So..... Berurah?

<p>Hi Andi
Your son is uppermost in the mind of many parents on this board since he is the example of an application process that went awry, and of "educated guesses" and readings on selection factors that did not pan out..something we are all very aware could have happened to any of us who had a NMF with a special talent and a great school record from an urban area which produces many great college prospectives yearly...</p>

<p>My son is from a quieter part of the USA and received the opposite results..breaks went his way on admissions, disappointments were fewer, and he was no more "deserving" or unique than your great boy. Geographic location is a huge factor in admissions, as is getting accurate or inaccurate direction from your high school's guidance department, your neighbors, friends and references.</p>

<p>Please do post outcomes on his waitlist situation as your son's well-being means a lot to your CC fellow readers! Surely the universe will right itself and one of his favorite schools will choose to act to correct things. We look forward to better news and wouldn't wish this "character building" experience on any 18 year old who had the right to anticipate some happy admission by now.</p>

<p>I saw your sporadic posts now and then, and you and your S have been in my thoughts a lot. We were extremely lucky - my S had no interest in ivies or LACs and his list was mostly matches and good bets. He is one of those rare folks whose first choice was a match/good bet, and the issue was more how much it would cost. But I know that so many other people were not in that reasonably lucky position. He has a few friends hoping to make it off waitlists too.</p>

<p>I really think that Berurah and Andi's stories are parallel and instructive - for each of them, it sure could have gone the other way. Had Berurah's S been deferred, and Andi's rejected, who knows how they would have revised their lists, and how the RD round might have played out. </p>

<p>I would agree that a thread with posts from both of them would be fabulous to help next year's group of students and parents. A cautionary tale all should read....</p>

<p>Oh, and Andi, while we so often attribute it to the baby boom and increased interest in selective schools, a physician friend of our was in your son's position in the 60s! His GC found him a small liberal arts school in the midwest that had openings, and he attended. Had a fabulous time and became a died-in-the-wool believer that everyone should go to an LAC in the midwest. Sent one D to Grinnell and the other to Brown and preferred Grinnell hands down. Went on to be an extemely successful and happy physician. Here's hoping for a "happily ever after" for your S. And if you need to whine, we're here!</p>

<p>Ok, so here's a possible plan based on Berurah and andi's experience. What do you think?</p>

<p>If the non HYP Ivy is still her clear first choice, I will have my D apply ED to take advantage of her legacy status and the "interest" card. Now, this is going to be the hard part: Get her to have several applications (esp. safeties) out before hearing from the #1 choice. This way, if she gets rejected or deferred, she will already have the other apps out there. This may take a lot of nagging on my part because she is a procrastinator, but it sounds like it may be well worth it.</p>

<p>
[quote]
We look forward to better news and wouldn't wish this "character building" experience on any 18 year old who had the right to anticipate some happy admission by now.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>lastbastion and don't wish this gray-hair-producing experience on any middle-aged mom either!!!!</p>

<p>audiophile that's exactly what I had s#1 do. He was applying to a non-crap-shoot school, but none-the-less, he applied ED and I urged him to finish two other applications and have them all set in the envelopes ready to mail. Happily he was admitted ED and we threw the apps away. It really is the way to go.</p>

<p>wish<em>it</em>was_april thanks for the wonderful story about the physician way back in the 60's :eek: and he's still alive to tell about it. That's reassuring!</p>

<p>and don't wish this gray-hair-producing experience on any middle-aged mom either!!!! {quote}</p>

<p>Indeed! We really are quite sure you also did not "need" this (ahem) Character Building mess either...as a Mom, I am certain you put lots of love, parental guidance, and thought into your son's college preparations, making sure he had the access to music lessons, the support he needed for four years of high school academic work and personal growth, and that his targeted schools were carefully considered with him.<br>
CC reading parents are all behind you and I believe you will find some admissions staffers are going to feel the same way...</p>

