Should I Even Bother To Continue To Do Engineering?

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>I am entering my sophomore year at a small college that offers an ABET accredited Engineering Program. I honestly have been struggling academically particularly in my math and science courses. I only took hard math and science courses in college and was not challenged at all in math and science at my high school. Because I did not place in the top 30% in math and science section in the entrance exam to attend my high school, I was placed in the regular math and science track and could not take any honors math and science courses (In high school, I took regular Earth Science, Chemistry, Biology, Physics, Algebra I, Algebra II, Geometry, Half-Semester Pre-Calculus, Half-Semester Statistics). I am not saying that my academic preparation was an excuse to my sub-par performance first year, but it could be explanation. </p>

<p>Recently, I have interned at my city Department of Transportation and shadowed at my regional State Department of Transportation and have been extremely interested in the work that they do - particularly, project development, planning, and permit/zoning (only on roads and highways, the offices I worked with did not deal with air or any intermodal transport). There are currently more opportunities for engineers in the DOT and the transportation industry compared to planners, analysts, MPAs, etc. About 70% of the DOT office hires people from the Junior Engineering Civil Service Exam - which requires a bachelor's in engineering. Even the work those with MPAs, MBAs, Environment Science, Computer Science, etc. degrees can be qualified for, the DOT hires engineers to complete them. </p>

<p>I am not sure if I should continue with engineering especially if I continue to struggle (and put my academic scholarship in jeopardy). My adviser has discouraged me from continuing engineering - and suggests that I look into majoring in the social sciences, but that would honestly hurt my chances working with the DOT and/or the transportation industry. </p>

<p>Here's a breakdown of my academic performance. What do you think I should do? Should I continue with the engineering major or switch to another major?</p>

<p>Overall GPA (at school where I am a full-time student, does not count summer classes or additional classes at other institutions): 3.30
Overall Engineering Major GPA (without summer classes): 2.55</p>

<p>Classes Towards Engineering Degree:</p>

<p>First-Year Fall Semester:
Calculus I (Grade: B)
Calculus-Based Physics I (Grade: C)</p>

<p>First-Year Spring Semester (Adviser discouraged me from pursuing Engineering degree):
Introduction to Programming [Grade: B-]</p>

<p>This Summer at Community College:
Calculus II (Grade: A)</p>

<p>Sophomore Fall Semester:
Calculus III
Introduction to Chemistry
Mechanics I</p>

<p>Sophomore Spring Semester:
Calculus Based Physics II
Mechanics II
Linear Circuit Theory
Linear Algebra OR Differential Equations</p>

<p>I have completed all of my General Education requirements already so if I could focus more on Engineering/Math/Science from this semester on (still on track to complete BS in Engineering). Not sure if it's recommended that I take only Math/Science. </p>

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<p>Dont get discouraged. My daughter who graduated with an EE always had a difficult time with the coursework in engineering. A lot of people don’t realize how difficult this major is. She had to relearn how to study for these courses.</p>

<p>That being said, I think you would be perfect for civil engineering. My classmate works for Cal Trans in LA and loves it. Intern with them again but let them know your switching over to CivilE.</p>

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<p>I’ll second the don’t get discouraged. Engineering is a tough program in college. You are actually making it tougher on yourself by taking a class schedule of STEM and engineering classes only. I used to like to a general ed class in there to kind of give my self a break. I would pour over the class schedule to find general ed classes that were fun for me (like photography, painting, etc.). </p>

<p>The classes you have taken aren’t the “engineering” classes yet. They are still the basic leading to the real engineering classes. I found them to be a bit disconnected with what I was really looking to do in engineering and my performance in them wasn’t the greatest. I also had to figure out my study skills for the engineering classes (ie. studying in groups is much easier and more efficient than by myself, keeping up daily with each class meant I understood the lectures better and spent less time overall studying, etc.). Once you start on the real engineering classes, your grades should improve.</p>

<p>I kind of find it disturbing that your advisor is discouraging you from continuing in engineering. I would request, actually insist, on getting a new advisor. He should be helping you find a way to improve your grades not just telling you to bail out.</p>

<p>Your sophomore spring schedule looks like quite a load. I might suggest one less class.</p>

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<p>You don’t seem to be doing all that badly; not at the top of the class, but certainly not bad enough that you should consider switching. Still, a C in Physics is somewhat troublesome, more than anything else here. I suggest you try to give yourself a little more time to learn things, possibly plan for a 5 year graduation. Additional internship experience or a semester/year of co-op work would probably offset the cost for that.</p>

