p>Never fear too many skills. Fear the lack of them.</p>

10

<p>

LOL, Stradmom. Touche!</p>

<p>

She tends to go away in the summer, although she is looking into shorter programs this year so she can spend some time at home. But it’s hard to find a top-level teacher in the summer because they are all usually away traveling to festivals. All good advice, though. And, yes, she is super-busy, although she is also one of those kids who thrives on being busy. She has two teachers for her major instrument right now (split studio) and has to prepare different rep for each of them. She often has lessons with Teacher A’s TA (a great violinist in her own right) so that’s giving her the opportunity to bounce her musical ideas off of three mentors. If she adds a viola teacher, it would be with a mind towards capitalizing on the chance for studying with someone terrific (I hope!) at a great institution…but of course she could always take lessons with a stay-at-home pre-college level teacher during the summer weeks she is here and would certainly be able to learn a lot. Lots to think about.</p>