<p>Andi, my thoughts are continually with you and your talented son. I do not wish his situation on any student, let alone one with his qualifications. I am keeping positive thoughts that a waitlist will come through (assuming he has done what he can to advocate on that end) or that other plans are in the brainstorming basket as to alternatives for the coming year. You earned those gray hairs, we are behind you 100%. Your son is to be commended for all he has had to endure amongst peers in a different position and all that he has to do in the coming weeks regardless of his disappointment. Surely his character will grow but I don't wish it on anyone. I wish I had "known" you sooner so as to have recommended some schools a "notch down" for his list. I know a boy also in the Boston suburbs at a private school and his list was reasonable but also top heavy. Brandeis was his safety and I personally do no think of it as a safety. I have heard through others that he either got rejected or waitlisted everywhere BUT got into one school, Tufts. Granted, Tufts is a gem (it is even MY alma mater) and so his story is a happier one but otherwise, his outcome is like your son's and he is also a very strong candidate with grades, scores, music, and theater. When I had heard his list, while I thought he'd get into some, I still worried cause of the lack of a true safety. I also read other students' college lists on CC where I also think there is not a true safety and I do worry. I think in your case, there is not much you can do because knowing all this comes from a great deal of research in the current college admissions process and/or advice from a guidance counselor or college advisor in the know. Things have changed in recent years. I know that well meaning local folks would say to my D, "of course you will get into any college you want" because she was such a top student who had the so called "package" of what many think looks good for college but we had to tell people....thanks for the affirmation but we are NOT counting on getting into any of the selective schools because the odds are so slim and they turn away perfectly qualified applicants. Sometimes, I think people must have thought I was not real confident in my kid but it was more that we were both very very very cognizant of the state of elite college admissions today and so just knew NOT to count on schools at this level even IF qualified. Without that knowledge, however, many many folks like you, would assume, RIGHTFULLY SO, that your child could get into at least one or more schools on his list. Times have really changed with regard to this though as you so painfully had to endure. It is so very difficult when a child has done everything "right" so to speak, to have an outcome like this! Again, my heart goes out to your family and I hope you will keep us informed of any news/plans in the coming weeks. I feel hopeful that something of some nature will turn out positively for him and things will work out in some fashion or another. He is just too talented to not eventually have exciting options to consider in his next stage of life. </p>

<p>Berurah....just to pick up on your excellent points...I want to share how my heart also went out to you back in December with the Yale EA rejection. The reason my heart went out to you mostly was cause you guys were so disappointed and discouraged and I felt badly that it had come to that. Of course, a kid would be disappointed but I could tell your family took it very hard. I now understand why.....with the expectations and all that led up to it. I want to just share how my D approached that situation because I hope it will help others. She also applied EA to Yale (the year before in the so called "Yale Massacre" on CC). For her, it was not do or die for Yale. Yes, she loved Yale but she loved most schools on her list (and certainly liked all of them). She had a couple favorites but not one "singular sensation" that it had to be. She had not even totally decided on one clear favorite. Yale was in the upper pile in terms of favorites but she applied there EA mostly cause it had EA which was not a commitment as she was not ready to decide but figured to try EA as it is an increase in odds and she did not choose to do ED to her other faves. Besides that, she applied but did not expect to get in necessarily. It is not that she is not qualified. It is not that she, nor we, did not have confidence in her or her application. But we were just so very aware of the crapshoot lottery nature once a kid had the "right stuff" (and I think she did), that we just assumed she had a very slim chance and if it happened, what a great prize/surprise. Also, while she did indeed put alot into that application as it was the first one, as soon as she finished it in late October, she began each subsequent application, putting as much energy and interest into each and every one (including her safety schools). She never considered waiting for the Yale decision letter to come before doing the other apps. That is how much we never counted on her getting in. It was not like she was reaching too high or anything, but simply the odds were just ridiculously small (and ended up way worse than we even knew because the admit rate dropped considerably that year when they switched to EA at Yale). In fact, by the time the Yale decision came, I think she only had one or two apps left to complete so it was not like she was doing these under any duress or negative emotional state. She got the Yale decision....which admittedly was not the same as your son as it was a deferral....and she looked at it and moved on immediately...never getting upset...she looked at the screen and said, this is what I expected.....and then she did not expect to get in RD but still was interested in the school of course....but truly was interested in her other ones and some equally as much. So, not only was all NOT riding on this school but she entered the lottery as one would enter those scratch off lottery tickets....not expecting to win, ya know? She simply was NOT devastated at all. And so, she had the long wait, like your son, until April (she had NO rolling admissions schools actually so heard nothing until April)....but we felt confident she'd get into some schools, just did not know where. Yale turned out to be the only full rejection she got and like your son, it all ended happy. But there was no devastation along the way. So, that is why I felt so bad for you guys, not cause your son did not get into Yale but on the expectations going into it that here he was such a fine candidate but not knowing that today, that is not enough to bank on! In fact, even our GC, who we love as a person but who does not deal very often with elite admissions, to this day will tell us that he will never get over that our D did not get into Yale even though we told him, we certainly never expected her to and easily understood the outcome because we know the situation, not cause we do not think she is "good enough" to get in. </p>

