I have 2 sons, 26 and 29. They are fairly close, but as they are getting older seem to be less so. Very different personalities. Sometimes they complain about each other to me, which I try to make them see the other side. Anyway, 26 year old paints and he does sell his paintings, typically $250-$500. 29 year old has mentioned sometime he’d like a painting and would buy one.
26 year old painted something about 5 years ago that several people have offered to buy, but he would never sell it because he liked it and it took him awhile. So, he mentions the other day that his brother wanted it, and he said yes, but his brother hasn’t paid him for it yet. He was irritated.
So, I’m at the 29 year old apartment the other day and mention, hey, there’s the painting. I told him many people wanted to buy it but his brother refused to sell it. 29 year old says “I just said hey can I have it and he said yes”! So…he doesn’t think he is supposed to pay.
I have no idea hiw the conversation went down obviously. Older son can sometimes try to take advantage of situations if he can. I don’t know if he’s trying this or not. I hate seeing younger son be one more resentful. He’s not one to speak up and hates confrontation, but he holds a grudge (he takes that from me)
I’ve always been really upfront with the boys. Should I say something to older son like “hey, you know, I didn’t say anything the other day in front of your GF but your brother did mention you have it and haven’t paid for it yet” ? Or should I relay the conversation to younger son that I had with his brother, so he realizes his brother isn’t thinking he’s supposed to pay?
Or should I just say nothing. Things could fester unnecessarily.
There could be a middle ground. You can tell the boys something along the lines of “I know there is an issue with the painting, but that is for you to work out between yourselves.”
And then stay out. Don’t let them triangulate you. Besides, your longterm goal should be for the brothers to learn to communicate between themselves. Just my 2 cents.
Sounds like this is REALLY special painting to your younger son who painted it. And clearly it has good value since others were Interested.
Right or wrong I think would be tempted to say something like this to older son - “that piece was really coveted by others and hard for your brother to part with over the years. I think you should get some clarity on whether it’s a gift or purchase” and maybe “he’s working really hard to make/save $$ to launch himself”
At the very least older son has asked and maybe gets some respect from younger son for asking. And younger son hopefully is honest in a way that he doesn’t hold any grudges over passing on the painting.
My view as a guy - guys are not prone to subtlety and we’re also vaccinated against picking up on subtlety. This probably goes quadruple for guys under 30.
I’d straight up tell the older brother that it seems like there was a miscommunication because the younger brother is expecting to be paid for the painting. Then I’d leave it at that and let the two figure it out from there.
I am almost always very blunt with my kids. I’d say:
“You do realize that Jim expected you to give him some money for that painting? He worked hard on it and it’s not free. Other people wanted to buy it. You need to talk to him and ask him how much he wants for it.”
I think you should NOT stay silent, but what you say would depend on relationship with kids. I’d probably approach older son and say something, especially since he told you he thought it was free to him and you know younger thought he was getting paid.
Thank you from a man’s perspective. I did mention it to DH and he said to stay out of it, but he RUNS from these types of confrontations and doesn’t have a close relationship with his brother, so I don’t always take his advice.
Your younger son needs to speak up if he expects his older brother to pay for the painting. It was a transaction between 2 brothers.
I would have a conversation with the younger son and advise him to ask his brother to pay for the painting. He doesn’t need his mother to speak for him. It also doesn’t pay for you to take sides. It’s a teaching/learning moment.
Young people do Venmo all the time. Your younger son can also just request his older brother to pay via Venmo. When his older brother complains, the younger one can always say, “I thought it was understood you were going to pay for the painting. I am giving you a family discount, but if you don’t feel comfortable in paying for it then I would be happy to take it back. “
From that moment, you were “included” in this family saga. And since it’s YOUR family, and you’ll be affected by the resulting dynamic, I see nothing wrong with you attempting to clarify what (at best) might be a misunderstanding, before fronts harden.
I would definitely remind the older son, that he had mentioned in the past wanting to buy one of the paintings - so when he had asked for this particular one, the younger brother had agreed assuming THIS was the painting he had settled on to purchase. So the older son needs to clear up his misunderstanding with his younger brother to avoid family tension.
