Sigh..educated another parent

Parents Forum
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<p>shob – Our (private) school handles PSAT sign up for 10th and 11th grade and has the kids take it on a weekday. They also pay the fee. My public district relies on the kids to see the counselor, take the test at a nearby school on a Saturday and the kids pay the fee to the counselor who sends in all materials. NO ON_LINE for PSAT. </p>

<p>The SAT, ACT and SAT subject tests for both our private and public are all done on-line by the student.</p>

<p>OP - Our public school is terrible at College Admissions. The counselor told kids they couldn’t get into many schools and discouraged all reaches but the Ivies – kind of backward. Pushes many to the directional state schools and third tier privates. Our private school is not very good either. Very focused on regional schools and lack of focus on COA. </p>

<p>criz - I have a bit of a different take - Yes CC is a narrow and skewed view. Yes, I know many local kids very happy with their college choices without crazy planning and research. But many of them will not be ok in the long run IMO. Folks in my blue collar, low middle class town, don’t blink twice at taking on debt of $40-100k. It is a necessary cost to get to the next level as many are 1st generation college. All the families hear is the earning difference of college educated without thoughts of the restrictions due to debt.</p>

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<p>My son’s private school was fabulous regarding all things getting into college - even having a required course for all juniors starting in Jan of that year and going until Dec when all applications were required to be in the GC’s office. They did everything from creating lists of schools to visit to working on their essays to final submission of apps. They submitted them in the GC’s office with the GC sitting next to them. He also proofed everything. We never even saw our son’s apps or essays. All we had to do was take him to visit the schools. This alone was worth the cost of tuition, imo. </p>

<p>The GC is very aware of every school and works very hard getting the right mix to apply to. plus making sure those who need merit aid/FA have schools on their lists which will satisfy that. That may be one of the reasons his school doesn’t have a long list of kids going to Ivies or other schools which give no merit/little merit.</p>

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<p>“I have had similar conversations with parents. It makes me tired, and sad.”</p>

<p>Me too. I agree that some parents turn a fairly straightforward process into rocket science. But there are also a lot of parents who assume “the high school knows a lot more about this stuff than me … I’m gonna let them handle it.” Sometimes I feel like asking “If your kid was arrested would you simply leave the kid in jail and ASSUME things would turn out OK?”</p>

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<p>This thread makes the case for the value in hiring an independent consultant. Too many parents really are clueless about the entire college testing, selection and application process. High school counselors are stretched very thin and don’t have the time to focus on the individual needs and best fit for each student.</p>

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<p>@longhaul </p>

<p>Yeah, I cringe when I hear about a hard-working, low income family taking on too much school debt. In most cases they don’t have a choice as the student involved might have average stats that don’t warrant merit aid. However, it is those families that have exceptional students that don’t do their research and just assume they can’t afford to send their son or daugther to a top LAC or Ivie and therefore that student aims at the stateflagship(not knocking them as some states have exceptional ones) or marginal, regional school and that student and their family ends up paying 15-30 k more a year when a little research would have landed a possible acceptance and great need-based aid at an Ivy or top LAC. Most uniformed parents just assume that those schools are financially “untouchable,” and even when their student shows an interest they just dismiss it and say, “we can’t afford X, sorry!” It is these circumstances that make me sad.</p>

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<p>The only thing my parents did was give me financial info; everything else I did myself. It really wasn’t hard, just time-consuming.</p>

<p>@DowneasterDad - that is exactly what could have happened to me, and I’m glad CC helped me avoid it.</p>

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<p>@turntabler</p>

<p>good for you :slight_smile: Our family only discovered CC after our daughter recieved her first “likely,” this past Jan. We were wondering if it was legit and a friend guided us to a cc thread about them. I’ve been posting/visiting cc ever since even though our D stays away and wishes I would as well. Although it can be sometimes addicting and sometimes controversial I have found the majority of the posters and threads informing.</p>

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<p>my S says the same thing, then in the next breath will say</p>

<p>“ask your friends on THAT website about XXXX for me”! </p>

<p>I am actually glad that he is not on this site. It makes me second guess enough, he does not need that. But I am so grateful for all of the help. We would be in that middle class that were taking on way too much debt if it were not for CC. We had no idea that admissions/financial aid/merit aid were not handled the same at each school. Silly us! </p>

