Having Doubts

<p>Are any of you parents having doubts that your child is mature enough to go to a college out of state? After watching mine go through this application process, I am being to doubt mine is truly ready. Reasons being, watching him struggle with deadlines and his organization skills with his applications. I really had no idea he was so unorganized and such a procrastinator. He is always pushing deadlines and doing things at the last minute. He would forget his head if it was not attached to his neck.</p>

<p>I am wondering if we should rethink things and keep him in state, give him time to get it together and grow up. He could always transfer after two years, maybe then he will have it together a bit more.</p>

<p>Offers are beginning to come in with merit awards and honors invites, I am so worried. On paper he looks fabulous, but I just don't know if he will be able to get it together with his life skills.</p>

<p>So if he's getting those merit award and honors invites...(you should see the other kids...:eek:)</p>

<p>Snowwhite, I can remember back to the same thoughts for different reasons about this time last year. What did I come to realize? It's time. Speaking of someone as capable as your son (as mini points out, more capable than most ) , they've got to go. Whether that means falling on their face, they've got to go. Have confidence in your raising and confidence in them. Don't unintentionally clip their wings. </p>

<p>(Now if you had specific issues and history , that's a different story and those needs may very well have to be addressed from arm's reach, but for the majority of the high achievers, it's time.)</p>

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He is always pushing deadlines and doing things at the last minute.

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<p>Nothing abnormal here; this is normal teenage stuff, mind you. From my experience many kids, particularly boys, are not quite ready for college at 17 or 18. However, you'll never know this unless you let them try.</p>

<p>I'd say, let him attend his out-of-state school, but set some requirements; i.e. make up an agreement that he must keep a 3.0 GPA or wait until sophomore year to pledge, have a car on campus, etc. Make sure it's in writing and that you both sign it.</p>

<p>Reevalute his performance after the first semester. If he's not living up to his end of the bargain, set a time limit i.e. "you must get all A's and B's this semester or you'll have to transfer closer to home".</p>

<p>On the other hand, he may prove to be a very responsible kid left on his own. You will never know this unless you let him be on his own. I say give the boy a chance.</p>

<p>But how would things be different if your son were to attend an in-state college? He would still have deadlines to meet and assignments to organize. You can't do those things for him, no matter how close or far away he is. </p>

<p>Maybe going further away would force him to pull it together a bit more. Personal organization and time management skills are things that everyone has to learn sooner or later, and you can't watch over his shoulder to check he's meeting deadlines forever. He might mature faster if he had to think on his feet a bit.</p>

<p>Since we are talking about boys and I used to be one, I've decided to be more direct :eek:. Time to tell him that going away to college is like wearing big boy pants instead of diapers. If he craps in his college pants nobody is gonna change them and he'll be wearing them for a long time. There. That ought to do it. ;)</p>

<p>I appreciate all of your comments, and welcome your support and advise. We have left him alone through out his entire high school experience, we have always believed that it was important for him to be in charge of his work, not us. We have not coddled him at all. This is why I am so shocked to find out how unorganized he is! </p>

<p>My main reason for thinking about keeping him in state would be for the expense. If he needs more time, maybe it would be a better option.</p>

<p>Am I off track?</p>

<p>Adding this new insight: I'm thinking there's something uniquely awful about the aps process for kids, because it represents moving on to them and they're deeply scared inside, even while they claim they are eager to go. So the procrastination worsens over these apps.</p>

<p>I wouldn't have thought so until I watched how some college seniors struggled and procrastinated over their grad school apps. Here, they've already been handling themselves admirably for 4 years, out-of-state and away from home, taking care of academics and domestic responsibilities.</p>

<p>But that grad school app...caused a kind of emotional regression in some, and they didn't handle it as neatly as they've learned to handle their college papers, vacation travel plans and all that.</p>

<p>Maybe the thought of moving forward causes people to become childish and dependent. </p>

<p>Also consider that the actual departure to college will be another half-year from this date, during which time you can really emphasize a few domestic and organizational skills.</p>

<p>With each of ours, we had a BRIEF, NON-JUDGMENTAL chat when nobody was upset about anything about academics in college. We explained that the biggest difference was that in college, nobody would wake them up or even know if they'd woken up, so every responsibility to attend class is in their own domain. There are no more "attendance officers." THe biggest factor for doing well in many classes is regular attendance, but that's all theirs. If they want to do college the easy way, go to every class; if they want to make it hard on themselves, start skipping classes...they'll quickly see the difference.</p>

