Siblings with very different academic profiles ...

Parents Forum
1

<p>OK, here is a topic I would like to open for discussion and get some advice from all you smart CC parents, many of whom probably have heard of a similar situation.</p>

<p>One of my kids routinely kicks the "academic butt" of the other. How do I promote peace and harmony in the land without holding the more advanced one back, and also without making the less advanced one feel bad?</p>

<p>Older sibling works his tail off, studies hours each night and barely makes a B. Sometimes a C. Younger sibling takes much harder classes, barely glances at the material, makes the easy A. Believe it or not, they actually still like each other and are best friends and buddies who hang out together socially. But as we get closer to college decision time, the pressure and competition is starting to build. They are only 1 year apart, 10th and 11th grade. Younger sib has much higher GPA and I am sure when the time comes he will best his bro by several hundred points on the SAT. </p>

<p>1) How do I praise the achievements of both without sounding hollow? "Oh, great job on the A you made in your Advanced Honors Hard Class, younger sib. Oh, by the way, congrats on bringing your C up to a C+ in regular English class, older sib. If you keep working hard, I am sure you'll eventually get a B+" I mean, they can see right through that crap. </p>

<p>2) COLLEGE! I am dreading the process as older sib will be aiming for University of Our State and it will be a reach for him as it has become hard to get in there recently. He may end up at community college. Younger sib will be a slam dunk to get in our flagship ... but I want him to aim a little higher (not the Ivys .. he's not THAT smart), but a notch above our state school. How do I encourage this without making his brother feel, "I go to the dumb school, he goes to the smart school."</p>

<p>I love them both so much and I worry about this every day. I want to keep older kid's self esteem up, but sometimes I feel that I have really held my younger kid back in life because I didn't want his brother to feel bad. I don't praise younger kid's achievements enough to save older kid's feelings. Older kid REALLY works hard, he just has some mild LDs and ADD and is doing the best he can. He is not lazy!</p>

2

<p>Don't overthink it. Everyone has things they do well. If you concentrate on what is best for each child you will do them both good in the long run. They know they aren't the same, and are old enough to understand that for one an A is expected and for another a B is great work. Self esteem doesn't come from seeing other kids held back, it doesn't come from collecting a lot of gold stars and stickers, it comes from succeeding at things that are personally hard for you.</p>

3

<p>My kids are not equal academically in all areas. I would just focus on fit for the individual. The process should not be competition. I am sure your older child already knows that academically he is not doing as well as the younger child. I am sure the older one has some other strengths and I would focus on those (ie: perhaps the older one is musical, more social, a good basketball player, etc.).</p>

4

<p>I know many, many on CC who will be adding to this thread. We too, have a very similar situation, but reversed. I must admit, it is extremely difficult and draining....but someone on another thread said it better than I can...and I keep repeating this mantra over and over again.....</p>

<p>Look at schools where each of your children can perform at the level they are comfortable with....schools that are too difficult will be stressful; too easy not challenging enough....</p>

<p>With this in mind, you will have two different and distinct lists....and, unfortunately,like us alot of travelling ahead of you.</p>

5

<p>They probably have different sets of interests and priorities. Concentrate on the older one now. Find out what he wants in terms of possible major, type of college, social scene, etc...You can deal with the younger one later.
As for praising, can you praise each one separately and privately? Don't make too big a deal of either successes or failures of each of them. But certainly praise the older one for being a hard worker and achieving as much as he does given the challenges he has. That kind of discipline will stand him in good stead.</p>

6

<p>My older brother was a very weak hs student my younger sister a star. It made not one iota difference in their life. Both have been successes in family and career. In fact I consider my older brother the most well read, well informed member of our family now. My sister would still smoke him on any academic measure. In real life he is every bit as smart as her.</p>

<p>Do not let it bother you.</p>

7

<p>Our two daughters are very similar and they are also 5 years part, so it is not something I've had to deal with. But personally I've had to deal with it growing up. My sister kicked my butt when it came to academic. I had to work hard for my grades, whereas she just breezed through Dartmouth and Stanford law. The interesting thing is she's always wanted to have what I have, which I found out much later. My father didn't help things much by always praising her in front of me.</p>

<p>If I were you, I would discuss their grades separately and privately. I would not make it as a dinner table discussion. I would praise each of them for their achievements outside of academic. I would also make college selection more about fit.</p>