And since your younger son brought it up, it’s perfectly fine to hint back to him that his older brother apparently didn’t connect the dots the same way, and rather than letting that be a festering irritation, it’s healthier for the family for the younger son to clarify, that he had thought the elder’s question to be a purchase request.
Wait….so older son was given the painting by younger son…with no clear bill of sale or clear indication that this was to be paid for by a certain date? I am sure that this is not how he does business with other buyers. They likely pay first before a painting leaves his studio.
I think these brothers need to resolve this. The most I would suggest is that you could mention that there seems to be a misunderstanding and they need to chat.
My mom was always the go between person in our family. She was expected to relay messages from my dad to my sister or me. So my policy as an adult is to tell family members to resolve situations directly. I will not get in the middle.
At this point, I would tell the younger son he needs to explain to his brother what the price of the painting is. And then make it clear you won’t get involved at all in future disputes. It’s not fair to you. They are both adults.
I read this aloud to my 27yo, who has a big brother. He said the younger brother needs to be direct with his big brother and make clear what amount of money he expects. We both agree that you can help facilitate the discussion, but you don’t need to “manage” their communication.
I am in the extreme minority here. The boys are family. I wouldn’t expect anyone to pay for it especially if he kinda gave it to older brother. If the younger brother expected to be paid that should of been told to older bro right there and then. Like… “Dude, I put a lot of time in that painting. I would love for you to have it but I need some money for it” “How does X sound”? I had 3 people going to pay me Y for it.
If the paintings were worth like $10,000 in the open market maybe not but for this amount, why have issues with a family member and especially if their not as close as they use to be. Why strain that relationship? That could just be a phase anyway.
I tell my kids all the time, after all your friends etc come and go your family will always be there.
Now, would I say something to the kids… You betcha… But I put it on the younger one to say something. If you say something to the older he will feel bad and might just take it back and then resent him. If anything let older brother post it online and brag about the great painting he got and yep, it’s from his brother.
It’s family, even though it was a painting that everyone liked, wouldn’t it be great that it stays in the family?
And can’t your son paint another picture just like the one he gave to his brother.
I had an elderly neighbor who loved to paint. She sometimes sold her paintings but mostly whenever you did her a favor, she gave you one of her paintings. She painted a picture for my son when he got married.
They are nice but not exceptional paintings. But I wouldn’t change having that picture on my wall. Because it reminds me of the friendship and love of my now former neighbor. And when I visit a friend who has one of her pictures, I always smile and we talk about our lovely friendship.
So maybe the way to frame this is to talk to younger son and ask him to consider it a gift. A gift that his brother will point out to his friends his very talented brother who painted it. And the love and pride the brothers feels when he see the painting.
Sometimes you do things for family that you wouldn’t do for your friends. And they will be brothers forever.
I have a very good friend who has an olive farm and makes high end olive oil. I “ask” for a case of olive oil every Xmas to give out to family and friends. They come to around $400. Should I not offer to pay because they come from her farm (what’s among good friends)? I believe if I didn’t offer to pay the first time she would never have asked me for the money, but I am happy it is a business transaction between us and we are still friends.
My personal opinion is the older brother is taking advantage of the little brother. The little brother needs to decide if it’s worth it to ask his older brother for the money.
I think this is key. Is it worth it to ask the brother for the money?
To me a friend is different than your sibling. I’m not sure if it’s a business the younger son has or a side gig? Or how organized the sale of paintings are?
Younger s brought it up to you. Perhaps first you might consider clarifying with younger s- was he just venting to you or was he asking for help with this situation. If the latter, you and he can clarify what he is asking and what you are or are not comfortable doing. You weren’t there when the conversation between them transpired so its impossible to know where the miscommunication occurred. You might have a better sense of what you might consider doing (ie suggest to both that they should speak to each other, and then step back) or if your younger s is really easily intimidated by older bro, a different response might be in order. It would help here to have a bit more info.