Seeking profile of kids who do well far from home

<p>If he received the full tuition offer from Westminster, then there are many other merit aid packages available to him at other schools. Perhaps more investigation is needed to uncover options. Has he thought about neuroscience? It fits in quite well with your description of his preferences and is cutting edge at many schools.</p>

<p>Lealdragon, when it comes to assessing "readiness" to go away to college: my kids couldn't wait to leave. I went out of state to college myself, at age 16, and remember feeling the same thing. There never was any question that I or my kids would go off to a distant college. High school graduation was a natural transition and rite of passage, which was supposed to be followed with a move away to a 4-year college. </p>

<p>However, I think the fact that you are a homeschooler explains why your son's transition seems to be happening in a different way. Although I've met homeschoolers on this board whose kids are attending traditional 4-year colleges, I don't know hardly any "in real life" who have followed that route. Almost all of the homeschoolers I know seem to transition to college somewhat the way your son is doing -- the kids start attending community college sometime around age 14 or so, following a leisurely pace, and then they tend to stick with part-time college and work, and ultimately get their degrees through non-traditional college program geared to working adults or via local colleges. </p>

<p>I think that homeschooled kids simply see themselves, their education, and their relationship to their family differently. It is neither good nor bad -- just different -- and a natural result of the way they were raised. The "full college experience" that you now envision for your son is kind of like the "full high school" or "full elementary school" experience that you decided to walk away from before. While other kids learned to see school as something of a package deal, your son learned to see his education as something more individualized and self-directed. While other kids learned to define themselves mostly in the context of their relationships with same-age peers, homeschooled kids are raised to place more importance on their role within the family. </p>

<p>So why would a kid who was spared the experience of spending years sitting in classrooms with 30 other same-age kids suddenly want to fly off somewhere and live in crowded conditions in a dorm filled with same-age kids (who, by the way, are likely to be spending a lot of time experimenting with drinking and drugs) -- in order to followed a prescribed program of course work leading to a specific degree? </p>

<p>To my kids, it seems like the most natural thing in the world to do --- they've never known education except in the context of a structured group experience, and of course they want to be with a large group of kids their own age: that is how they were raised. But to a homeschooled kid like your son, it seems kind of odd.... why would he want to give up a good job, his great relationship with his family, and his enjoyment of exploring college classes of his own choosing, at his own pace, for a distant group-think adventure with strangers? </p>

<p>So the "normal" path of graduation from high school followed immediately by a a distant, residential 4-year-college isn't so normal for a homeschooler. </p>

<p>I honestly think you should back off and let your son find his own way. He seems to be doing a great job of it so far. There is no particular need for him to make a change at age 18, because his homeschooled life isn't bounded by grades or a formal graduation. His electic and varied interests also are good evidence that he's not quite ready to settle down and focus on one thing in his education -- he may have better opportunities in the long run if he defers making a college decision until he's got a clearer sense of what it is he really wants to study in depth. Unlike his schooled counterparts, there is no particular reason for him to stick to set timetable for college apps -- if not this year, next year will do. One thing may just lead to another and make things more clear to him as time goes on. </p>

<p>One more thing: generally, if you get mail from a college you never heard of offering a full tuiton scholarship, the mail belongs in the recycling bin. Colleges that offer that sort of money to students who haven't even applied simply need students like your son a lot more than he needs them. Yes, it is worth considering -- but I'll bet if he looks at the course catalog at Westminster and compared it to the course catalog at UT he's going to see that there is a big difference. It's kind of like a coupon for free french fries at McDonalds.... if you are hungry and happen to be driving by the fast food outlet, you might as well redeem that coupon .... but you can't compare that packet of fries to the offerings at the all-you-can-eat buffet nor to a homecooked meal at Thanksgiving. </p>

<p>It would be different if Westminster was a college your son had his eye on anyway, or if they just happened to offer a program of study in a field that your son knew he wanted to major in. But that's not the case -- they've offered the money, which is great, but so far they haven't answered the question, "why in the world would your son WANT Westminster?"</p>