<p>My sister may have done better than me in school, but career wise...:)</p>

8

<p>It's simple. Don't compare them. My brother and I have a similar disparity in grades, and yet the issue has never even come up. My brother, who gets worse grades, is a realist who realizes that he usually gets bad grades, and I usually get good grades. No sense in trying to "hide" that fact. Likewise, whereas I'm aiming for the upper-level UC's, my brother is perfectly fine with aiming for the CSU's. Unless your older son has self-esteem issues, I don't think it should be a big deal.</p>

<p>I don't know why it would be "surprising" that kids of different academic abilities could be friends. Most of my friends have been either academically superior or academically inferior to me, and it's never made one ounce of a difference. If I'm the higher achiever, it feels good for the ego. If I'm the lower achiever, I reap the benefits of hanging around someone who's a positive influence.</p>

9

<p>My kids GPA's are 4.2 vs. 2.4.....but they already know that. They also know "Mr 2.4" is good at other stuff. My brother and I were the same and it's all just funny now!</p>

<p>I still don't compare, nor discuss school as a "family". They were at the same school for a a bit and the teachers seem only to compare their sense of humor......</p>

10

<p>Older D had a much stronger academic profile than D2, but they are 3 years apart and have never attended the same school (in large part b/c of ability disparity), so neither has ever viewed the other as a competitior. Also, D2 has always had far more modest/realistic expectations than D1, who has a rather inflated sense of herself. </p>

<p>Perhaps b/c of the age difference, D1 (now a college soph) understood that a grade of B- is an accomplishment for D2 and D1 was never troubled by the fact that we expected more of her than we did of D2. For her part, D2 is so good natured she is never jealous of D1's stronger academic profile (not that D1 was an academic superstar). For sibs closer in age, discussing grades privately is probably best.</p>

<p>As for college, D2 know she's unlikely to be admitted to D1's LAC, even as a legacy. Again, D2 is untroubled by this ; she is happy to focus on crafting her own list and finding the setting that will be best for her (the current focus in on warmer climes, though she did like UVM).</p>

11

<p>Do not tie love or priveleges to grades. Expect each child to work up to his/her ability. My parents tried to be fair to the 3 of us, it is hard when I was the star, sister a grade ahead borderline for honors classes and younger brother dropped out of college eventually. I could have used more praise for other qualities and more recognition for my hard work from my parents. Your kids have different expectations in life and you should too. My sister resented doing some college/scholarship application stuff as a dry run so parents knew what to do for me (I never asked for it, I was the younger kid). Poor brother was 4 grades behind me and my legacy was felt by him in HS- I can't help it if I was an academic star and therefore well known, I was gone and unaware. I only have one child and it was hard to find a balance of recognizing his stellar performances without feeling like a broken record. You can have discussions about this with each child- let them know you love them and want to praise them but also are aware of how the other child will feel- their responses may surprise you and help you feel good about your parenting.</p>

12

<p>It doesn't matter if you compare them, they will do it for you. So it is really important to praise them for academics/work ethic separately. More important still is to praise them both for their non-academic successes and qualities. They are far more than the grades they bring home so make sure they know that you know that. I am the mom of twins and have made a point of never talking about ther comparitive academic strengths in front of them but yep...they do it in spite of me. It's a sibling thing that is impossible to get away from.</p>

<p>Also it may be worthwhile to step away from CC comparisons when thinking about your older boy's college chances. My nephew had a 2.9 w/ decent but not fabulous SATs he was accepted to 4 of his 5 schools and really truely is having a wonderful time at his school and getting a great education. Focus on fit not prestige and you will see lots of doors open for him. Even if you only have one public U, lots of states have tuition exchanges with neighboring states that make going oos to a public almost as inexpensive as staying in. Check out the thread on "lesser known" schools for ideas. </p>

<p>Also get your 11th grader started on SAT and ACT testing this winter if you haven't already so that you get a baseline with which to calculate his chances. You will find that there are lots of places that will be delighted to welcome your hard working son into their classrooms.</p>

13

<p>This is a big, big issue -- for me personally (yeah, my older sister was one of those kids) and for our two boys.</p>

<p>First of all, I must recommend a book: Siblings Without Rivalry. When I was pregnant with #2, I read it, and I've probably read it five times since then. Lots of good advice, very very readable. The basic message is, Don't compare them to each other in front of each other. </p>