<p>In any case, that is why I hope those who read CC profusely, learn these "ins and outs" of college admissions today so that they can go into it informed and know what to expect, if ya know what I mean. Sharing your story, and Andi's as well, will HELP many others, believe me. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>These stories really do help. I didn't know about this site when my DD also fell under the hatchet of the Yale EA massacre. The difference was that we visited, and we both fell in love with it! And she had the stats, etc., so we felt that she should at least be waitlisted. Then, the bad news, and she got on a site of admitted students, and found she had better stats (as did berurah's S) to many (not all) who were admitted. If I had known what I have learned on this site, the devastation would not have been as great. She and I would have been prepared. But, because we didn't know and she loved Yale so much, no matter that she has been accepted at other wonderful schools, there is always the feeling that she is "settling." We have been working on changing that feeling due to the information and help from berurah and others on this site. So, andi and berurah, your stories serve as beacons for the rest of the parents out there about to embark on their journeys. Thank you for sharing with the rest of us. You have given me greater insight into the pitfalls and joys of the process.</p>

<p>Susan,</p>

<p>I thank you for sharing your daughter's Yale EA story. It sounds like both she and you handled the EA application process <em>perfectly</em>...presenting the best possible picture through a well-crafted application, but then not having unrealistic expectations afterward.</p>

<p>Actually, my son's reasons for applying early to Yale pretty much mirrored your daughter's. If Duke had been EA instead of ED, he'd have applied there, but since it wasn't, and since our finances precluded us from committing to anywhere ED, he chose to put in an early app. to Yale because he had researched that school as well, and he liked it a great deal.</p>

<p>What happened with us, I think, was what andi mentioned above....we got "caught up" in the process after his having invested so much time, effort, energy, thoughts and dreams on this one school. And the prospect of so much pressure being taken off by mid-December was pretty compelling too. Unlike your daughter, he did not hop on all of the other apps, though most of them were partially done. He still had much to complete, though, after the EA rejection.</p>

<p>Because we had received so very little guidance (son's school RARELY has anyone apply to an elite college, much less get into one), I totally panicked after the early rejection instead of taking it in stride. At that point, I doubted EVERYTHING....our list, his counselor's report, his letters of rec., etc. I KNEW that our school would be relatively weak in the school-related stuff because the GC simply doesn't have the experience or the expertise to put together a very competitive school section of the app. That realization also led to my level of panic.</p>

<p>In the end, I think it was O.K. that my son didn't hop right back into the other apps. After his "grieving" time was over, he did regroup and refocus and was able to write beautiful essays for most of his remaining colleges. I was worried that he wouldn't recover enough to do all of this before the RD deadlines, but he did eventually get them done in good style, if not with time to spare! :) </p>

<p>If I could have just ONE thing back, I'd discover CC a LOT earlier! <em>lol</em> </p>

<p>Thanks for posting. And it's about time for another update on your sweet D!!! How is she doing now??</p>

<p>~berurah</p>

<p>Berurah, that's just the thing...you really did not know (you did not discover CC soon enough! LOL) and you did the best you could do. The best part is the incredible happy ending your son has had. And it really points to the "truth" that my D and I knew going into a selective college admissions process....she and we knew she kinda had "what it takes" to get in but because the odds were slim even for the very qualified types, we knew not to count on her getting into specific reach schools or even match ones, but...and here is the but.....we felt confident she'd get in SOMEWHERE (with a well thought out list) but just did not know where. So, we were not overly concerned even though it was a stressful process but all did not hang on any one particular school plus we simply had a realistic picture after reading CC for over a year prior to the application process. You will certainly know more and more as you get to the next kid on your family list! Now my thoughts are with Andi that her son also ends up with a happy ending that he deserves. And ya know what? My D is very very happy where she is at now and it was NEVER a feeling of having "settled"...so it is all in how ya approach it. </p>

<p>Thanks for asking about my second daughter. It is really late here and we were in Philly for the holiday and so I just spent 8 hours in the car with her today and 9 on Friday. It is one extreme to another. On the NJ end of things, we are talking thousands of cars in bumper to bumper traffic and then on the last hour of our leg home, we are talking of winding through the mountains and never seeing another car at all! (and should I mention that a week ago, one evening, I was driving and saw something ahead of me in the utter darkness that is VT night driving....and luckily I slowed down because THREE HUGE MOOSE were right in the road!!! Thank God, SHE was not driving.....</p>

