Some notes on "prestige" and "fit"

Prep School Admissions
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<p>RBGG said<@ggk, bs and cm: Yes. Mr. Ventre has gone out of his way to select kids who are as good if not better than any regional youth symphony…></p>

<p>And, from BayState<they are="" spectacular.="" in="" past="" years,="" they="" have="" played="" at="" the="" white="" house,="" lincoln="" center,="" and="" toured="" europe.=""></they></p>

<p>ANY? Really?? I find that hard to believe. I have heard their music and it’s excellent. But without this conversation devolving into a PEA vs. Pa type thread, I beg to differ. The better regional youth symphonies have hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of highly talented musicians upon whom to draw. And the vast majority of those never consider applying to boarding school. And it is fairly typical for these orchestras to tour Europe and Asia every couple or few years. Likewise Lincoln Center, Carnegie Hall, and other prestigious venues. So it’s not like Choate, or any other school with an excellent music program is the only/best game in town for serious musicians. </p>

<p>All things being equal, surely there MUST be regional orchestras in this vast country of ours that can compete with the admittedly excellent orchestra of a school of under a thousand students (stated with tongue planted firmly in cheek). We spent time with Mr. Ventre. I liked him. Dd was totally turned off. In fact, Choate was the ONLY school that I “made” dd apply to, mostly because of the arts concentration. </p>

<p>All that said, the direction this thread is taking begs the question and would be better left for a separate thread on music, if one were so inclined (not I).</p>

<p>I would like to return to the original, and more general, question of fit. My intention is not to “bash” any school in particular. My original thought was that, since SO MANY of the posters on the CC boards are DESPERATE to get into ACRONYM schools, they might take a long hard look at WHY they feel they MUST go to one of these schools when they really don’t know a lot about a) the schools and – especially in the case of student posters – b) themselves. </p>

<p>I posted because, when we were searching, it became clear that many of the longtime posters on these boards (and thank you to the many of you who posted on THIS thread) had a great deal of real insight, and did not simply tout one school over another in GLOBAL terms – rather, they were willing to share their personal experiences. Likewise, I am not trying to “dis” any of the ACRONYM schools… I simply thought sharing our family’s experience might provide guidance by way of illustration.</p>

<p>My way of paying back, or perhaps paying it forward, in this evolving process…</p>

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<p>Girlgeekmom, yes, it did actually come across as dissing.</p>

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<p>“Fit” is truly such an individual thing. DS is a very, very talented musician - but ultimately, he chose a school that, although having a first-rate arts program, does not have an orchestra. Why? Because although he loves music, and plans to continue to play throughout his life, music is NOT his driving passion. He’s very confident that he does not want to major in music in college, or attend a conservatory - at this point, he wants to pursue science, or math, or engineering - but who knows how his interests might change and evolve over the next few years! He decided other aspects of the school (science/math programs and faculty, NAO robotics, fantastic outdoor programs) outweighed the lack of a school orchestra. And as it turns out, he is continuing to study his instrument with an excellent private teacher (who comes to the school for lessons), and she is making sure he has opportunities to perform at a high level (all-state orchestra, concerto competitions with nearby symphonies, etc.) with the support and blessing of the school.</p>

<p>The key is for your child to have a good understanding of what is important - to THEM. (And I must admit - I pushed for a long time that any school we considered HAD to have a great orchestra. What I thought was an “absolute requirement” for a “good fit” turned out to be incorrect.)</p>

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<p>Baystate, thanks for your input; it truly was not my intention to. And rereading through the original post and all that follow, I still am not sensing it. </p>

<p>What I do sense is that we are all attached to our schools of choice, and that they each have much to recommend them. But I have watched, listened to and heard recordings of the orchestras of EVERY school we considered (when they had orchestras). And I can tell you that hearing a “fantastic” school orchestra or knowing it travels are not, in the musical world (and especially the strings world), all that unusual. Really. And the East Coast orchestras are not the only fabulous regional orchestras, or even the most fabulous, in our rather vast country. </p>

<p>One of the things I tried to make clear in my original post was that the issue of “fit” is highly personal, and that we, as a family, had very specific “wants” — both academic and artistic. As do many, but not all, families who apply. </p>

<p>For some families of more “well rounded” kids (and I do not consider our dc necessarily well-rounded; rather heavily skewed on a couple of fronts), the issue of “fit” may really boil down to a particular set of favorite EC’s or the opportunity to learn a new sport… or it may simply be matter of community “feel” – those sometimes inchoate emotions that are called up when a student or family visits a particular institution, whether once or numerous times.</p>