<p>I think your considering important things - but perhaps a bit prematurely. I'd encourage him to apply to a mix of schools. </p>

<p>When acceptances are all in, and financial aid is all on the table, the choices may be narrowed. </p>

<p>It also gives him and extra 5 months to think about it and grow too.</p>

<p>I agree with weenie--you have done your homework to come up with some good fits, so for now why not wait and see how it all plays out before writing off your options? It is very normal to have second thoughts when considering something like moving away from home...</p>

<p>I also had some major concerns when my S decided to go to school 1500 miles away--my situation is somewhat different in that he has Asperger's so transitions can be especially difficult for him, along with making friends, figuring out all the red tape/administrative issues, etc. We both knew he would be better off closer to home where he could get more immediate support if needed. Last winter he had already been accepted at both the state university and a small LAC known for having good LD services, both of which were only 15 miles from home (and also very safe matches). He had never shown any interest in applying to out-of-state schools except for a few reaches (Stanford, Northwestern) and finally decided not to apply to those (whew!), and generally was pretty clueless about the entire college selection and application process and more than willing to stop looking once he was admitted to the state university (good school, good engineering program, he liked the campus and was very comfortable with the idea of going there). I periodically ran a few smaller out of state schools by him that I thought would be better matches than the large state school or the LAC that he did not like and did not offer his major (would have needed to do 3-2), but nothing really interested him, until he looked into Northeastern in Boston, and then he finally became very excited about college (we thought their co-op program would suit his learning style better-he is very smart (770 Math SAT) but not brainy and not across the board (580 Verbal SAT), and very much a hands-on learner), and this ended up being the only OOS he applied to. We did not even visit until after he was accepted and he fell in love with the school. He received a decent scholarship that brought down the cost close to the state school, so that's where he ended up despite all my reservations--and so far he is adjusting very well! (joined 2 bands and the cycling team, has made many friends, and is doing well in all his classes). "Fit" wins hands down...</p>

<p>wow, Calmom, you have really hit the nail on the head! Everything you said is really thought-provoking. You are exactly right! I think maybe I was seeing this in terms of 'well he missed the school experience, which is fine because he didn't want that, but the college experience is a good thing and not to be missed' - in other words, if you ask any conventionally student what s/he thinks of school and some like it, some love it, but many hate it. Whereas, the college years tend to be looked upon more fondly, probably because college was chosen whereas h.s. was mandatory. So maybe I have it in my head that it is a desirable thing and he 'should' have the opportunity to experience it.</p>

<p>You are right - it's time to back off and that's what I am now doing. He was giving me so many mixed signals that I just didn't know how to proceed. All I really wanted to know from him was whether he intended to apply for any other schools; since, after all, those deadlines are coming up and he'd have to start on the process soon. Every time I mentioned it just blowing it all off and just going to UTSA, he'd emphatically say 'No! I DO want to consider other schools!'</p>

<p>So finally I said to him yesterday: If you want to consider other schools, then let's spend 20-30 minutes and look at the book and narrow it down to 3 or 4 and then get your essays done over the next couple months, send in the apps, and then forget about it til spring, when you'll know which ones you got accepted to and how much fin. aid you'll get. If we talk about just that much right now, confront it, then you won't have it looming over you and you can just forget about it.</p>

<p>So he finally agreed to do that and actually found himself getting interested in a couple of oos schools. We narrowed it down, he knows he has a few essays to write, and now seems a bit relieved.</p>

<p>I honestly don't see him going off to another state. UT still seems to be the best all-around fit. He shouldn't have any trouble getting accepted, I would think, but they are SO competitive now I do want him to have at least 1 backup plan.</p>

<p>Anyway, now that we have an action plan, I am taking your advice, Calmom, and I am not saying another word. If he doesn't get his essays done, then I guess that will decide it! It's now up to him.</p>

<p>But your wise and perceptive words have really helped clarify things for me - so thanks for taking the time to write all that!</p>

<p>Thanks to everyone else too!</p>

<p>In my younger days, I turned down a full ride offer to an out of state college to live at home and go to the local college. Sometimes I wonder what would have happened had I gone away to college--but I think I knew myself well enough to realize that I just wasn't ready to fly the coop just yet.</p>

<p>Fast forward 3 years, with degree in hand, I was ready to go away! </p>

<p>PS: D was adamant that she would go away to college...and she did--all the way across the country from home.</p>

<p>
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wow, Calmom, you have really hit the nail on the head! Everything you said is really thought-provoking. You are exactly right!

