We have twin Ds that are starting college in the fall. They too are smart (not geniuses), very liberal (if not a bit sheltered), and not interested in sports or Greek life - also from PA. We looked at big and small schools from NY to DC, and ultimately they decided small, relatively local LACs were best for them. They got into all the schools they applied to, including Franklin & Marshall, Dickinson and Gettysburg for the one with less impressive stats.
They both were well aware of what it would likely cost if they fell in love with selective, prestigious schools, and they both ultimately chose places they felt good about from the first visit and the excellent merit they were offered. As a parent, I’m thrilled at the personal attention they will get, and have already received in the academic counseling provided both before and during orientation. Plus I’m happy their classes will be taught strictly by professors, and that the small class sizes will ensure the students are present and engaged.
One thing about such schools that I’m not ecstatic about is the focus on sports, albeit we’re talking Division III - 30% of students participate in a sport. Granted most of these athletes look like any other kid, but I’m just hopeful that my kids aren’t automatically excluding (or excluded from) those students as potential friends.
I agree with the suggestions to look into Muhlenberg and Ursinus, although you might also want to check out the U of Delaware - for a large school it had a smaller feel, and the honors program could make for a very special experience if she’s ready to declare a major early on.
@RandyErika do you mind sharing where they’re going? They sound like my daughter! She’s still too young to be looking seriously (finishing up freshman year), but I like to keep things in mind for the next couple of years!
@RandyErika Two of mine attended small LAC’s with a high percentage of kids involved in sports. It didn’t affect things a bit. Often the sports at the DIII level aren’t as year round all consuming as at the DI level. Child #2 had more of a problem with Greek life dominating the social scene. If you weren’t part of that scene you really had to work to find other activities on the weekends. Many of the colleges work very hard to help students find their group or groups. I’m sure your daughters will find their group. Good luck to everyone!
@NJWrestlingmom D1 will be attending Moravian College to study Graphic Design and English. Very few small LACs have a graphic design major, and she seems to have the passion, skill and intuition for it. Her stats place her well above most students there, but she felt at home right away, and that’s all I could hope for with that one.
D2 is going to Ursinus College to study English/Creative Writing and perhaps Psychology. She’s pretty well situated right at the median for test scores, which qualified her for their automatic $30k/year Gateway scholarship.
@beenthereanddone Thanks for the reassuring post. We were definitely more afraid of the places where Greek life appeared to dominate - no disrespect to anyone who’s looking for that kind of environment.
OP - sorry for the mini derail. But I’m definitely in the camp where fit and affordability are more important than prestige, especially when grad school is likely anyway.
Did all of you worry so much when choosing a high school that your children would be with students who might not take school so seriously, who might not be as naturally academically gifted? did you worry they wouldn’t find honors classes or be in chemistry with other hard working students while others were avoiding science altogether?
My daughter attends a lower ranked flagship. Plenty of parties, football, students who would rather be climbing a mountain than in class. She has no trouble finding friends who are not drawn to that, who want to study or attend the theater, or play video games. In her classrooms, she finds plenty of students who are much smarter than she is, who love to debate the smallest ideas of a book or play, who want to discuss history or art or architecture. She also finds students who haven’t had as many opportunities to know the world that she has, who might have a different view of farming or mining, politics, money. I don’t think any of them discuss ACT scores. Higher level courses are self sorting, and people who aren’t interested in the religions of the modern era don’t take it- just as my daughter doesn’t take advanced science or math classes.
I do agree students can find a cohort and thrive in any environment. I’m no helicopter parent, and my kids chased merit over prestige, but I will say I did worry about choosing a high school. When your zoned high school has a graduation rate of 67%, only half the students take a standardized test and the average SAT is 924, only 1/3 have ACT scores higher than 17, only 30% go on to a 2 or 4 year college, and very few AP classes are offered - and fewer take the tests, with abysmal passing rates - your do worry.
Any kids in these schools who are at all motivated fight to get into honors classes so they have a chance to actually learn something. It really isn’t an honors program anymore - it’s the students who want to learn vs. the students who are there because they are forced to be.
Most of the other schools in our county were similarly dismal (on a positive note, our property taxes are negligible!).
That’s why posters say go where you’re in the top of the pool, but be wary of being significantly above the top.
Without her standardized test scores, it’s hard to know what the sweet spot would be for your DD, in terms of fit and potential merit money.
It sounds like you’re in PA (as am I). UDel is a great school, but it will be very pricey for a Pennsylvanian unless she’s very high stat and attracts a rare merit award.
Penn State is huge, but in our experience, the cliche is true: It’s easier to make a big school small than make a small school large. It’s also easier to find a cohort of similarly smart, academically ambitious students in a large university. There will literally be THOUSANDS of students like your DD and even smarter. Once she finds her tribe, both in terms of major and extracurriculars, a large university will seem much smaller. Penn State is not inexpensive, however. If you’re near a branch campus, their 2+2 program is worth having a look at.