<p>Secondly, the professors give out a syllabus at the beginning of the term with exam dates on it and major papers, plus readings. Nobody "checks" whether you read the assignments, but it'll let you understand the lecture l00% better if you've read up. Wait and try to read all at the end, to cram, and you'll find all the books taken out of the library that week, and even if you get them, you'll be scrambling to make sense of your notes.</p>

<p>High school teachers have a habit of reminding kids of upcoming quizzes with blackboard notes, verbal reminders, etc...but once the prof has published his dates, he doesn't have to say another word. Maybe he'll mention it in the class before, maybe not...but he doesn't "have" to. It's the student's responsbility to mark up his planner or calendar or PDA (personal data assistant? those little machines everybody uses...) at the start of the term with all the calendar dates from the syllabuses of all the courses. </p>

<p>Some schools mention this at orientation or give a freshman seminar to help students transition to college academia, but not all do.</p>

<p>But if he used a planner through h.s., he has the basic tools and habits to keep up with this. So build on his strengths and knowledge rather than tear him down. He'll simply extend the h.s. planner into a college-based system. </p>

<p>Most helpful is to equip him with the tools to succeed, rather than say he never could. Around this time senior year, my son bought his first PDA and learned to use it while at home, so it became his best friend at college.</p>

<p>Make it funny, but have a laundry-learning seminar one weekend in the coming months.</p>

<p>Above all, realize that the SAME ISSUES will confront him, whether he's instate or out-of-state. Please let him study where he feels most eager to study, then give him a few more tools, then let him go.</p>

<p>At freshman orientation at one of our schools, the dean said to all parents, "Once this year they will screw up royally, so expect it." I felt much sorrier for parents who learned that their kid had driven while drunk than I did for myself to learn one of mine flubbed a deadline and got a C in a freshman course.</p>

<p>I also have something to add: consider yourself lucky you're not this kid's parent:</p>

<p><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070207/ap_on_fe_st/chilly_stunt;_ylt=ApzWycnVUd_rpXB9ZPXhjvrMWM0F%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070207/ap_on_fe_st/chilly_stunt;_ylt=ApzWycnVUd_rpXB9ZPXhjvrMWM0F&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>My first thought - have you expressed these thoughts to him? I'm wondering if he's feeling any different - might help you to actually hear his prospective...</p>

<p>I'll take a different point of view than some of the others on this thread - yes, going away (whereever he chooses) will give him responsibility and his choices will determine his fate (with grades, money, work etc.) But if he is closer to home (maybe a couple of hours away rather than a state or two away) it DOES make a difference - he can come home more easy to get advice, touch base. You can more easily visit him and help him keep motivated, give advice (sorry, know we have phones etc. but nothing replaces face-to-face contact)etc. </p>

<p>I think it's also foolish thinking to think that bam! kids turn 18 and they should be thrown out the door with all consequences to be faced on their own. College brings a lot of changes and challenges - many kids can and will succeed, but many may be slapped in the face with all the changes - and not handle it well. </p>

<p>Just another point of view...</p>

<p>you might want to read the other thread about going away also gap years.</p>

<p>If they really aren't ready for college- interest wise- I think a gap year to explore and grow can be more beneficial than limiting schools by geography</p>

<p>But if he is doing well- even if you can't stand to watch the process, it sounds like he has found a way that works for him-</p>

<p>We learn more from our mistakes than our successes, I say give him the choice.</p>

<p>p.s. on the planner: we also suggested to our kids that they post a large paper calendar on their dorm walls to see weeks and months ahead, blocking off all their vacation breaks etc. and major course deadlines. This gives themt the "long view" which is sometimes hard to know just by looking at the daily PDA. This can be done together as you set up the dorm room.</p>

<p>As has already been said, having seniors who procrastinate and are disorganized with college applications is pretty common. Kids do a lot of growing up in a short period of time. I think you will be amazed at how fast they mature, especially after the first semester of college. The problem is not your kid, but your level of concern. All parents know what that is like. For years we try to look out for them, set limits, and help them grow up. It is difficult to turn loose.</p>

<p>Not useful to the OP, but I think a problem is assuming <em>at the beginning of high school</em> that it's the student's responsibility for being in charge of all their own work is often unrealistic. The goal in development of independence is to have students self-sustaining when they leave high school, not necessarily when they enter. As the parent who picked up D from school and took her to ballet, I had a daily catechism. "What do you have for homework? How long do you think it'll take? (a non-trivial question with 18-20 hours/week devoted to dance) Etc. If necessary, we would move family stuff around to make sure she had the time & resources to do what she needed to do. By the time she was a senior, my major job was to run interference when TheMom was squawking about D needing to get to bed when she was still working on her calculus homework...by that time, she <em>was</em> in charge of her program and she made the transition to college pretty well.</p>