<p>Anyway, she is doing great...I mean it is not like normal at all but she is up and about...on crutches, in Physical Therapy.....did one week of school part time....as many hours she could take in a chair each day....and then we just had school vacation and she returns tomorrow and is going to try an entire day if she can take it. Has had to make up a bunch of work, got excused from some....not worth getting into all the meetings to settle all that stuff. Over vacation, her Chem Honors teacher came into school to have one on one's with her to teach her what she missed (some teachers are very dedicated and this one is very much so.......even though my daughter hates chemistry unlike your son) and she wrote a 40 page paper (but it was on a topic she loved so it is more like fun for her.....comparing Sondheim to Jonathan Larson). She is disappointed to be missing things that mattered a lot to her, being her "last year".....the musical...and now numerous dance performances. But now she can go to prom and is hoping to be off crutches the day before prom....got a dress....got shoes but is worried how she can walk that first day...so just in case, bought matching flip flops (oy, but c'est la vie). And she is still looking forward to a full array of summer plans that we have not cancelled. That is pretty much the story....people who see her are relieved and amazed, considering the severity of her accident and the days following it. Most of my family saw her for the first time this past weekend. Hope you had a good holiday.
Susan</p>

<p>If only I had known about cc when our D was going through this process 2 years ago. Luckily, she had great college counseling at her school, and we made it through. Still, the disappointments (deferred, then wait-listed by her ED school and waitlisted from 3 others) were more numerous than we thought possible. She is VERY happy at her EA school--and we learned a great deal from that first college admissions experience!</p>

<p>But...we were not prepared for S's SCEA experience (new since D's year of applying). It was such a frustrating process because of the restrictions on other applications. S did get out 2 rolling apps, and we DID know about getting UMich in early (as D was burned on that one!), but those were never his top choices, and it was incredibly hard for him to be deferred SCEA and have to wait so much longer to hear from the schools that really excited him.</p>

<p>I discovered CC in November, and lurked for months. I was too superstitious to post--silly, as I found what everyone has said to be not only very helpful in terms of stats and college info, but also as a comfort--knowing that others were going through similar disappointments, etc. I realize now that I could have been just as much a comfort to someone else as all of you have been to me. I apologize for not "being there" to commiserate, congratulate, etc.</p>

<p>We have 2 more years before S2 starts going through all this--thank goodness! But I promise to be around to be helpful to others going through all this.</p>

<p>Andi--good things are going to happen for your son--I am keeping him in my prayers. I always go back to a favorite line from "The Sound of Music"--"When God closes a door, he always opens a window". I try to keep that in mind when there is disappointment or a seeming dead end to the road taken. I'll be anxious to hear what window is opened!</p>

<p>Berurah,
I am so glad that you found the thread I began, and now it is my turn to apologize for not responding to your response more promptly. I am on a seven college tour with one child while my H is on a tour in another part of the country with another. Actually, I am logged on right now in a college library - getting my CC fix!
As parents of juniors, I have learned so much from so many people here ... you, Andi, SoozieVT (and her older D,) InterestedDad, TheDad ... the list goes on and on. First off, let me congratulate your son and your family on his Duke decision. :) How happy he must be that his dream has truly become attainable. Andi, though we have not "spoken" much, I thank you too for sharing your son's story. Honestly, I think about his situation every day, and I do believe that it will have a happy ending. I have learned from both you and Berurah to be very careful about the lists that my two are developing. It is indeed so easy (too easy) to become enthralled with certain schools and I keep trying to get my kids to understand that. Thankfully, as they are only juniors, they still have a bit more time to hopefully understand this process fully.
As for the college tour, well... everything looks good! Kids are happy everywhere ... everyone we asked applied to a host of other schools, had many acceptances and rejections, and is perfectly happy where he or she is.
It all works out in the end; I'm sure.
Now to convince my D to stop IMing at the computer next to me and get back in the car...</p>

<p>
[quote]
Without that knowledge, however, many many folks like you, would assume, RIGHTFULLY SO, that your child could get into at least one or more schools on his list.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That IS exactly what we thought. We thought ONE would come through. </p>

<p>Glad to hear that your d is making progress and that she's going to the prom. I'm sure the flip flops will look ravishing!! </p>

<p>
[quote]
"--"When God closes a door, he always opens a window".

[/quote]

irishforever I've been repeating that to myself all day. Thanks

[quote]
I apologize for not "being there" to commiserate, congratulate, etc.