<p>The really good thing about CC is that college admissions is not a static process. It is different from year to year, and honestly, from EA to last minute submissions! This site allows for up to the minute feedback and is free. </p>

<p>I am not for a college counselor for our family, but I am a micromanager in my family. I think that there are family’s that do need the outside help because of their lifestyle and life experiences. I would be second guessing the college counselor every step of the way. Better that I do it myself!</p>

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<p>Our parent association had a get together for parents near the end of 10th grade, and asked parents who had already been throught the college search process to wear a special nametag so people could ask us questions. It was a great idea, and I know I had a lot of conversations that night that helped get people at least started in the right direction. I probably could have put a sign around my neck that said “Fiske” and “College Confidential, but don’t let the Ivy League forums discourage you”. :D</p>

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<p>When my oldest D was a freshman, I read a note in the letter the school administration sent home in the summer asking for parent volunteers to help in the College and Career Center. I answered the call and over the next three years, I learned a lot about colleges, applications, testing, financial aid and scholarships. Not to mention, I got to know the counselors well. </p>

<p>If you have the opportunity to do the same, I’d take it!</p>

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<p>LMNOP- you are assuming that our schools have a college and career center! LOL- I wish they did. All they have at S school is a helf with college guides in the library, and a table to college literature in teh guidance office. </p>

<p>Sounds like your school is much more on the ball than many others are!</p>

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<p>I suppose we are, vlines, and it is not because we are a high school in a great neighborhood. Only 25% of our graduating class goes directly into a 4 year school…there is a “college and career technician” who staffs the center (gets paid secretary type salary)–and the parent volunteers.</p>

<p>This technician takes a lot of workload off the GCs–she is there to answer all questions about testing, she collects info and puts together a monthly scholarship bulletin, she canvasses the community for scholarships and put together the annual students’ award night. She collates all the information that comes in on the senior surveys (so that the school can report how many of the senior class go to 4 year schools, 2 years schools, etc.) and she does any pet project the GCs may require. [There is a financial aid expert funded by a grant who comes in 2 afternoons a week and works with low income kids to help them navigate that morass.]</p>

<p>And she handles work permits!</p>

<p>She’s a great person–and many of her parent volunteers are still working there, long after our students have graduated. I’m on year 12…</p>

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<p>“When my oldest D was a freshman, I read a note in the letter the school administration sent home in the summer asking for parent volunteers to help in the College and Career Center.”</p>

<p>That’s a wonderful commitment by the HS. Our HS Guidance staff is “other-focused.” Parents volunteers have been politely turned away. The Parents College Night is held in Spring of Junior year, and Naviance passwords are provided as students finish Junior year. The Guidance office is closed over the summer, and spends September getting students into classes. Are these the reasons Vals and Sals typically attend 2nd and 3rd Tier colleges? Probably not … but they sure don’t help.</p>

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<p>One of the schools my DDs attended had a college information night at the end of junior year. They said to take AP courses (kids had already selected courses for the next year), take the PSAT for national merit (yet it was purely optional and not very well explained and offered months earlier) and the standard “people who make $200,000 get financial aid so don’t let costs discourage you.” It was a waste of time for parents at that point.</p>

<p>It was a small town with kids who usually just went to the local college if they went at all-a dynamic that rapidly changed in just the three years we lived there. So at least they were making a start at providing information.</p>

<p>Luckily, the first high school that my kids attended was much more on the ball. I did complain to the career center director later and pointed out how the timing would be much more beneficial for 10th grade parents. They were planning to change it the next year to include both 10th and 11th, so I felt like maybe someone was helped.</p>

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<p>Frankly, I don’t understand all the “sighing”. Either share your knowledge and help kids understand the intricacies and scope of the process, or don’t. </p>

<p>My son switched to a teeny private boarding school after 8th grade. His 11th grade class totals 92 kids with four full time college counselors on staff. Once the seniors are all settled in, usually by March…it’s all college, ALL the time for the Junior grade. Not the case in the public school he left behind. So I happily share all of the information I get with my friends…deadlines for testing, suggestions for class scheduling, I welcome them to tag along on open houses. And I don’t waste alot of energy patting myself on the back for the effort. </p>

<p>As previously noted, CC is an amazing resource but it’s not the real world. Most parents aren’t plotting high school course schedules for their child while they’re in 6th grade. Most kids aren’t “chancing” themselves for Harvard when they’re 13. </p>