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<p><<the key="" is="" for="" your="" child="" to="" have="" a="" good="" understanding="" of="" what="" important="" -="" them.="" (and="" i="" must="" admit="" pushed="" long="" time="" that="" any="" school="" we="" considered="" had="" great="" orchestra.="" thought="" was="" an="" “absolute=”" requirement"="" “good=”" fit"="" turned="" out="" be="" incorrect.)="">></the></p>

<p>@Mountainhiker, you nailed it… For OUR dd, music IS THE DRIVING PASSION—but she is also a serious student and young for a freshman. Her main goal is to “keep the doors open” to what she may want to do down the line. If that turns out to be solely music, something like law or political science (both interests), or some combination of the two—or something altogether different, we consider it our job as parents to support her and to provide “wise counsel” where we can. Our student’s relative youth was also a factor in school choices. So many factors combine to create “fit” that each of us must really find the right way for each of our children.</p>

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<p>As a parent in a similar camp as girlgeekmom, I didn’t see anything she posted in her OP as a “dis”.</p>

<p>I totally support her assertion that:
“Since SO MANY of the posters on the CC boards are DESPERATE to get into ACRONYM schools, they might take a long hard look at WHY they feel they MUST go to one of these schools when they really don’t know a lot about a) the schools and – especially in the case of student posters – b) themselves.” </p>

<p>I will also repeat a point I made earlier in the thread:
“I don’t think the ACRONYM schools don’t really need any extra press. They already get the most apps as it is. Me telling the story of how my daughter chose St. Andrew’s over St. Paul’s isn’t going to put anyone off applying to St. Paul’s. Nor is the OP’s story going to dissuade anyone from applying to Exeter. However, if either results in just one family considering a non-ACRONYM school, getting admitted (with however much aid they need) and having a great experience…well, that’s not a bad outcome, is it?”</p>

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<p>One question- what was it about the block schedule at NMH that you didn’t like?</p>

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<p>Good thread. Put me down as a big believer in ‘fit’ as well. We have a current student at Blair, and the fit made it an excellent choice. DC is thriving and truly would not want to be anywhere else. Great academics, great ECs, great friends = happy kid. I know as a parent that Blair is preparing DC for a great future, but in the meantime, DC is leading a happy and balanced life - working hard, and happy as a clam while doing it. DC says the school stood out because the kids all seemed to be happy to be there and part of a tight-knit (but not snobby or closed) community. Blair currently has a 30% acceptance rate, but seems to be getting more selective with each passing year. It is clearly a school on the rise.</p>

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<p>Welcome 24daffs… We really liked Blair during our visit day and it was a hard decision, in the end, to turn them down. So glad to hear your dc is having a good experience there.</p>

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<p>@willem, sorry, I missed your question. Our dd is very interested in foreign languages, and at the time she was applying, wanted to study two at the same time. Although the block system has a lot of real pluses, including the ability to really delve into a classroom discussion or lab, the fact that you only take 3 courses a term means that you will likely have to take foreign language classes every other term. It’s not, imo as a former student of languages, the best way to learn and retain foreign languages.</p>

<p>For some students, the block system is ideal - more in-depth classes and fewer subjects to do homework for (though I gather the homework for each class might be longer).</p>

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<p>Thank you, girlgeekmom! It’s terrific that your DC found a great school as well. </p>

<p>It often seems to be a matter of the student knowing themselves, being open-minded enough to consider a variety of schools, drawing up a thoughtful list, and applying wisely. Then on March 10, they have maximized their chances for happy news and great choices. It pained our family, too, not to be able to accept some offers, but that just means both sides saw the ‘fit’, and the list was as spot-on as these things can be.</p>

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<p>I don’t know how ‘fit’ works, really. How exactly do you decide whether a school is a good ‘fit’ for you or not based solely on one visit?</p>

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<p>@girlgeekmom,</p>

<p>I have a friend entering the process whose daughter is an exact clone of yours. Your story is such a close match I almost thought it could be her. I’m sending her a link to this thread. I think she’ll find it fascinating as they start the process. <3</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>I think it takes a lot of introspection and research. Instead of starting with the schools, I think it makes the most sense to start with your child’s needs/wishes, and your family’s values. Some questions to discuss with your child might include:</p>

<ul>
<li>Does your child need rigorous academics to keep them challenged? How are his grades and test scores?</li>
<li>Is there a specific academic area that your child is strong or weak in? Do you want to go “broad” or “deep” in your child’s areas of strength?</li>
<li>What sports is your child currently playing, or interested in taking up? Does your child want to pursue “alternative” forms of physical activity (dance, equestrian, hiking, climbing, fitness classes, etc)</li>
<li>What activities/clubs is your child currently participating in, or is interested in pursuing in high school?</li>
<li>Does your child have an aptitude or interest in performing arts?<br></li>
<li>Is there a specific language your child would like to study?</li>
<li>Does your child thrive under intense competition (a “racehorse”) or does he perform better in a more balanced environment</li>
</ul>