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As a charter member of the calmom fan club, I can tell you that she has an uncanny knack for exactly this. She cuts right through to the heart of the matter so often, and with insight uncluttered by whatever direction the rest of us might be flailing around in.
[quote]
One more thing: generally, if you get mail from a college you never heard of offering a full tuiton scholarship, the mail belongs in the recycling bin. Colleges that offer that sort of money to students who haven't even applied simply need students like your son a lot more than he needs them. Yes, it is worth considering -- but ...

[/quote]
And I have to add that this particular thought occurred to me from my very first reading of this thread, but I guess I was hesitant to say it or thought I might be dismissing such an offer too quickly.</p>

<p>While I agree with calmom's analysis, I'm not sure I agree with what should be encouraged given the situation. If a child has not experienced many of the situations the vast majority of children have, might it be time to gently push him out of the nest for a broader experience in the real world?</p>

<p>My 14 year old had a home schooled girl in her dorm at a summer program this year. DD was impressed by how bright she was and looked forward to knowing her better, but the girl didn't last a week. She was homesick and couldn't manage her time to get the work done, she had always done her work at leisure. Her mother had sent a fax machine to school with her as she was accustomed to running all work by mom.</p>

<p>I think the OP's original belief that her son deserved a typical college experience has merit. In my mind it's time for him to see how the rest of the world lives and learn to get along in it. There are all kinds of issues he will face in real world competition if he has a sked view of how the world operates. </p>

<p>Will he ever be comfortable picking up and moving for a great job offer or for someone he loves? I'm afraid that not encouraging kids to leave their safety zones while young limits their lives later.</p>

<p>...raising my hand</p>

<p>Well I don't think one needs to fly across the country to avoid a skewed view of the world - that is actually a luxury that most college students do not experience, and in fact, UT would be the way to "gently" push this particular student out of the nest (hundreds of miles away is NOT gentle!) Yet, even when we think our offspring are not quite ready to test their wings so far from home they can and often do surprise us at how well they adapt (my AS son being an extreme example). But bottom line, it has to be their decision to take that leap (and decide how far to leap) if they are truly going to benefit from it. </p>

<p>On the other hand, and in hindsight, I would have loved for someone to have encouraged me to attend college farther from home than my commuter state school...</p>

<p>The kid that does well is the kids that REALLY wants to go away. D was shy, and although had good friends, she was not the popular type of kid, and very fussy about who she made friends with. I was concerned when she said she loved the East Coast, and wanted to go to school there. But it was what she wanted, and although the only one from her school to attend her college, she is doing what she did here - she is still fussy about her friends, but she is opening up and having a great time, having made a good bunch of close friends!</p>

<p>ejr, I think you are exactly right. Now that I've made it clear to him that he CAN pursue some other options if he wants to (whereas before we thought that the UT or UTSA were the ONLY options because of cost) then I will leave it up to him. If he doesn't pursue it, then it's obviously not for him.</p>

<p>I was feeling frustrated because for awhile he kept telling me he wanted to consider other options but wouldn't take the time to talk about it with me to see what those other options were (in terms of what's possible due to cost etc.) Now that he's finally better I can feel better that I did my part. The rest is up to him.</p>

<p>"If a child has not experienced many of the situations the vast majority of children have, might it be time to gently push him out of the nest for a broader experience in the real world?"</p>

<p>Yes, that is my concern too. You guys are great! But so much to consider: and I keep vascillating - sometimes I think he so obviously NEEDS to get away from home, he is SO ready, then other times I think it would be a huge mistake.</p>