<p>Perspective.</p>

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<p>Whenever I am in OP’s situation, I just tell the person to use CC, just read through it, at least. ESPECIALLY if they NEED MONEY or have a candidate with unique goals. I have referred many people to this site. Who knows if they actually use it, but I feel assured that whatever info is out there, it can be found here. It does take some effort on their part, but that is how it works.</p>

<p>My knock against private school College Counseling, which SHOULD be up to par, is that these counselors do NOT work on Financial Aid and Merit Scholarships. It is a very serious problem. The parents do not know to ask, and they counselors do not ask the kids or parents what they can afford, let alone show them how it all works and what needs to be done. So many kids get into places they cannot possibly attend- it is sad and a waste. Plenty of private school kids are on scholarship for HS, too- so there is NO excuse for this!</p>

<p>I have also been disappointed with how nothing starts up on college counseling about what courses to take, what EC’s make sense, what to do over the summers until the end of 11th grade, when it is basically too late to do all that much about these parts of the profile. Talk about adding catch-up pressure, even though the schools say they wait to reduce the pressure!
It is also hard to visit schools when the talk starts that late… and the kids at boarding schools (esp those with Sat classes) are particularly disadvantaged when it comes to visits, so I say start sooner to give more time for that over breaks. This past month at my D’s BS, I would not be surprised if 50% of the class was not out on any given day in April, and if 30% of the class was visiting schools for the first time; i.e. some kids were away over 1/3 of the month seeing multiple schools. It is very hard to miss things at BS, harder than at a day school, but it had to be done by many this month. </p>

<p>Last, the counselors at non-specialty privates know almost NOTHING about Arts-oriented applications: the Supplements, the coaching, the auditions, the trial lessons, the summer programs. GRRRR… This segment of applications should be supported just the way the athletes trying to get recruited are guided, and both groups need to start no later than Sept of 10th Grade for a thorough job.</p>

<p>No, college counselors at private HS (experience with many throughout my family, plus many publics, but these are another story) definitely do NOT do EVERYthing. I think it is important for the parents to be involved, interested and well-informed.</p>

<p>Yup, my family makes fun of me for using CC, but boy do they forget how much I learned and they benefitted from on this site!!!</p>

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<p>@JoBenny</p>

<p>I don’t think all the “sighing” is directed at the fellow parents but at the system which allows families to fall thru the cracks. YES, it is up to the individual parents to take an active roll in their child’s educational future but sometimes you’ll have HSs/BSs that could do a better job getting more word/info out on the steps in the process, especially to those families who have parents working long hours with not enough time to actively investigate the basics.</p>

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<p>I have been a “sigher” the last 6-7 years. I live in one of the rural, small school areas where the parents are completely clueless and rely completely on the GC–very much to their detriment in terms of financial aid, admittance, etc. </p>

<p>I knew nothing when I started and yes, it pains me these parents don’t care enough to put in a little effort. It’s not rocket science; it just takes some time and energy.</p>

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<p>I sigh too. Those counselors at some of these schools that have college prep student should know more and be more helplful in giving information on the process. It’s their job to do so. I 'd like to do more than sigh. I’d like to do some backside kicking.</p>

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<p>“Last, the counselors at non-specialty privates know almost NOTHING about Arts-oriented applications: the Supplements, the coaching, the auditions, the trial lessons, the summer programs. GRRRR… This segment of applications should be supported just the way the athletes trying to get recruited are guided, and both groups need to start no later than Sept of 10th Grade for a thorough job.”</p>

<p>The Sr. class before my son’s sent two kids to Julliard and one to Tisch. I have no idea if anything extra was done for these kids but they had to take the applying to college class just like all the other kids so I’m sure the GC was up on all aspects of applying to audition programs. </p>

<p>Also, my son’s school has a mandatory meeting in January with GC that both the parents and student must attend to discuss all aspects of the college search (including asking us if we were looking for FA/Merit.) His school also has a evening session for all jr. parents in the spring regarding financial aid. They bring in experts on the subject who do presentations and we were given tons of information which we found extremely useful. All this at a not very expensive day school. </p>

<p>OTOH, my sister swears she had to have a private college counselor even though her daughter was at Loomis.</p>