<p>"In a few subjects, AP courses are now available as early as ninth grade." He then poses the question: "Can a ninth grader truly be said to be doing "college level" work in European history?"</p>
<p>Yes, as a matter of fact, SOME can. Just as others can handle Calculus and Physics, and......</p>
<p>"First, and perhaps most important, it would cut the Gordian knot that currently ties together the content of AP and introductory college courses, which would free the AP curriculum from its current preoccupation with comprehensiveness and allow a more in-depth study of selected areas in biology."</p>
<p>Right - and we're supposed to believe that these students should do "in-depth study of selected areas of biology" without the comprehensive rigorous introduction to Biology that is the current AP Biology? Puh-leaze!</p>
<p>reflective mom and others, </p>
<p>i apologize if this has already been asked and answered but i have a question.</p>
<p>can an ap course be substituted for a required h.s. course? in other words, can a student substitute the ap course for a required course and receive credit from their high school? i'm prompted to ask this because I think there are indeed AP courses now available as early as 9th grade in our district.</p>
<p>Condor:</p>
<p>Most high schools mandate 4 years of English, 3 years of lab science, etc... not particular levels. So it is indeed possible to use AP classes to satisfy the requirements for a particular field.<br>
For example, my S took AP-chem in 9th grade, after taking the Fast-Paced High School chemistry class at CTY. He still had two years' worth of lab sciences requirements to fulfill, and did so at the AP and college levels. My other S did 4 years of math, but not at the AP level.</p>
<p>School systems write their rules differently. Our school has now substituted AP Physics B for Honors Physics. They still teach regular and I think you could go from regular to either AP Physics B or C depending on where you were in math. In NY you don't have to take x years of math - you have to pass certain levels of math. But you have to have four years of English and pass a Regents test in English which most kids take junior year.</p>
<p>marite and mathmom,
thanks for the answer. even with one already in college, i still have questions. this has been a very informative helpful thread.</p>
<p>so next i got to thinking.......what about ncaa and their approved courses? do they accept AP courses?</p>
<p>what i found is that you can pull up your student's h.s. at the ncaa clearinghouse online website. the list of approved ncaa courses approved at your student's h.s. is available at the website. good news is that at our local h.s., ap physics, ap biology, ap literature & composition, ap world history, and ap calculus are all a ok with the folks at ncaa. this is pretty helpful information for student athletes and their families.</p>
<p>i also found that I can find the state colleges' qualified admissions website and see the approved AP courses for them.</p>
<p>THEN we can identify which AP courses are on both lists.</p>
<p>I'm not aware of a listing of AP courses that are accepted for credit by oos colleges and private colleges. Something like that might be helpful. Is there such a list? Can it only be found by visiting the individual colleges' websites? Is there something like this at the College Board website?</p>
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i also found that I can find the state colleges' qualified admissions website and see the approved AP courses for them.
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</p>
<p>It is not necessary for students to avoid AP courses that are not approved by a particular college. Taking such a course does not count against the student. The college simply does not give credit toward college graduation for passing that particular AP exam.</p>
<p>
[quote]
can an ap course be substituted for a required h.s. course? in other words, can a student substitute the ap course for a required course and receive credit from their high school? i'm prompted to ask this because I think there are indeed AP courses now available as early as 9th grade in our district.
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</p>
<p>This depends on the particular school and the particular course. You need to ask your own school's guidance department. Sometimes, the AP course may omit material that your state requires the high school course to cover. For example, the AP American Government course does not cover the state and local government of your particular state, but your state may require that this be covered in the required high school government course.</p>
<p>Yes indeed schools handle AP courses differently. For example, at S1 & S2's HS one must first take chemistry before one can take AP chemistry. This is the only class where that is the case. S1 took AP Calc AB as a freshman, and BC as a sophomore, and honors physics (calc-based), but was not allowed to take AP chemistry. Because he wanted to take other honors science (marine biology, etc) courses he ended up only getting to take regular chemistry (which turned out to be a good course). The reasoning was that they wanted more kids to take AP chemistry and succeed. Made no sense that a kid who could succeed in it was not allowed to take it. Something about wanting everyone to be treated the same. Kids have to double or triple (by doing a year during the summer) up on science to get the full AP compliment of courses offered. Accordingly, they have to take fewer non-science electives. S1 had to take debate during the summer, for example.</p>
<p>condor30, as far as I know, you have to go to each individual college or university web site to see what their AP credit/placement standards are. (and they do change). In general, what we found were that State Universities were the most generous in terms of both credit and placement. The further up the private school "prestige" scale, the credits drop quickly, as does placement. Williams, for example, will give placement, but will not allow any early graduation based on AP credits brought in.</p>
<p>thanks astrophysicsmom. </p>
<p>would it be advantageous to students to clearly know up front what is the expected outcome placement wise/credit wise standards for the ap's across the board before they sign up? would this help when there are times that prioritizing of classes at enrollment time is needed?