[/quote]
No guilt allowed on CC !!!!!!!!! We're happy that you've started posting!!</p>

<p>twinmom I'm laughing at the image of you and D at the library checking out CC and IMing friends!! Too funny.</p>

<p>Andi, I have always used that quote when anyone in our family feels the pain of life's realities smacking them in the face. Each time one of us has faced serious adversity, we keep the "window" in mind, and each time one has opened. I know that will happen for your son--and he will quickly embrace it and the wonderful things it will lead to for him--opportunities that wouldn't be available to him if he had gone to one of the schools that will be missing out on his presence this fall!</p>

<p>And it's nice to know that guilt is not allowed on CC--though I am sooooooo good at guilt!!</p>

<p>Soozievt--I've been following your d's recovery & it seems to be going so well--the flipflops for Prom sound like the fun way to go--there are so many cute ones out there!! She certainly deserves to have a spectacular evening!</p>

<p>Susan,
Glad to know your daughter is doing well....well enough to go in the car to visit relatives. Hope she has a great time at her prom.</p>

<p>soozie - good to hear your D is continuing her recovery.
andi - I too think about you and your son every day and cross my fingers.</p>

<p>Just wanted to add to the Never Count Your Chickens content. We have a GC who is quite used to selective school applications. He told us he "had a good feeling" about my D's Harvard SCEA app. My brother told me of course my D would get in - not that he knows about college admissions or anything. But it wasn't to be. </p>

<p>Luckily, Harvard wasn't my D's first choice, she too applied EA rather than Columbia or Princeton ED because she didn't have a solid first choice. Her EA application was driven by a) no required commitment b) everyone was telling us she should get in c) my dad wanted her to. Like I've said before, dumb dumb dumb. Anyone reading this, be smarter than we were! We generated distress for no reason! Don't use Harvard as your safety lol!!!!If we had really wanted a safety under our belts for EA there was another way to go....</p>

<p>So another piece to add is that with the kids who have checked off all the boxes well-meaning people will tell you of course they will get in to whereever. Don't believe them. It may well happen, but believe what you read here instead.</p>

<p>Thanks for the nice wishes above everyone. </p>

<p>Twinmom, I am laughing at that image at whatever campus you are visiting! You on CC, your D IMing friends back home. You are right that at so many colleges, it seems really great and the kids seem happy who attend. That is why if you have a list of several schools ya like, you really cannot go wrong (well, except the situation that Andi's son is in, which is a worst case scenario, but I meant right now more NOT to have one's heart set on ONE particular school....thank God neither of my kids went that far...because there is definitely MORE than one college where ya can be real happy!).</p>

<p>As far as prom....my D did get a pair of dressy low heeled sandals and I hope she can wear those but she was being realistic I guess that if she is allowed off crutches the day she sees the surgeon (which is the day before prom), that she has no idea if it means she really can walk ok having never put weight on two feet for two months. So, with that concern, she wanted flip flops and I guess she found a matching pair with sparkles no less. She promises that at least for the photo op, that she'll wear the nicer shoes. Actually, don't kids take off their shoes at prom to dance anyway? She is also afraid she won't be able to dance but I remind her that she was not supposed to be able to go to prom cause of her dance performance weekend so just be happy she is going. </p>

<p>Andi, while I agree that you were realistic to think that maybe ONE school would come through....it makes logical and rational sense!, that I'd have been way too worried to count on it without matches/safeties and I only wish I knew you last fall to have discussed this possible reality. I think you did the best you could with the information you knew at that time and actually many in your school or community likely would have acted the same. I told you of another boy in your neck of the woods who had a similarly difficult list with not a good outcome, even if it seemed like a realistic list....but no real safeties. Ya know, there are just too many stellar kids out there!!!!! It is a shame for kids like this cause it is not like he did anything wrong but did everything right. I just so wish you had had better "advice" even though I would have kept the schools on his list, he needed some a notch below just in case. I still have confidence that he can either make a strong case for himself with his waitlists (I hope he has done that and has had a GC also work on his behalf toward this end) OR that you guys have thought of plan B which could also involve some exciting opportunities....be it a gap year, travel, a local program and then transfer, and so forth. I know with his intelligence and talents (and from this character building ordeal), that he will go on to something positive and make his mark. You just gotta get over this hurdle or setback. Fingers crossed....</p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>Yes, fingers crossed for your S andi. Colleges will begin looking at their waitlists next week . . .</p>

<p>Susan You're so right. The fact is we didn't know what we didn't know! That's about the best I can say. We knew we should have safeties (s had a specific agenda which was very picky and limited our choices) but the GC would always suggest schools that just didn't have what he wanted at all. So of course, he would nix them. That combined with the fact that he had a number of friends who went to H, Y and Swat whom he had worked with in music groups, and with whom he could 'identify' really skewed our perceptions. </p>

<p>mstee thanks so much. It feels like we have gone through the process three times in one year. First the EA, then the RD and now the WL. It's like one of those nightmares that you can't wake up from!!!!!!!!!</p>