<p>Thanks, zagar (oops, was that your userid?) for understanding my concern about how much to nudge him out of the nest. That is exactly why I was so insistent that he at least CONSIDER the oos schools - how can he decide on something he knows nothing about? I am a big believer in making an INFORMED decision.</p>

<p>My stance was, spend some time reading the college books and researching the ones that sound interesting, before you rule them out. I didn't want him saying to me a couple of years from now 'But Mom, why didn't you insist that I consider some other schools?'</p>

<p>That said, I do really appreciate you insights, zagar, but I would like to point out that us homeschoolers do consider our children to have a grasp of the 'real world.' In many ways conventional schools are not representative of the 'real world' and our kids, while missing out on the school experience, do often get to experience other things at much deeper levels than conventionally schooled kids.</p>

<p>I don't want to turn this into a homeschool debate, but I just wanted to point that out because it is such a pervasive myth that homeschooled kids just sit at home all day, and miss out on the 'real world.' I hope I'm saying this the way it is intended! That is true of some homeschooled kids, unfortunately, but healthy homeschooling, imo, seeks many diverse experiences for the kids.</p>

<p>My son has had a lot of experience in the 'real world' but has NOT had experience in college life. And I think that's very valuable. I chose to homeschool him but had always assumed that he'd go to college and have that experience. In fact, I completely disagree with people that try to 'homeschool' college! Yes, no kidding! (I have no idea how they do that, but I think that completely takes away what college is all about.) I think that is going WAY too far!</p>

<p>I do agree with your point, zagar, that taking that leap, having that courage to try something new and start a new life, can be very healthy. So I do understand and agree with your point. </p>

<p>I also agree with everyone else who said the decision has to be his, and that UT might accomplish just that in a gentle way. But, there are some really cool schools that he might do really well in...ah, I just keep going round and round! I am just trying to find the balance between encouragement and being too pushy. That's what I'm finding difficult.</p>

<p>I think now that he's looked at the other colleges, I'm going to back off and let him decide. I mainly wanted him to at least look at them. If he expresses interest, I am going to support him. It's hard because he stresses out too much when making such a big decision. I want to spare him that stress and pressure, but I know I can't do that. He has to go thru it and decide on his own. Once he gets clarity on something, though, he really gets determined, and nearly always has a major breakthrough. So I have to trust that he WILL make the right decision.</p>

<p>Sounds like the next step, if at all possible, is a college tour. reading about schools is one thing, but visiting is essential in my view. Sounds like he has a good job and may be able to save some money to help pay.</p>

<p>I must say I totally agree with the posters who say to take those free offers from little heard of colleges lightly. If they're offering money, chances are better schools will too. Focus on the colleges you and he are interested in, not the one's that spend 50 cents in their own best interest.</p>

<p>One thought on the "profile" issue - I think that those who thrive in a new and different culture are typically those who are enthusiastic about immersing themselves in campus life outside the classroom. As a college administrator, I can certainly profile the ones who are derailed by homesickness and disconnection; our primary objective is to get them out of their rooms and connect them with others. But one can get disconnected by size as well as by distance - if he winds up looking toward UT-Austin, I'd have him pick some extracurriculars and communicate with their student officers and faculty advisors in advance.</p>

<p>I mean this in a respectful way. If your son can hardly resist free tuition from Westminster College, he badly needs to do college visits. As a smart URM, he could have opportunities at many, many schools. Good schools. Maybe you can focus less on location and more on finding a great school with a great fit.</p>

<p>I can't add much but I will throw in a free thought....</p>

<p>If the current peer group isn't as intellectually challenging as it could be.... if the girls he dates aren't as intellectually challenging as they could be.... if he didn't have a group of peers to debate and argue with in HS.... he's not getting the social support to go away to school as a kid who went to HS would have gotten. Not saying that's a bad thing.... but that his orientation isn't towards the same "get me out of dodge" attitude that many bright kids have by the end of HS.</p>