there are students that really have to make room in their schedule to take an ap course(s). i remember that my d did not take a 4th year of foreign language in order to take an ap course her senior year. i think the more information available, the better, in order to make an informed decision. </p>
<p>will there someday possibly be some type of a comprehensive listing of ap placement/credit standards at the various institutions? maybe it's something that peterson's or princeton review, etc. can put together?</p>
<p>There are too many different colleges with too many different policies for there to be a comprehensive list. For example, MIT, Harvard and Princeton seem to have different ways of treating AP Bio and AP Chemistry credits.</p>
<p>Pace astrophysicsmom, Advanced Standing is not a matter of prestige or not. Many LACs do not allow students to graduate early, while HYPS all do. </p>
<p>As a matter of general rule, it might be best to concentrate on the core academic courses (math, sciences, English, History) for APs and only add APs in other subjects if there is space and inclination. Still, S1 was admitted to a top LAC in 2000 without any AP in math or science, although he did take 4 years of math and of sciences.</p>
<p>marite,
thanks for the info. and for the suggestion about the core academic courses .
as i recall, d took only 2 ap courses and both were in her senior year. she kept very busy with varsity sports (3 sport athlete) throughout h.s. and i think had she tried to take ap courses beginning in 9th grade, she may not have enjoyed the heavier workload. </p>
<p>maybe there could be a listing that would at least link to each college's website and to their ap placement/credit standards. i'm just brainstorming :) hey........maybe it could be on the cc website?</p>
<p>I remember that d took CP chemistry one year. what is CP exactly? i know it means college placement.........but is there a set standard for CP courses and a governing body or something like that? :)</p>
<p>In fairness to my high school, AP's do not always replace boring and unchallenging classes. Like most overachievers I was pushed to take a ton of AP's. Yes, the classes were challenging. Yes, I received 5's on the AP tests but I would rather have taken the courses I wanted to take, our school offers some great choices. Looking back I wish I would have ignored my counselor and taken Forensic Science and the Law instead of AP Bio. I also wish I would have taken Journalism and Newspaper Production instead of my second English AP course. I wish I would have taken The Media and Its' Impact on Youth instead of Econ AP, you get the idea.</p>
<p>Colleges even give different levels of credit depending on what school you have enrolled in at the college - math requirements may be higher for engineers or business students to be given credit and science majors may not be able to earn any credit for sciences - all depends on the school.
It's also difficult for students to know which APs will give them credit if they don't know which school they will attend until May. My d is going to a school which only accepts a 5 and on a limited number of AP subjects. She will end up taking 9 AP tests over 3 years and maybe get credit for 3 or 4 of them even though she has scored all 4s and 5s. Does she regret taking them? No - she's been in classes with more dedicated students and better teachers.</p>
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As a matter of general rule, it might be best to concentrate on the core academic courses (math, sciences, English, History) for APs and only add APs in other subjects if there is space and inclination.
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<p>I disagree. In some instances, a non-core AP may give students a chance to test their interest in a subject that they would not otherwise have a chance to become acquainted with until college -- such as psychology, art history, or economics. If the student will also be completing the basics (four years of foreign language, three years of history/government, all three basic high school science courses), what's the harm in branching out a bit?</p>
<p>Condor:</p>
<p>At our high school, CP means College Preparatory. As opposed to remedial. It is one level below Honors, which is one level below AP. Students aiming to take an AP class in a particular field ordinarily go into an Honors class rather than a CP class. Hope this helps.</p>
<p>Marian:</p>
<p>I did say "if there is space and inclination." I assume that wanting to test one's interest in a particular field falls under </p>
<p>marite, I had never noticed that credits were more likely to be granted for core subjects than non-core subjects. Does this pattern apply to most colleges?</p>
<p>I don't know about "most colleges" but the colleges we investigated for our Ss (one of which did not grant Advanced Standing and only allowed 2 APs to be used--to get out of intro level classes--anyway) were more likely not to grant credit for certain types of courses.
That does not mean that taking AP classes in such subjects would not be worthwhile intellectually or would fail to impress adcoms. But if receiving credit either to reduce time to degree or place into more advanced classes is important to the applicant, and the high school schedule only allows the applicant to take a limited number of APs, it might be wiser to stick to the core academic classes. </p>
<p>Here is a list of AP courses for which Harvard will NOT grant credit (note that Harvard is fairly generous in is AP policy, provided that the student receives a score of 5; other colleges seem to be more restrictive as to type of AP course, though they may be more generous about the score itself):</p>
<p>The following College Board Advanced Placement examinations may NOT be used for eligibility:</p>
<pre><code>Art (Studio and Portfolio)
Comparative Government and Politics
Computer Science A
Environmental Science
Human Geography
International English, and
United States Government and Politics.
</code></pre>
<p>One other reason to privilege core academic subjects is that both high schools and colleges demand/strongly suggest several years of study in those subjects. For example, 4 years of social studies can easily accommodate AP-USH and AP-World or European History. 4 years of ELA similarly can accommodate AP-English and AP-Language (they are paired with AP-USH and AP-Euro in our high school); AP-Calculus and AP-Physics are also often taken concurrently.</p>