<p>iirc, yes 10char</p>
<p>Have been reading the forum page in the Straits Times for the past weeks, and I took note of the debate resulting from an article titled "Don't sniff at our education system" by Prof Kishore Mahbubani, dean of LKY Public Policy School.</p>
<p>Many parents have written to oppose the views expressed in this article. One of the main trust is that it is not that students and parents 'sniff' at an education locally in NUS, NTU or SMU; but because they were not chosen by the university to be admitted into the faculty of their own choice, and had to pursue their dreams overseas. Another parent also wrote to comment that Prof Mahbubani's own 3 children are pursuing overseas degree themselves, lending less credibility to his words. Mahbubani's defense is, it was his children's 'own choice' and further added 'how many children do you know that actually listens to their parents'.</p>
<p>I would love to see Singaporeans on CC give their take on this worthy topic.</p>
<p>For myself, I am in favor of progressively raising the stature of NUS and other Singapore universities through all means necessary (money, rankings, propaganda etc.), which is what I see Prof Mahbubani's article to be really about. However, I also understand the frustration of 'heartlanders' of not being able to pursue subjects of their choice (in the singaporean context, mostly medicine, business and engineering). This is a complex question because it raises larger issues such as societal prestige and monetary rewards of certain professions, which is countered through the various universities maintaining a quota on admission to certain departments. This is an important policy to ensure a sustainable local workforce, all the more critical in a small country like singapore with no natural resources or privilege of having a good social welfare system.</p>
<p>In short everyone wants to be (or wants their children to be) the respected doctor or biomedical scientist earning more than a comfortable salary, but the sad truth is not everyone can be or should be. Hence the meritocratic system. If your child is not competitive enough to be accepted locally, you have the option of sending him or her abroad (if you have the money to do so). However, don't be a cry baby and say it's the local universities' fault if the child doesn't get what he wants.</p>
<p>AMENDMENTS:</p>
<p>1) The article was not written by Prof Mahbubani but was from an interview with him by a Straits Times reporter.</p>
<p>2) He has 3 children but only his older 2 are in the U.S. pursuing tertiary education, his youngest is 17 yr old.</p>
<p>My other comments still stands.</p>
<p>The article:
[url=<a href="http://straitstimes.com/Insight/Story/STIStory_268221.html%5DInsight%5B/url">http://straitstimes.com/Insight/Story/STIStory_268221.html]Insight[/url</a>]</p>
<p>Can NUS/NTU/SMU really match top universities in the States? Compare the comments from students interviewed for the article regarding Alumni donations(Give</a> to varsity? No, thanks) and the comments from Singaporean students who have studied overseas(go browse this thread) --the contrast is strikingly obvious. I want to go to the States for a liberal arts education and spend the best four years of my life; I don't want to go to NUS for a degree and spend four years of my life. </p>
<p>By the way, NUS dropped from 19 to 33, didn't mention that, eh? Sounds a little like cherry-picking facts to me.</p>
<p>I obviously agree that NUS/NTU/SMU cannot match top universities in the states and the uk (then again, you have to quantify what you mean by top universities). However, your argument based on comments from Singaporean local graduates is tenuous at best.</p>
<p>My purpose was not to argue that Singapore universities are on par with top US universities (if we are talking about HYPMS), but if Singaporeans are simply 'dishing' NUS, or overlooking NUS, based on unsubstantiated reasonings, and overrating a great many overseas universities when comparing NUS to them.</p>
<p>As to cherry-picking, of course that's cherry-picking, I don't think any university would volunteer bad news........</p>
<p>In general, do not rush your scores. Unless it's different from regular decision (since you send ED applications Nov 1 but e.g. for UChicago the AdCom only looks at the files a month later), rushed scores generally make it more difficult for adcoms, since they occur by paper rather than electronically.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Hence the meritocratic system. If your child is not competitive enough to be accepted locally, you have the option of sending him or her abroad (if you have the money to do so). However, don't be a cry baby and say it's the local universities' fault if the child doesn't get what he wants.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>But unlike in say the US, the education system is mostly in the public sector -- and economic inefficiency tends to seep in whenever market forces are prevented from sending price signals so the economy can respond appropriately. </p>
<p>Think about it. Singapore should actually have a flourishing of different universities -- some big and some small. But no, the government wants to set quotas -- not very different from a Soviet-style planned economy. It's not always the students' fault if the system suffers from a lack of economic freedom. Meritocracy my ass.</p>
<p>i chanced upon this site when i was doing research for US colleges.
glad to know that there are singaporeans here! =)</p>
<p>i'm utterly confused about the application process for international students
i'm in nyjc, preparing for my A levels.
my school doesn't have a US university counselor and they basically don't really mention much about overseas university applications.
i've been trying to find as much information as i can on my own but i would like to find out more about experiences and opinions of singaporeans</p>
<p>is it an absolute necessity to have at least SAT I scores on top of good(great?) A level scores?