<p>Then, ask yourself some questions about your family’s values and situation:

  • How important is diversity - ethnic, religious, socio-economic, geographic region, international?
  • What geographic limitations do you have (day school, less than a 2 hour drive, within the region, across the country/world)
  • Is boarding school an “end in itself” (primarily pursuing boarding school because of the intrinsic value of that type of education), or is it a “stepping stone” (means to the end of possible admission to selective colleges)
  • what type of culture would be the most comfortable fit for your child (focus on academic accomplishment, focus on sports accomplishment, focus on arts accomplishment, a culture with a balance)
  • How much can you afford to spend toward your child’s education?</p>

<p>These are just some sample questions - I think you get the idea of where I’m going with this. There are many more factors you could include: single-sex versus co-ed school; school size: small (less than 250) - medium (250-700), large (700 and up); rural or urban setting; etc.</p>

<p>Once you have an idea of the needs of your child and your family, then you can start to research schools, and see which ones meet your requirements.</p>

<p>Many, many hours of looking at school websites (and reading forums like this one) can help you come up with schools to visit that (on paper, at least!) seem to provide a good fit. The visit sometimes confirms the fit, but often times, your child just doesn’t “feel” right at that school. </p>

<p>Yes - it’s a lot of work. But I believe it pays off with a list of schools to consider that has been shaped by “real” criteria, instead of just relying on common perceptions of “prestige” or “name-recognition.”</p>

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<p>Thoughtful and helpful post for those just starting on this road, mountainhiker. It jibes with our experience. Yes, as you say, it is a lot of work. But there really is no substitute. Knowing that each of our children ended up spending their high school years at the best place for them, well, it really does make all that work worth it. And of course, as you alluded, listening to what the child has to say in all of this. Sometimes their ‘eh, it was ok I guess’ can seem impossibly vague to a parent, but they usually have their reasons.</p>

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<p>@Exie… so glad my story could help. I found so much good info on these boards during our search, but for reasons of privacy during the app. process decided to lurk until this year. Now, of course, I’m letting it all hang out!</p>

<p>Your friend is welcome to PM me if she is on the boards.</p>

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<p>Mountainhiker, what a great list! It encapsulates all the basics in an easy-to-read form… you should start a thread with this, as a checklist for getting started thinking about boarding school (it should be a sticky, as far as I’m concerned). Thank you.</p>

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<p>Another vote for fit over ACRONYM here. </p>

<p>The check list from mountain hiker is pretty darned good! I particularly liked the questions about what atmosphere your child functions well in - which may boil down to “is this school more or less competitive”, and is the competition a group thing or an individual thing. </p>

<p>There are many things you want your child to accomplish. They don’t all have to be done in high school. If you have to compromise on something, best to compromise on a bell or whistle, rather than the underlying fit - just make sure that they get the most important thing, whatever that might be, when they need it.</p>

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<p>I just wanted to reiterate fit isn’t something you can get just by reading a schools brochure or reading its website or even coming here to CC. Our child is also a Freshman boarder this year. We too did the North East corridor last year. We visited both PEA and PA twice and after the second visit we came away saying not for us, or rather our child said it. Slowly but surely that list of 12 schools narrowed to 3. When results were out those two schools stayed in the mix, a third school stayed in the mix but with no aid at all. It was the least preferable school, so it fell off the list. </p>

<p>In essence I don’t know how a student or their family can assess fit if they don’t or can’t visit. In some schools it was an intangible, where we all came away saying “NO” but with no perceptible reason as to why. A perfectly amazing school, it just wasn’t for us.</p>

<p>In the end because we too cast a wider net, and found the dream school. I think far too many of us (students and parents) go into this process with tunnel vision for just the HADES, after our experience, that was simply the wrong approach. We wound up exactly where we were meant to be.</p>

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<p>Mountainhiker’s post cannot get bumped enough, and probably should be a separate thread to attract the attention of those just beginning this process. The suggestion to start with the personal inventory is critically important. </p>

<p>The time-consuming research part does build off of the school’s web site. I think that the links to YouTube, livestreaming networks, Flickr, etc., are important ways to get the sense of a school’s culture before and/or after the mandatory visit to schools that are going to make the short list. Where these are available, they give a view not so polished and scripted as the professionally produced admission videos. They allow you to make some (cautious) inferences.</p>