<p>They know who gets good grades and who doesn't. It's not like you're hiding it, or lying to them. But find something to praise in both of them, and never never compare them to each other to each other.</p>

<p>The fact that they're so close in age makes it tough; they're going through the same things very close to each other. S1 might need tutoring for the SATs; S2 might not. Take S1 to his tutoring sessions just as you would to physical therapy sessions or piano lessons. Don't hide where you're going, but don't focus on it either.</p>

<p>They will decide how they feel about themselves and about each other from how you indicate you feel about their differences.</p>

14

<p>We have the same, just a year but miles apart academically, both now in their twenties. Night and day is no exaggeration. </p>

<p>You (purposely) didn't mention if they're the same or opposite sex. Ours are opposite...I always thought that was helpful. Both of your children are totally aware of their differences, and have been for years; you don't have to hide that and you don't have to tiptoe, just be tactful in your praise when both are present. Be careful there, I learned this early on. I never mentioned either kid's SATs or grades to the other. They managed to find out but not from me. </p>

<p>Only in recent years have I been able to discuss with younger child how naturally intelligent older child is...younger will usually initiate the subject. But I also discuss, with older child, the many talents younger has...athletic, hard-working, naturally likable. Finally, at this age , each can truly admire the other's talents, which is nice to see. They both work, more "academic" makes a good amount more than sibling, but I doubt there's an iota of difference in their overall happiness.</p>

15

<p>We are in the same boat except the older bro. is the high achiever and 3 yrs. younger bro. has always been the "do just enough to get by" kid, not seeming to care that he didn't get straight A's like his big bro. who did it with minimal effort. </p>

<p>Younger S is of course aware of the academic disparity (even though S2 didn't put in great effort, he really is not as academically gifted as S1) and once in awhile in a disagreement (with me) he would pull out the old "I can't help it I'm not as smart as big bro." card. I don't think it bothered him that much but it was convenient to throw that card on the table now and then when defending some horrible grade or the like. </p>

<p>Younger bro. was a four year starter on the football team in h.s so he derived a lot of self satisfaction (and praise from us parents) on his effort and success in that arena.</p>

<p>My kids never really did a lot together in h.s so there was no comparison between their friends. Our h.s is so big that S2 managed to get all the way through with only having one teacher that big bro. also had. That helped too.</p>

<p>They are both at different state u's now (one more highly ranked than the other). One on full scholarship, the other on the Mom and Dad pay plan. They are both very happy in their own realm.</p>

<p>Just treat them like the separate individuals they are. It does get dicey sometimes but it's prob. more worrisome for you than for them.</p>

16

<p>I'm with Marite. Concentrate on the elder one this coming year. Maybe you can take his sib for a meal and a coffee on his own, and explain to him how important it is to find the right college for his brother, and that next year it will be his turn. If they are close, he may even have some extra imput on his brother's dream school. Explain about fit, and that although he probably won't be looking at the same colleges, he can learn a lot about the application process. Ask him to avoid snide comments such as "X college, that's for dummies". Good luck, I'm sure you'll do fine, and so will they.</p>

17

<p>D compares herself to her older brother, and has commented that she wants to go to a "better" school than he's attending. Since S was such a high achiever, I think D often feels inferior and now wants to be validated by a more prestigious college acceptance. S is at Dartmtouth, so unfortunately in her mind this goal entails getting into HYPS or Penn Wharton--an extremely difficult feat for even the truly brilliant student, which she's not. However, D does have excellent athletic aiblity which may actually help her achieve her goal. But here's the question: should I encourage this desire or not? I've done both. I've told her to go for it, but at other times (like when she's up extremely late finishing HW, or she's really disorganized or undisciplined), I admit to having told her she's not cut out for a school like that. She believes she fits at a HYPSW, so when I try to suggest to her that maybe she doesn't, she takes it as I don't think she's as smart as her brother and is hurt.</p>

18

<p>OP, you're getting some great advice here.</p>

<p>The only thing I'll add (as someone with close siblings, and the mom of three in a row) is that you must be doing something right if your kids are still good friends. If they sensed a difference in how you feel about them based on their abilities, their friendship would dissolve quickly. This sounds odd, but now and then I've shared some "less than perfect" anecdotes about the "perfect" kid (or about myself) with one of the younger ones, when they've had a sub-par outcome in something. I've seen them express visible relief when they realize everyone at our house has flaws, no matter how they might seem. I've never seen them use this as ammo against each other, thank goodness. I guess that's the risk...</p>