How was the application process like? (writing personal essays etc)
I'm interested in applying to Wellesley, Cornell, Princeton but i'm not sure i can secure a scholarship.
has anyone gotten an overseas scholarship?
these schools have need-blind finaid though.</p>
<p>I would greatly appreciate any help rendered! (sorry for the long post ;p )</p>
<p>hey! if your school can't help much, then perhaps RJC can: [USapps[/url</a>]</p>
<p>To answer your questions, yes, it is absolutely necessary to have SAT I scores. For the schools you're applying to, SAT IIs are needed too. And no, out of these 3 schools, only Princeton has need-blind financial aid, so you might want to think about getting a scholarship.</p>
<p>The application process is long, tedious, and very energy-sapping, so it's a lot of hell for us Singaporeans who have to prepare for the A-levels at the same time. If you haven't started now, you better. Get the application forms ready, print out the teacher recommendation forms and give to your teachers so they have enough time to write good recs. The personal essays are not exactly meant for showcasing your accomplishments; there're other sections in your application form for that. You need to write about a personal experience, your thoughts and opinions, or anything else that gives admission officers a glimpse into your character and preferably moves or makes a lasting impression on them. The more schools you apply to, the more essays you're gonna have to write. 3 should be pretty manageable, but expect to spend nights writing and re-writing draft after draft to come ever so close to perfection but to never attain it. </p>
<p>It looks like you haven't taken the SATs. It's already August 30th. Take a look at the test calendar:</p>
<p>[url=<a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/calenfees.html%5DSAT">http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/calenfees.html]SAT</a> Dates - SAT Test Dates and Registration Deadlines](<a href="http://www.rjc.edu.sg/usapps/StartHere/overview.asp%5DUSapps%5B/url">http://www.rjc.edu.sg/usapps/StartHere/overview.asp)</p>
<p>Register by Sep 9 if you want to take the Oct test. You have 3 tries, Oct Nov and Dec, the scores from which all schools accept for Regular Decision. Some schools accept Jan test scores, some don't. </p>
<p>Good luck, and do stay around these boards, we'll be glad to help :)</p>
<p>@ #1067</p>
<p>it's actually an anomaly for there to be ANY non-public presence in the (tertiary) education sector, the US is exceptional in this regard. to list 2 examples, all universities in germany are state-run, while the only private school in britain with a physical plant is the university of buckingham. yes, oxford and cambridge are state schools. </p>
<p>in fact, when global contrasts are made, non-government interests in singapore probably have a greater role to play then elsewhere. SIM, for example, is a private organisation that laudably fulfills a niche (or rather, glaring lack) that the big 3 schools- which by any measure provide solid, comprehensive education, do not fill, catering as it does to less academic individuals and mature learners. similarly, the foreign universities setting up outposts in singapore, UNSW debacle aside, will provide alternative opportunities for students, whereas citizens in most other countries do not have such similar avenues.</p>
<p>i'd even contest your primary assumption (try to refrain from using weasel words and phrases like "soviet-style planned economy" until you've actually taken your first university econs class). the track record proves the government has by and large got education right, your repeated remonstrations aside, NUS and NTU are globally very well-established and well-regarded and do a solid job of providing quality education far better than most of the US' state university systems. it even responds relatively well to change, it was on the money about SMU (a smaller university that would seem to fulfill your diversity criterion), which clearly met a burgeoning demand for business and other professional degrees.</p>
<p>please don't mistake my statements as an attempt to rain on your singapore-hating parade though.</p>
<p>singapore sucks us rulez!!!!!!!!!!111111</p>
<p>@ #1068</p>
<p>screwitlah provides some very good pointers, but for a more comprehensive guide on how to complete a university application, i'd suggest referring to the universities' admissions departments. when, being a singaporean/international, idiosyncrasies start surfacing (e.g. references to gpa, etc), feel free to ask specific questions on the forum and i'm pretty sure you'll receive quick replies.</p>
<p>personally, i think the 3 on your list are very very different; they share nothing but extreme prestige and selectivity. you might want to read up more on the characteristics of different colleges in the US, and tailor the schools you'll eventually apply to to your interests and priorities.</p>
<p>lastly, uh, technically speaking, cornell and wellesley ARE need-blind, just not to internationals (;</p>
<p>Ummm ... European schools are not a very good example of promoting social mobility. Yes, there are "elite schools" in Europe, but if you look at the university system in France for example, it is almost entirely permeated by class lines -- especially when you look at the demographics of the students going into the Grandes Ecoles. Then look at HYPS, etc. and you see that the old classes that used to characterise schools of that sort have faded into the minority. </p>