<p>So-- if it were my kid I'd be a little more proactive than some of the other posters are suggesting. He's not hearing about nifty colleges in Illinois and Georgia that his friends are exploring.... so he's not neccessarily asking himself the right questions.</p>

<p>For sure life is full of trade-offs, and going out of state would involve many of them.... and he already knows what the downsides are. But does he know the upsides??? For every potential roommate who'll be drinking and carousing and staying up too late for his liking there will be a potential best friend who will introduce him to great books and movies that he's never heard of.... or encourage him to explore a scientific discipline he's not aware of that combines the things he loves already.</p>

<p>Just something to think about.</p>

<p>Might I suggest one other "fall back" option just in case? If finances don't work out, he will have a choice of UTAustin or UTSA/living at home. Might it be possible to look at an inbetween safety option? Pick one other school within say 4-5 hours of SA where he can get good merit aid as a National Hispanic Scholar/Bright URM. Texas State for instance would give him good merit aid, UTDallas is big for more technical fields and has good merit money for bright URMs, Maybe Baylor would be for him. Trinity isn't so good on merit aid from what I understand but you need to talk with them personally. He could easily live on campus at those schools and get the college experience. It wouldn't take a lot more work on his part to add one school like that on his list just in case things don't work out at UTAustin. Kids who go to schools that don't rank (mostly privates) and home schooled kids are having an increasingly tougher time getting in although his Natn Hispanic Recognition ups his value to them considerably. That way, come April, he should have three to choose from if being out of state or merit aid doesn't work.</p>

<p>Also, remeber that full time is just 12 hours at Austin. He could easily do 4 courses and still work, lots of kids do. He may have to cut back work hours some but I really don't think he would have much trouble working if he kept to 12-13 hours.</p>

<p>Of course the main drawback of living at home esp if attending a large university is still the potential lack of ECs and disconnectedness to the campus and with other students/faculty. Commuting to a university rather than a CC may result in more challenging classes but does not come close to a "true" college experience and it is much easier to just stay in one's comfort zone (been there, done that).</p>

<p>“If your son can hardly resist free tuition from Westminster College, he badly needs to do college visits.”</p>

<p>I’m the one who told him a year ago to limit his options to schools in Texas, since I didn’t think it would be possible for him to go out of state. So when that letter came, we were both surprised to realize that it was even possible. I wish I had known about this forum a year ago; maybe I wouldn’t have limited his dreams unnecessarily. What’s happening right now is that suddenly a new world of possibilities has opened up. We will definitely focus on finding the right fit. But, if it’s an out-of-state school, just getting the $$ for the visit is a stretch for us right now, so we’ll have to choose carefully – won’t be able to visit too many of those.</p>

<p>Please excuse my ignorance, but what is URM?</p>

<p>gadad: Your comments are well received! One of the main reasons he wants to go to UT is for the activism and vibrant social scene. I don’t think he’ll be homesick at all if he goes there. He is already very comfortable in Austin since he’s been there so much. Every time we are there he just wants to be a part of it. And, he’d be living in the co-op with about 20 other students, so he’ll have an instant circle of friends. (They cook their own meals and share a big house, so it’s really cool.) It’s going out-of-state that I am concerned about. Just learning to deal with snow will be a major change! It’s just a much more drastic step than moving on his own to Austin. </p>

<p>“...so he's not neccessarily asking himself the right questions...he already knows what the downsides are. But does he know the upsides???”</p>

<p>Right on. No, he’s not, and no, he doesn’t. Where can I direct him to find out the upsides, so that he can ask the right questions? Thanks, and I agree that it’s something to think about.</p>

<p>Keepmesane: Good idea – we will do that!</p>

<p>“Of course the main drawback of living at home esp if attending a large university is still the potential lack of ECs and disconnectedness ...(been there, done that).”</p>

<p>That’s exactly what I am concerned about if he goes to UTSA, even if it’s only for a semester or 2. I wonder whether it’ll really be that much different than the cc. Anything you’d like to share about your experience?</p>