19

<p>I feel a lot of the emotional issue is derived from the personality of the kids. My middle kid is the powerhouse achiever. They all have similar IQs, they are equally 'intelligent' but D2 has the competitive drive to never miss a beat and be in the very top group. She also is an athlete who has been in the international arena and who is one of those kids beloved by coaches for her sportsmanship, so there are a ton of recognitions coming her way.</p>

<p>My oldest skipped a grade on her way into HS, in some ways that was had as she was not in the top 3-5 of her grade, rather 2nd decile, so not as much recognition, however, it was also great that she was farther ahead of D2, as she avoided the daily grind of hearing about D2's amazing prowess. Our school was big on recognising all three achievements- academic, athletic, and artistic, but that assumes you have some achievement worth mentioning at the assembly.</p>

<p>D1 would have shriveled a bit having to listen to all the glory, D1 just was more like a normal kid and took longer to determine who she was and what she wanted out of life. Now life is good, but until that happened, it was difficult for her to hear all D2s glory, because D2 was not troubled by those life goal questions.</p>

<p>D3 also skipped a grade bringing her closer to D2, but D3 was not really bothered by hearing it all. D3 was annoyed at times, and laughed about the fact that never more than one week went by without a mention of big sis at the big school assembly. D3 is amazing in her own way, but not a way that was necessarily recognized with quantitative achievement and we discussed that often- you don't get prizes for being a happy well-adjusted person!</p>

<p>D3 found it was more students than teachers who rubbed in how good her sister was and D3 had absolutely no interest whatsoever in pursuing high level sports. There is not a competitive bone in her body, whereas D2 is incredibly competitive, so there was not a direct correlation.</p>

<p>But, I was aware of it with all three all their lives.</p>

<p>A good friend has Ds 1 year apart, both bright, both athletic, both lovely and her D2 has always felt inadequate to her big sis who is very competitive and just slightly better at those things. It was really sad, the D2 was a great kid and a great HS varsity athlete, the sister had potential to be a college athlete. Had the little sis been the only kid she would have felt great, but she compared herself to her sister and to her other amazing friends (my D2) who were all athletic and intense.</p>

20

<p>Well, we have that situation in reverse here too. Older brother was a NMF & got into a very good U with generous merit award, studying engineering. Younger sister graduated a year early (due to circumstances which were forced upon us) with a GED & has attended local community college for 3 semesters & is now transferring to join brother at the same U -- no merit award, no clear idea of field of study but very excited to be able to attend the U (it was the only application she submitted). </p>

<p>Both of the kids are bright and somewhat lazy, but S can get away with it (learns new things very easily & studies independently very well--intense), but D has to put in more work or really pays the price when she tries to learn things at the last minute. D understands people much better than S & both agree on that. She also enjoys writing, listening to music & learning languages much more than he does. He loves origami & playing with tech things & video/computer games & watching sports.</p>

<p>Both recognize that it isn't fair how things turn out but are still best friends most of the time. We never compared or commented about their grades and honeslty praised them when they worked hard and did well (giving them some criticism when we knew they didn't try, regardless of the result--often they got a good grade anyway).</p>

<p>Kids KNOW that they aren't born with equal natural gifts and that they have to work differently to get what they want. No one has to rub it in that one kid is taking the uber-competitive classes and sailing along while the other is struggling in the basic courses. This is an extremely common situation and they are used to friends falling all over the spectrum as well. My D has friends who were early admits to ivies while she bided her time at the local community college. It has not impaired their friendship & they don't think less of her or she more of them because of their different situations.</p>

<p>I think we need to give our kids credit for finding their way & think of each as an individual. I would not have chosen the path either of my kids have taken but have enjoyed helping them along on their respective journeys. Each time we have decisions to make, we explore the ones available and try to make the choice that seems best for the individual & so far it has been working better than expected.</p>

<p>We really do "overthink" all of this and things turn out much more amazingly than we expect sometimes. D is very happy she'll be joining her friends & brother at a college she really didn't think would accept her. She's the 1st person ever from the community college to be accepted at this prestigous private U.</p>