So, warning, this post will probably sound semi-elitist, sorry about that.
My sisters (two twins) are current juniors and pretty decent academically, 3.7 to 3.8 (UW) GPAs with about 5-7 APs or dual enrollment courses. SATs are a bit low for decent schools (1400 ish) but I know that they could get 1580s or 1600s if they put in the effort to study for the sat.
I think they’d be pretty decent applicants for lehigh and other similar schools, but they want to just go to community college and then transfer to 4 year (which is guaranteed as long as they get B+ in some specific courses and a 3.3 or so average GPA overall for all courses).
I’m worried that I’ve been a bad influence on them. For reference, I had a 1560 sat and was a national math competitor and got into a couple top schools but still went to community college, because the schools I got into thought that 0 EFC for someone at 30% (lower at the time of application) of the poverty level household income corresponded to a 100 percent aid of still 3-4k per year left over. For reference, my fam makes 14k a year but only because I also work time lol. (I was scared of loans at the time and didn’t understand them much). However, I expect to be able to support my family better as soon as I graduate from college (which is before they start college) so I would be happy to pay a few thousand per year for them to go somewhere else, or even live in with them and pay 10k a year for them.
But they still want to go to community college first and then state school to have the cheapest experience possible. I would want them to have a better college experience than me, because to be honest, I hate having had been born into an impoverished family and not being able to go to a T20 school. I don’t want to force the same experience on them just because I did and “seem” successful.
Is there something I could possibly say to them to convince them to apply to higher-rated colleges and stay in a college for 4 years instead of having to deal with 2 and 2, or is it wrong of me to disrespect their wishes even if it’s with good intentions.
The 4-year residential college experience is great. What’s greater by far is earning a degree and living a life where you never really worry about finances the way a very-low-income family worries about finances. You know that. Your sisters know that.
As long as each of you graduates and becomes middle-class (or better) citizens, none of you will look back 20 years from now and think “my life was ruined because I did the CC-to-4yr route.” Instead, you’ll all be so very happy that you did so. Besides, the first few years after you graduate you’ll have plenty to spend/invest your money on, so if your sisters want to concentrate on saving the family some money right now, that’s not really a bad consideration. In fact, it is a very wise, very self-aware decision and shows how mature they are.
Congratulations on working your way up, and on caring so much for your sisters!
You are a great influence and support system for your sisters! College is hard and a big transition, regardless if you start at acc and transfer or head straight into a 4-year program. They are going to need your support and encouragement all along this journey. Plus, college is expensive, and they are smart enough to know it. Instead of trying to convince them to do something “better”, encourage them to do their best and transfer. Allow them the time to mature, get acclimated to college work, and chart their path.
Maybe you can convince them to apply to Lehigh just to see what the admission and finances would look like but the bottom line is it is their decision. If they don’t buy in to your plan for them, it will just be a struggle for everyone.
If the family is as poor as you say it is, the twins could probably use CLEP and AP and dual enrollment to get a free year’s credit, then cover one year at community college with a Pell grant while taking at least 5 classes a semester while working part time, and get done with associate’s degree in just one year. They could then transfer to your state’s flagship state U and hopefully get financial aid, finish up in two more years with about 15K subsidized federal loan debt at most.
BUT… the pity is that with your credentials you didn’t take the essentially full ride at a top school. They are not quite in the same boat, with slightly lower (I assume) GPAs and significantly lower SATs (unless they can bring their scores up). You should know that the ACT is easier (especially on the English) for some people. They should try a diagnostic ACT for free off the ACT website, and if they get in the low 30s on it (ignore their science section grades - it’s very easy to prep for that part simply by doing practice science sections, since it’s really just data interpretation), they might consider prepping for the ACT, instead.
If they are black or hispanic, they might stand a chance at Ivies or the like. Schools that have large endowments will give them excellent financial aid. If they are not, then I agree, schools in the T50-T30 range would probably take them, and give excellent financial aid.
They can get access to free college applications through their guidance counselor. I agree with you, urge them to apply to the appropriate schools, trying for full fin aid at some competitive schools.
I think supporting your sisters (emotionally, financially, practically- whether that’s transportation or time management or whatever) is key. How they figure out getting a degree- that’s less critical.
As you already know- SO many kids like your sisters (and you! Congrats!) get derailed along the way. An Aunt needs a ride to the doctor, nobody can do it except the college student who “only” has a review session at that time- so guess who goes to the doctor’s appointment instead of the review session? Somebody needs $100, so instead of buying the textbook, the college kid uses the one at the library- which is also being used by 15 other students, so it’s never available.
Etc. I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know.
So encourage them. Sure- if they want to cast a wider net- great. If you can educate them on how to use everything at their disposal- fee waivers, free visits to colleges where they get the red carpet treatment, no-fee AP exams, local foundations that pay “last dollar” scholarships for first Gen kids, etc.- fantastic. And it’s not disrespectful to encourage them to aim high. But they will need you- not just during application season, but for the full four years- so they don’t get sidetracked the way so many kids do.