<p>However, all that said...she was far less on top of her applications than she was her school work. About the essays, in particular, there seemed to be a kind of a paralysis at times. I mostly kept my distance but would occasionally remind about deadlines, etc. At this instant I don't remember what the exact issue was but we had one five-minute dialog wherein my answer to a question unblocked her on an essay that had been lying fallow for six weeks. </p>

<p>I think it's important to remember, that unlike high school, which can be an over-stifling protected environment, the college application is for many of our students the first time in their lives that they are playing with live life-shaping ammunition...and they're aware of it. So even a fairly together kid may have moments of doubt, moments of pause, moments of dealing by not dealing.</p>

<p>I think the object in that case is to coach and coax them through it if necessary, not taking over with heavy reins.</p>

<p>X-posted. EDad gives the shorter version.</p>

<p>The learning curve between the beginning of senior year and leaving for college is essentially straight up. You - the OP - have said that your guys has pretty much done alot on his own and done well thru high school - that will most likely not change as he leaves for college :) Give him the support he needs - the guidance he needs - and then cross your fingers - he will do ok - it is a part of the process.</p>

<p>I also had a 'young' high school grad leaving for college at 17 - couldn't boil water without burning it - kinda unorganized in some things - but given the chance/opportunity to be a college freshman - and far from home - she did rise to the occassion for the most part - she did fall on her keesta a couple of times - but she learned from those experiences and moved on and did well.</p>

<p>Give your guy the benefit of the doubt - it sure sounds as tho he has great potential to do well - even tho what you see during this college process may say otherwise - he has the tools basically if he has gotten thru high school without you hovering and micro-managing - have faith - he will do ok :)</p>

<p>A major part of the learning process is failing at something. If you're honest with yourself, you'll admit that many of your own bad habits were cured by a disaster that could have been avoided with planning or attention. So it is for teenage boys (I have three). I learned to let them fail and suffer the consequences long before the college process. Even so, procrastination is their dominant operating system. I think they enjoy the rush and hyper-focus of last minute work. Planning is something that develops fairly late in some kids, and every new area of planning needs its own development sequence.</p>

<p>We have worked on mapping out blocks of time for homework and project activities, and at using downtime effectively. I have lots of little organizational tricks learned over the years that helped with the college process. But I want to assure you that an intelligent 17 year old who can't find his socks is not too young for an out-of-state college. Somehow, he'll get it together. It's amazing what a year or two, and plenty of lost socks, can do.</p>

<p>Curmudgeon, I loved your post!</p>

<p>When kids are living at home, no matter how hard we try not to be, we are their enablers. They've had 18 years of someone telling them to tie their shoes, pick up their underwear, write the thank you note, etc. There are established behaviors on both your parts, and the habits are hard to break. I know when my son is at school, he picks up his towels. But he sure as heck didn't used to at home. And even on breaks, he falls back into the old routine. By the time you see your son after his first term, he will be a changed person.</p>

<p>It's funny what we all do for ourselves, when there's no one else to do it for us.</p>

<p>Don't keep him in-state--and be wary of underlying motives in your desire to keep him closer. It' won't matter if you are three hours away or 24 hours away. He must learn these lessons on his own.</p>

<p>A major piece of cognitive dvelopment is missing in a 17 year old--the part that helps them understand consequences. When that piece settles in sometime before the age of 21, your son will take huge leaps in organization. Also, in my experience, the rise in testosterone betweent he ages of 16 and 21 helps boys to find the drive and ambition they need to reign in that 'spaciness'. Not completely however. My H loses things from time to time.</p>

<p>BTW, if you've ever seen the interview with Gates and Buffet, you will know that Buffet thinks Gates is a terrible procrastinator. Apparently Gates is continually getting dressed in the car when Buffet picks him up. Gates said he has improved substantially since getting married but Buffet shakes his head in disbelief when he hears that statement.</p>

<p>OP - you have given your guy wings - it is time to let him out of the nest to fly :)</p>

<p>Your concerns are perfectly normal BTW. And he sounds like a perfectly normal guy - as hard as it seems - it is time to let him go and to grow :)</p>

<p>Snowwhite, did it ever occur to you that your son may be one of those that do their best under pressure? Sure he is a procrastinator, and unorganized ( maybe according to yur standards?) but if he is getting merit awards and honors invites he must be doing something right.</p>