If you are in PA, also take a look at West Chester. They have an honors college and attract a lot of strong students who a decade ago would have headed to Penn State. Especially if she’s interested in teaching or another service profession, their grads do very well. It’s considerably smaller than Penn State, but still a decent size. And it’s much less expensive than Penn State in state.
While you’re looking, consider your DD’s strengths. My son originally wanted a small, elite LAC, but he found many of the schools we visited, including ones that offered him admission, to be underwhelming in their STEM offerings. (These include several schools suggested in this thread.) He ended up at a another big flagship where his stats are probably in the 95th percentile, but that five percent above him is off the charts due to merit money.
If I had a daughter I’d really encourage looking at strong women’s colleges. Bryn Mawr, Mount Holyoke, Scripps in CA, Agnes Scott in GA all offer some tremendous opportunities for bright young women.
My kid went to 3 different high schools and I had chosen a different one for them for 9th grade, but we moved right before they were to start. Because of the quick move and no time to research, I picked a Catholic school where 100% went to college, where the school provided test prep. The other two were public schools, the first 3400 students, the second 1800. Both had high percentages of military families so not everyone headed to colleges after hs.
I didn’t worry. My kids were hanging out in the honors and AP classes, even though only a few were offered. They had friends who didn’t go to college, didn’t even graduate.
OP here - I am not worried about prestige, per say…more like finding the right amount of challenge for her, but in an environment where she feels comfortable/fits in. I wondered if would be short changing her by not encouraging her to look at or maybe attend one of the high level schools. (But I don’t think she would get the merit at those and don’t know if we could not afford anyway.)
Her PSAT would equate to just over a 1300. So nothing crazy high. She just took the SAT and said she was surprised - she thought it would feel harder. So she either did really well…or really bad
We are in MD - U of MD is a good school, but 37,000 is a lot of students. And a lot of TAs teaching you. The appeal, to me, of a smaller LAC was the one on one oppty with professors. We discovered them when looking at schools for D1, who has ADD and said she couldn’t sit in a class with 100+ kids and pay attention.
We are talking a lot of money here to send our kids to college. And while I think she will do well in life no matter where she goes to school, because that is who she is, I still want to make sure we get the most bang for the buck (and I definitely think a happy, well adjusted kid is part of that bang!)
Have you considered St. Mary’s of Maryland? I always think of it as a public school with a small LAC feel. Not sure about how your D compares to the student body, or the academics on offer, but the place is described as a public honors college.
I was going to suggest St. Mary’s of Maryland too.
Public honors colleges can be a great value. SUNY Geneseo was a terrific value for OOS students interested in a liberal arts college experience when we were in the search phase a few years ago. The New College of Florida used to offer some nice merit packages too - although it’s VERY small. Truman State gets great reviews too.
I grew up in MD and graduated from the U of MD too long ago to be relevant (didn’t start there). My wife graduated from St. Mary’s of MD, again maybe too long ago to be helpful. But we did visit with our Ds during her last reunion - it’s in a beautiful setting along the St. Mary’s River. Whether it would have been a good academic fit or not, the girls were simply not feeling it. The in state cost is reasonable at under $30k, and it’s certainly small enough to get to know your professors very well. The surrounding area is not my ideal - perhaps a little too remote - but to each his own.
OP here. Daughter got a 1350 on her SATs (650 math/700). She wants to take again. I don’t know what her goal was/is but she wasn’t overly thrilled (she did not prep, so maybe she can get it up).
I would like to look at St. Mary’s and McDaniel. She is not too interested in anything looking at anything right now, but maybe once school starts up, the school will get the seniors motivated.
She’s a rising senior and doesn’t have a preliminary list of schools? No visits to local school or using online tools? Even to start thinking about size, location, etc.
Does she have any interest in applying to early or rolling schools? If so, September is a little late to start the process.
Not all schools require or accept the common app. My daughter’s school did, but it was free to just apply directly to the school on the online app and you had to pay if you used the common app.
OP, you need to make a preliminary list. Maybe your student will just apply to your flagship and be one and done.
She visited 3 schools this past spring (in my orig Post) and 2 others w her sister a couple of years ago. I don’t remember if my orig post said it - but so far, a smaller school. No idea about she wants to study
OP here - as I suspected, she got more in to the college search once her senior year started up. She did apply to our state flagship U of MD (without me even saying it), but says she REALLY does NOT want to go there (too big. And probably too close to home in her mind - 20 min).
In addition to the first 3 schools we visited - Juniata, Susquehanna, and U of Lynchburg - we also visited St. Mary’s of MD. Juniata and St. M’s are her top right now. Going to Dickinson this month. She also applied to (but we haven’t visited) McDaniel, F&M, and Lafayette.
Loved Dickinson, was a top contender for my D. Susquenna was on her safety list and she was accepted with good merit but not quite enough if I remember correctly. Dickinson provided a better package for us and was a favorite although she did end up choosing a different school. You might look at Mt Holyoke if she would consider a female college. If she gets her SAT up to 1400+ it’ll open up lots of merit opportunities and your list might change. Keep us posted.