I’d help them visit to see what’s out there and let them know you’d be able to help with the finances if you are certain you can.
Then I’d respect their decisions to go where they want to go. Not everyone wants the same experience in life. What matters is having a decent future and either path can lead to that.
There’s nothing wrong with applying to a prestigious school if they qualify for income based aid. In fact, it doesn’t even have to be a “t20.” Baylor, TCU, and SMU would probably be a good fit also. Your family income should be enough to meet 100% need of just about any private school that admits them. There’s nothing to lose and everything to gain by applying.
Actually, lots of private schools (and in-state public schools in many states like Pennsylvania) do not give good financial aid to low income students, as shown by their net price calculator results when putting a low income into them.
Also, like I said in my original message, even with private schools that SAY they cover 100 percent aid, they’ll often leave a few thousand over. Lehigh says they’ll cover 100 percent aid with no loans for someone with my income, but we’ll still have to cover 3k or 4k somehow per year. Whereas with CC, we will GET 2k+ (minimum, likely more because they’ll qualify for the honors program at CC) extra to pocket per year and around 3k per year for them at state school (where the guaranteed transfer is to). Literally nothing ever paid, and a few thousand every year to pocket for expenses, which means NOTHING ever comes out of pocket, at all
A net price of $3k to $5k seems typical for maximum need-based financial aid at good-financial-aid colleges – they expect the student either to take a federal direct loan (up to $5.5k) or to earn some money in a part time job during the school year (if they offer work-study, that gives the student preference for some on-campus jobs).
Unless, of course, you mean $3k to $4k in addition to the $5.5k federal direct loan and $3k to $5k assumed student work earnings.
Of course, I understand that it’s typical, but I just wanted to bring that up because it makes “100% need met” sound a little misleading, and still not the financial equivalent of going to CC.
Yes, they’d come out ahead for the first two years in CC. But the last two years can end up being more expensive than they would have been with a four-year aid package, so going to a four-year could be just as good or better in the long run. A state school with maximum aid in PA is not that cheap - it could easily cost more than four years at a private U with full-need-met aid would have cost.
If their main concern is cost, run the numbers based on NPC’s, and see what it will really look like. The aid may look even better for them than it would have been for you, on account of being in college at the same time. The question is, are they reluctant to go away to school, even if that turns out to be the better option financially?
I don’t think it’s disrespecting their wishes to urge them to apply. It’s still their choice whether to attend; you just want to make sure they have the best possible options, then the time comes to make that choice.
Some states have fin aid grants for low-income families. Some state schools are more generous with fin aid to low-income families than others. Did the OP say they are in PA?
They are not in PA, the state we’re in does actually give us the money I stated (2k+ extra first two years, 3-4k+ extra in last two years) to pocket for people of our income in the joint transfer program for our local CC and a state school. The net price calculators for any private school is still showing us having to give at least 3k per year.
Also, yeah, I think part of it is that they’re nervous about going to school further away. They’re going to be studying computer science.
My sisters don’t want to retake the sat or take the act. It would take a lot of hours preparing to get a high score and they said they want to use that time to start working part time right now first to help support us. They also don’t want to spend time on writing personal statements and filling out college applications (CC takes like 10 minutes to fill out) for the same reason, to have more time to work for money.
PA isn’t our home state, NY is. They’ll be going to suffolk community college and then stony brook university, which is a pretty decent school for computer science. We are Asian/White, not URM. Not first gen either.
I didn’t consider merit scholarships! I was only looking at need-based aid haha. It might make the cost a lot more even if they qualify for merit based aid.
I don’t think there is a best option but there are several doable options. My nephews and nieces were in a somewhat similar position and the community college route worked out really well for them. It helped them stabilize and grow their academic skills, mature, and find some purpose snd direction. For what it is worth, they both accessed some mental health counseling at their schools along the way which helped them build ambitions and dreams. I think that all those things would be helpful for the kids you are describing (doesn’t want to put in the work for essays, SAT, just wants to earn money now). The motivation has to come for them directly. I’d think the best thing you can do is help them with books, transportation costs, offers to review papers etc.
I also want to mention that merit money is a hard slog with a very competitive pool.
At several large state flagship universities, merit scholarship awards are automatic, therefore there is no concern regarding a “competitive pool” ; nonetheless, merit based scholarships are competitive at private college and universities.
Looks like their CC->4-year option is pretty good (much better than if they lived in PA), so they can be selective in applying to 4-year schools for frosh entry (i.e. they have to be interesting enough for them and have a good chance of delivering a full ride based on need or merit). That is a lot better than the situation that many students in low income families in many other states face, where their CCs or 4-year in-state public universities are not very affordable, and/or the commutable ones are not very suitable for the intended major.