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<p>Ditto several of the above posts. A 3.3 GPA in your first year of college is VERY good. You’ll want to try to keep it above a 3.0, but a 3.3 after your first year is nothing to be discouraged about.</p>

<p>The 2.55 in the engineering coursework is a little more concerning, but I’m not sure what they’re counting as engineering coursework. Many schools don’t count the calc and physics grades as part of the engineering GPA. Have you had any actual intro engineering courses. Did you struggle in those?</p>

<p>I agree with taking at least 1 general ed course per semester and also lightening your courseload if you can’t keep up. My son does well with 4 courses per semester, he struggles some when he tries to take 5. That may mean taking an extra semester or year before graduation or taking more summer courses, but figure out how much you can handle keeping up with and don’t take so much you get overwhelmed;</p>

<p>Also ditto if you’re interested in the transportation industry you should be pursuing civil which has a specific transportation engineering track that you can specialize in at many schools.</p>

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<p>Thank you for everyone’s insight! I have not taken any engineering courses…I have only taken the Core Math and Science Requirements. I reviewed my college’s Engineering Curriculum page and it indicates that you need a 3.5 GPA in ENGINEERING courses in order to be considered for honors (which means that only Engineering courses are counted towards the Engineering GPA. That means that I currently do not have an Engineering GPA).</p>

<p>I would also like to add that my overall college GPA (at all institutions) is a 3.5.</p>

<p>I have reviewed my school’s requirements for an ABET B.S. Engineering degree, previous year’s schedules and class pre-reqs, and have planned out my possible class schedule in the next three years. It seems like I will be taking 3 STEM/Engineering classes each semester except for my senior Spring. My college requires that I take at least four classes per semester so I would be able to add a liberal arts/humanities class to my schedule - which would be nice because I have done better in such classes (could be because I took AP classes in those subjects in high school and am better prepared in them). I’ll try not to overload my schedule. </p>

<p>I’ll probably have to talk to the Engineering Department Chair about my options. Also, I honestly don’t want to take this route because I don’t think it would benefit me much, but I could do just a B.A. in Engineering Science? I would only need to take 1-2 STEM/Engineering courses per semester from now on - anyone have knowledge with this path? It seems that those majoring in Engineering Science tend to apply to medical school, work in business, etc., but actually do not become engineers. Probably not a good idea, but an option. </p>

<p>Thank you all of your help. </p>

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<p>If your school is what I think it is, you may have another problem besides the unsupportive advising. It looks like your school offers just general engineering, with course offerings that are mainly focused on electrical and mechanical with some biomedical offerings. Typical civil engineering offerings like structures, water/environmental systems, transportation systems, construction, engineering geology, and the like do not appear to be present (see <a href=“Civil and Environmental Engineering (CIV ENG) < University of California, Berkeley”>http://bulletin.berkeley.edu/courses/civ_eng/&lt;/a&gt; for the kinds of courses that a civil engineering department may offer).</p>

<p>If you intend to work in a civil engineering type of field, it is preferable to get the ABET accredited degree, since Professional Engineer licensing is common and useful in civil engineering. However, the lack of applicable course work at your school may make it more difficult to pass the licensing exams and gain work experience in civil areas (as opposed to electrical or mechanical areas).</p>

<p>If you do decide you want to focus on civil engineering, you may want to start looking at transfer options to schools which offer civil engineering. This year would be the year you send in applications. However, college course work and grades are the most important factors for junior level transfer applicants.</p>

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<p>@ucbalumnus Yes, this is what I am struggling the most with - My college has an ABET accredited B.S. in Engineering only (with concentrations in Biomedical, Mechanical, Electrical, and Computer). I am not 100% sure if I want to commit to civil engineering and transfer out.</p>

<p>Here is my situation:
My family lives under the poverty line and I am receiving full financial aid at this college - it’s a 100% demonstrated need school. I have researched my options and I probably won’t receive much financial aid/merit aid at a lower ranked school that offers civil engineering (especially as a transfer). With my GPA, I probably can’t transfer to a high ranked college that does offer civil engineering - MIT, Stanford, Brown, Caltech, etc. </p>

<p>I did aspire to work in the automotive industry after college. However, there aren’t any internships in the automotive industry in my area so I wasn’t able to intern/shadow in the field. I interned/shadowed with the state DOT and local DOT/DPW offices, because they were the most similar to the transportation industry and I was unsure if I was good enough to do engineering - at the DOT and DPW, there are some opportunities for Urban Planners, MPAs, MBAs, Asset Managers, etc. Not much, but some. I have improved significantly in math and also have done well in all of Urban Studies/Planning courses (3.67+ GPA). Not much, but some. I probably should work harder to find internships in the automotive industry or try to relocate to Detroit - not sure of my options, but now that I am confident that I should major in Engineering, I’ll try even harder to find these opportunities.</p>

