He is applying to several Ivy and Little Ivy colleges as a Music major. The last day to take the test is Dec. 7th. The first time he took the test, I encouraged him to take 3, but he only took 2 (his choice). He got a 710 on the Math 1, and a very bad grade on the Literature (definitely can’t report this grade). I’ve read it doesn’t look good to send 1. He doesn’t want to bother taking the test again because he was taking it before because Cornell required it when he registered and no longer does. None of the colleges require them, but 5 recommend them. I don’t want to be a helicopter parent, but I want him to have all the information before he decides not to take more subject tests. Either way, the choice will be his. He is frustrated and embarrassed with his Lit score. He clearly just had a bad day. What should he do? Submit the Math 1 score? Not submit any scores, because the Math Score isn’t really outstanding? Take more subject tests in Dec. or skip it? FWIW, he’s submitted a 32 ACT and a 1420 SAT (690 V, 730 M). Would he be better off retaking the ACT to try and raise that score (or the scores within the ACT for college that superscore)? He has taking so many tests recently and had spent so much time writing college essays. We have 3 upcoming college visit trips. He is by no means lazy or unmotivated, but he is definitely hitting a wall with all of the college stuff, and I am trying to be supportive and not overbearing. That said, I want him to know fully what the ramifications will be with the choices he makes.
You might want to post this questions in the music forum. For other majors, his tests scores would be low for the Ivies but if he’s a performance major, his audition and tapes are going to be much more important. I think you’ll get better advice there. http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/
Thank you! He doesn’t intend to major solely in Music, which is why I didn’t post on the music forum. He is certainly capable of pursuing a major in performance and, to be honest, his father and I were surprised when he told us he didn’t want to solely focus on Music in college. He has applied to a few safeties, both public and private, and may end up applying ED II to one of the privates we have visited. So far, his top choices are Hamilton, Vassar and Skidmore. He’s also applied to Ithaca, Bates, Oberlin and Connecticut College, and some others we plan to visit. He is very aware that the Ivy League schools are a reach.
Typically, "recommended " means required unless you have a compelling reason for not submitting. (And this may relate to being in a targeted population.) So yes, they probably want them. Can you not submit? Sure. I would say this is a strategy that might work if your kid is in the relatively small group that simply need nothing wrong with their applications (like children a major donors or highly recruited athletes. ) That group is “in” as long as they don’t trigger a no from admissions and, unfortunately, isn’t most of us.
There are schools that don’t require subject tests with the ACT so that path is an option at those but you will need to go through your list school by school to see if/where that applies. The ACT is, imo, an easier test to improve on if you invest the time in figuring out how to work quickly. So if your S did not prep a lot, pulling that score up for those schools is possible and could help. But if he’s burnt out and not up for that, I would simply adjust expectations accordingly. He will certainly have good options with what he has, including his music, just perhaps not a pile of tippy tops. At some level, he’s telling you he really doesn’t feel like killing himself to feed that kind of ambition. Nothing wrong with that so long as he’s not delusional about it.
Thank you! I am super proud of how well he has done throughout this process and, to be honest, never cared or encouraged him to apply to the Ivy League schools. He did want to visit Cornell, so we took him there. I just want him to have options and really envision him thriving at a small liberal arts college. His Dad pushed him to apply to the Ivies. I continually questioned DS while he was working on his applications and supplements this summer, reassuring him that it was entirely okay if this was not what he wanted to do. He told me: “Mom, I want to at least try and give it all I can. I’d rather try and fail, then not try at all”. He has done that, and then some, but he’s definitely reached the burnt out phase. I’m trying to listen to those subtle unspoken cues. Right now, those cues are telling me he’s had enough. That said, I’m very grateful to the candid responses from everyone, because I intend to share it with him and let him make the final decision. His Lit score is really bad and would likely hurt his applications (less than 600). So, he will need to decide if he wants to retake, and chose different subject tests, possibly improve his ACT, or simply be done.
Submitting an ACT, an SAT 1 result and a single SAT subject test seems to cover a breadth of testing that most colleges would be happy to see (and which would seem to be at least the equivalent of an SAT 1 exam combined with two Subject Tests, but no ACT). If your son might test further, I’d suggest a retake of the ACT, at least if he feels he may have performed below his potential with the 32.
This used to be the case, but these days it is no longer true for many colleges. Although it remanins true for some. Harvard AOs have said recommended = required. Princeton has said recommended = optional; it can help if you submit, but it won’t hurt if you don’t. I don’t follow Cornell closely enough (and their change is recent) to know their philosophy.
That said, I remain firmly in the camp of send zero or two. Virtually nobody takes one Subject Test, and sending one can signal that the applicant is hiding a score, which he is. And in this case, I’d opt for 0. With time running out, I would retake SAT or ACT before taking Subject Tests again.