<p>I'm not out to "hate" Singapore -- but it makes no sense to preach to the choir. There are elements of the education system that do work -- and this is the part where I also criticise the US education system in front of Americans and cite the strength of the Singaporean system. Does "don't preach to the choir" mean nothing to you guys?? </p>
<p>
[quote]
try to refrain from using weasel words and phrases like "soviet-style planned economy" until you've actually taken your first university econs class
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Zomg, I got 5s on all the AP exams I took, including AP Economics except AP physics. (I didn't want to boast, but :p)</p>
<p>(but yes, I couldn't enter my first "real" college-level econs class at UVA, never mind that AP coursework is supposed to be at the college level, thanks to the sheer popularity of Prof Elzinga [and a bit of Mirman] forcing the classes to be on waitlist.) </p>
<p>
[quote]
NUS and NTU are globally very well-established and well-regarded and do a solid job of providing quality education far better than most of the US' state university systems.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Umm, except they are such a small collection of schools. Take a look at the University of California system for example .... the big names are supported with a whole host of collection of "smaller-name" schools. Now of course I realise California has a bit more population than Singapore, but I am talking in terms of scaling the system. "Far better than most of the US' state university systems"?? Sure, it's just like UK's Oxbridge does better than most of the US' state university systems too. But at least in the UK, Oxbridge is not the only universities .... but in Singapore, a "community college" is unheard of. </p>
<p>And as a last thing, I'll say that libertarianism and the Austrian School of Economics are the way to go.</p>
<p>thanks for all your help!
were the SATs difficult?
for example the essay component?
i'm thinking of registering for the oct test but as i'm preparing for my prelims now i don't know if i'll be well-prepared for the SAT in Oct.
(btw, can we take chinese as a SAT II subject?)</p>
<p>don't take. some schools specifically tell people not to take their native languages, and i doubt the rest'll look favourably. they're for subjects which you've spent 3-4 years in highschool learning, not 12 years of full-time study. haha :p</p>
<p>SATs .. well to achieve ~2000 is definitely possible but 2200+ should need some degree of revision. to put this in context, i got 2360 but i'd daresay i've an extensive vocabulary. perhaps taking in nov (i dont know when your a levels end) might be a valid option. </p>
<p>are you male or female? haha</p>
<p>If you take it in Nov it will be smack in the middle of A-levels =p.</p>
<p>female =)</p>
<p>i just did the practice test on collegeboard.com, can't say i did too well (just a little above average, i guess) :(
i probably should get the official guidebook, huh?</p>
<p>don't think i can take the nov test cuz it's after the my h2cll paper and before gp and h1 maths.
how difficult are SAT II subject tests?
i'm in the arts stream (very unusual combi btw) so maybe literature and history?</p>
<p>i don't know about the arts sats but the science sats cover considerably less curriculum than the a level syllabus. math level IIC you should def take since some schools require math SAT. </p>
<p>[btw if you wanna buy SAT reasoning book pm me. haha]</p>
<p>hm yeah, if you have the time, get some practice tests and tell us how much you get. the SATs are v v impt. whether or not it's difficult is really up to you and your ability. :)</p>
<p>yeah, frank is right, november is definitely out for you. so you're gonna have to do both Oct and Dec to get your SAT I and IIs. don't take Chinese SAT IIs, it's your native tongue and it's unlikely they'd be impressed. </p>
<p>Literature should be pretty easy if you studied them at A levels, though you need to take a look at the world history syllabus and see what you lack. I can't tell you much about this because i'm totally a science stream guy who took science SAT IIs, so ask serf abt that :P The skills and concepts are probably the same though. as usual, take the practice test and see what happens.</p>
<p>world history is balls-easy for anyone who can mug; additionally, it probably has the most lenient curve of all the subject tests. there's a huge variety of topics, but very little depth... you'll definitely need to get a guidebook (and preferably more than one )and then spend a fair amount of time familiarising yourself with the content and getting and some practice, but after that it's more or less regurgitation.</p>
<p>literature, on the other hand, is hard- even for A-level students, the passages assigned are considerably harder than standard A-level texts and the differences between the multiple-choice answers can be hair-splitting. i'm not sure how difficult it is to do DECENTLY (i.e. 650-750) but a perfect/close-to-perfect score is no guarantee regardless of amount of preparation beforehand.</p>
<p>i've been told that, apparently, colleges prefer to see a variety of SAT IIs attempted (e.g. one science, one arts, one math), but i'm not sure how much truth there is to this.</p>
<p>well i took science and math, no arts, and i got in, but that's just one example.</p>