<p>I would also still qualify to take the Junior Engineering/Engineering Trainee exam in my state and there are some Engineers at the DOT office I shadowed who DID NOT concentrate in civil engineering. </p>

<p>Any more suggestions on what I should do?</p>

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<p>The automotive industry would want mechanical and electrical engineers. Note that the automotive industry is in many places, not just Detroit. However, it appears to be absent from the northeast.</p>

<p><a href=“North American OEM Auto Plants - Google My Maps”>North American OEM Auto Plants - Google My Maps;

<p>State of residency? Perhaps there is a low cost in-state public that is transfer friendly, not that selective, and not too expensive after in-state financial aid.</p>

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<p>@ucbalumus I live in New York State (near the Upstate area). The SUNY system is not well known for good financial aid. </p>

<p>I attend a 100 demonstrated need school in the Northeast/MidAtlantic region. </p>

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<p>@ucbalumnus Also, the only schools with Civil Engineering in the SUNY system are: University of Buffalo, SUNYIT (not ABET accredited), and Stony Brook.</p>

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<p>Caroline: my daughter attended Buffalo; it is a really tough engineering program but the advisors provided a lot of support. It is a good school and she’s working here in California.</p>

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<p>As an alternative, you could take a Mechanical Engineering concentration which would be closer to the Civil Engineering field (but definitely not the same). It all depends on whether you feel more comfortable with mechanical or electrical systems and this year’s physics class will help you make that determination.</p>

<p>I echo what the others have said. You had an adjustment period your first year. if you have learned how to study more effectively from this first year experience, you should be OK for the upcoming year. Your GPA is fine for a first year and this second year is an opportunity to improve it further. I have been an academic advisor to engineering students at my university, Illinois Tech for many years and your academic record would NOT be a concern for me at this point. Yes, you got a C in physics but that is not a failing grade by any means. If your school does not have rampant grade inflation, then it is an average grade.</p>

<p>Frankly, I am appalled at the kind of advising that is going on at your school if what you say is typical. Is it a faculty member or a professional advising person? If the latter, get to know one of your engineering professors and then discuss your concerns with that individual. Your financial situation might preclude transferring to another school but you need to find sympathetic individuals whom you can talk to at your school. </p>

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<p>@aunt bea: Yes, SUNY Buffalo is a good school and well respected in my area. However, I have used their Net Price Calculator to determine the amount of financial aid I could receive as an in-state, transfer student with $0 EFC. For my entire junior year, I should expect to loan $6,602, complete $1,293 of work study and pay out-of-pocket $2,027. I should expect the same for my senior year.</p>

<p>Right now, at the school that I am attending, I am not loaning anything and not paying anything out of pocket - other than miscellaneous personal expenses. Since I am not 100% confident if I would like to pursue civil engineering (and work on roads and highways) or pursue mechanical engineering (which my school does offer and work in the automotive industry), I am not sure if I would want to give up my full ride at the school that I currently attend to pay to attend SUNY Buffalo which does not seem to meet my financial need.</p>

<p>@xraymancs: Thank you for your insight. My college is a small school and relatively dominated by the social sciences and humanities (like many small schools). My adviser is an Urban Studies professor and the Engineering Department (though has 6 faculty members) usually do not pick up advising for non-declared students. My adviser does not feel that I am not as “good” as my other classmates in math and science, given that those who are pursuing STEM majors often have AP/Honors classes in STEM before starting their first-year. Like I have expressed, because of my high school’s policies, AP/Honors classes are not available for students on the regular math and science track. I have talked to other students in my high school and it seems as most students on the regular math and science track have really struggled in their college STEM classes. He does make a valid point - because I am only starting to learn how to study for my STEM classes and have relatively average SAT/ACT scores for my class, it may not be the best idea to major in Engineering - there’s going to be a lot of competition and I may fall seriously behind. However, I do feel more confident in my abilities - I improved my mathematics grade (B in Calculus I to an A in Calculus II - though I took Calculus II at a much less competitive college). Though I received a C in Calculus-based Physics I, I did end up getting an A in a non-major Physics class (probably isn’t saying much, because Calculus-based Physics is much harder).</p>