Has your son been preparing for the tests efficiently? Does he rely solely on online prep? I think it is more useful to practice with physical copies of the tests and in a simulated test environment (timed and 3 hours in a quiet room in a library or school, for example). If he is going to retest on ACT in December, then may I remind him that ACT is about speed, about one minute is allotted for one question. For the science section of the ACT, a common strategy is to skip the paragraph, go directly to the question and then consult the data and paragraph if necessary.
I don’t recommend a re-take of the SAT literature subject test, which is a very hard test and hard to study for.
Your son is very mature as evidenced in telling you, “Mom, I want to at least try and give it all I can. I’d rather try and fail, then not try at all”. He is a fine young man and will go far.
Umm, he didn’t study for the tests at all. The 32 ACT was just showing up and taking the test. The same with the 1420 SAT. Perhaps that’s why he didn’t do as well on the SAT Literature subject test? He did okay on the Math I (710), but it certainly wasn’t outstanding. Now I feel bad. I didn’t realize we should even have him study for it?
Has your S decided what to do with regard to testing? I am in the group who would have him retake ACT or SAT before taking subject tests, if he decides to take any at all. If he does retake tests, adequate preparation would be good. Subject tests can be difficult and some don’t directly mirror the content from a given HS class…like lit, which is difficult analytically and poetry heavy. At the schools on your S’s list Math 2 would be strongly preferred over Math 1…I would not send a 710 Math 1 score to any of the top schools on his list.
With that said, I would probably have him not retake any tests, but rather focus on apps and getting good first semester grades. Good luck.
Has your S decided what to do with regard to testing? I am in the group who would have him retake ACT or SAT before taking subject tests, if he decides to take any at all. If he does retake tests, adequate preparation would be good. Subject tests can be difficult and some don’t directly mirror the content from a given HS class…like lit, which is difficult analytically and poetry heavy. At the schools on your S’s list Math 2 would be strongly preferred over Math 1…I would not send a 710 Math 1 score to any of the top schools on his list.
With that said, I would probably have him not retake any tests, but rather focus on apps and getting good first semester grades. Good luck.
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He didn’t enjoy the subject tests, but I’ve yet to get a firm response from him on retaking the SAT or ACT. I’ve given him the deadline to let me know so I can register him.
We planned to not send the SAT Math 1 score, because we knew he did not score in a very high percentile for that test. I’d like to see him retest the ACT, because I think he could possibly raise this score more so than the SAT, but I could be wrong.
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Has your S decided what to do with regard to testing? I am in the group who would have him retake ACT or SAT before taking subject tests, if he decides to take any at all. If he does retake tests, adequate preparation would be good. Subject tests can be difficult and some don’t directly mirror the content from a given HS class…like lit, which is difficult analytically and poetry heavy. At the schools on your S’s list Math 2 would be strongly preferred over Math 1…I would not send a 710 Math 1 score to any of the top schools on his list.
With that said, I would probably have him not retake any tests, but rather focus on apps and getting good first semester grades. Good luck.
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Will it look good for him to retake the ACT, at least for the schools he is applying that superscore? It’s so hard to know what to suggest he do. Right know, he’s in a place where he doesn’t want to take any more tests, which I understand completely, but is there any argument in favor of retaking them other than to simply earn a higher score? I guess what I’m asking is, does it look bad if he had the option one last time to retake one of his tests and chose not to? Several of the schools he has applied to stress that they superscore, which to me may be a subtle hint that students should use every opportunity available to them? On the flip side, some of the schools require all test scores be submitted. These are the same schools that require subject tests, and the same schools that are big reach for him and it is unlikely he will be accepted anyway.
If he does not retake ACT, where is he likely to land?
If he does not retake ACT, what is he doing instead with his time?
If there is time to prep with a specific goal, that could be worthwhile. Ten -fifteen hours test prep with tutor could raise his score one point. My D20 raised her 31 to a 32 with 33 superscore last June - July.
Are there merit awards at his safeties that become within reach with higher score?
Or will his time be better spent on other elements in his applications?
No it doesn’t work that way.
SAT and ACT are interchangeable. If you submit more than one, schools will use the concordance to determine which is higher and discard the other.
If you take only one Subject Test for a school that requires/recommends two, you will be at a significant disadvantage.
Subject Tests cover a specific area and are requested for a specific reason. Taking what is effectively a duplicate of another test you’ve taken does not meet that need.
Thank you. He is currently within the range for the maximum award offered at one of the schools we are looking at that award merit aid. It is possible that his time might be better spent on other areas of his applications. He has already received notices of requests to submit scholarship applications for some of his safety schools and so could be working on those now.
It’s too large a topic to discuss fully here, but you are ignoring the field of statistics in general. Multiple data points, when available, are used in statistics and science to substantiate each other, even if they don’t land precisely at the same level. Smarter colleges would know this, and therefore would consider both ACT and SAT scores, if submitted, when evaluating an applicant. Stated differently, a slightly lower SAT score submission (by concordance) can serve to substantiate a higher ACT score when considered together.
I would take more and see what happens