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<p>I.e. a net price of $9,922 for the year (although you may choose to take lesser amounts of loans if you can find jobs that earn greater work earnings). This actually isn’t bad, although it is at the high end of what a college student can reasonably self-fund.</p>

<p>Looks like your NY public school options with ABET-accredited civil engineering are Buffalo and CUNY City College.</p>

<p>Stony Brook’s civil engineering major is not ABET accredited, according to <a href=“http://www.stonybrook.edu/ugadmissions/forms/ceas_brochure.pdf”>http://www.stonybrook.edu/ugadmissions/forms/ceas_brochure.pdf&lt;/a&gt; , presumably because it is new (fall 2012). You may wish to ask the department about its plans and timeline for seeking ABET accreditation.</p>

<p>You may want to put in transfer applications to all three so that you may have options to consider next spring (does not mean that you have to transfer, but if you decide to commit to civil engineering and have a transfer admission with a low enough net price, you can make the transfer).</p>

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<p>I got a C in physics and still graduated with a 3.8+ GPA. Don’t sweat that!</p>

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<p>Indeed, I think that you have a lot of insight into your struggles in math and science courses. Your preparation was weak. This is not incurable, but it does mean that you will have to spend more time catching up than most people. </p>

<p>Your school probably provides tutoring services. You should sign up immediately because you will likely struggle and will want the extra help. A tutor can quickly plug your gaps as they arise. </p>

<p>I’m not sure I understand how your academic scholarship works. You said you are on financial aid. Usually, you just need to keep in good academic standing to stay in the school. Maybe you can explain that better. </p>

<p>Like others, I think that you should stick it out. I struggled early on too. Working with people and getting help are key. In order to do this, you need to start working problems as soon as they are handed out and formulate specific questions to work on with people. </p>

<p>One thing to realize is that it’s critical to not get behind because the class is not going to slow down to wait for you. </p>

<p>I think trying to take no more than 3 technical courses at a time is best. </p>

<p>Also, I think it’s important to have a sense of what engineering courses are about. They are very different from math and science courses and take a little getting used to. </p>

<p>Engineering courses are about developing abstractions and mathematical tools to model reality and control complexity. </p>

<p>For example linear approximations are often used to analyze situations that are really nonlinear. It’s important to understand how to get the linear or sometimes quadratic approximations, but also to calculate the error in using them. This is a fundamental theme that you will see over and over. I don’t know if you’ve covered Taylor series yet, but when you do, realize that it’s really useful. </p>

<p>The best part about abstractions is that it allows you to ignore things and look at your system under analysis as a black box. So if you keep in mind that the engineering courses are trying to teach you how to analyze systems and design them using these tools. </p>

<p>This whole concept of distinguishing engineering courses from math and science courses threw me too. Courses often zigged and I zagged. </p>

<p>If you learn the engineering courses well, you’ll start to see themes repeating themselves and you start to get a better idea of how to approach problems in your later courses. This will make it easier later on once you get the hang of it. Try to read ahead to see where the course is going so that you are not surprised. </p>

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<p>@ClassicRockerDad Thank you for your insight! Thank you for all of the encouragement - it’s hard to feel encouraged and stick with something especially when your adviser does not believe you are “good” at it, other classmates might be doing well and are well prepared for their introductory STEM classes at least, and having parents who do not understand the U.S. education system well - and thus, do not understand what I am going through.</p>

<p>I have a full-ride scholarship that is preferably given to low-income students. Merit and income are both considered when given this scholarship to incoming first-year students. I am also required by my school to seek out all state and federal aid and since I have a $0 EFC, I receive a full Pell Grant. My “financial aid package” consists of an academic scholarship and Pell Grant (the Pell Grant I should receive anywhere else - but I doubt that I would receive such an award at a state school or lower ranked college).</p>

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<p>I suspect that you are loading up on STEM courses because you’re trying to get the B.S. degree in 4 years. That’s not your only option. Many engineers spent 5 years earning their bachelors. The main reason for the length of the program are the co-ops that many students participate in (some schools require it). Keep in mind that a good co-op or internship can pay for nearly an entire semester at some schools.</p>

<p>My advice to you is to slow down; enroll in only three STEM courses per term. Throw in a GE requirement or other elective each term until you’re absolutely confident about the STEM workload. Remember as far as employers are concerned, graduating with an acceptable GPA is more important than graduating in 4 years.</p>

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<p>I, too, received a C in my first physics class. I ended up in the top third of my class and landed an excellent job right out of college. </p>

<p>BTW - SUNY Binghamton is an other in-state option.</p>