<p>sarahsmom, Good post. LOL last line!</p>
<p>I have to agree with sarahsmom. When people ask me what schools my D is applying to and I give them the list they are shocked. I then explain the process and the selective nature of the BFA programs and they understand. Most of them even say I hope you are helping her. I am proud to be helping with the process. She has to fill out the apps and write the essays but I am helping with the rest. I just hope she can continue to keep up with the heavy load she has right now.</p>
<p>Stay in touch, snomom. You will find much support and empathy here and you will need it! No matter how you slice it, the entire process will definately add a level of anxiety to you household! All of the stress can take a toll on your familie’s health. Try to make nutrition a priority in your family this year and if you can, take a brisk walk every day. You’d be surprised how much a brisk walk can do after a stressful flight, picking up the rental car, getting your bearing in a strange city and finding the hotel/campus! We almost always headed for a walk or the work out room. I think that it saved us from many fights! I also scheduled a massage for both of us whenever possible. Sometimes it was nice to do it the night before, sometimes after the audition. It’s expensive, but in my opinion, it was really worth every penny!</p>
<p>Sarahsmom,</p>
<p>You hit the nail on the head. This process for MT is SOOOOO much different that what other parents may or may not be involved in. There are 4 of us in my small office who had members of the class of 2007. No one understood the number of schools my D was applying to or the work that went into getting things done and prepared. The other 3 folks were all amazed at the selectivity and the whole process itself. </p>
<p>So snomom, visit here often! We understand and can help or provide some experience. And we’re a freidnly bunch of folks here as well :)</p>
<p>MikksMom</p>
<p>Since I started this thread, I wanted to pop back in and thank everyone for sharing their point of view. I guess the ultimate message lays in between the lines is, do as much or as little as your child needs you to do. For some of us this means managing the process, for others simply cheering them on from the side lines, and, there will also be many examples where the process is a combination of these two. Let’s enjoy “the ride” regardless of which path you are on. Good luck and blessings to all!</p>
<p>My daughter, now a first-year at NYU Tisch CAP 21, was always a hyper-organized, well-prepared, overachieving student. But when it came to college admissions, she really needed a tremendous amount of help and support, precisely because, as Sarahsmom said, she was balancing such a huge load between voice lessons, dance classes, rehearsals, audition prep, three AP courses and the social life of a normal teenager. So along with many other parents, I played the role of secretary and travel agent, but she did all the substantive/thinking work, filling in parts of the application that required thought, putting together her resumes and essays, deciding where to apply, whether to go ED, researching audition material, etc. That was enough. I take no credit for her success; I saw myself as her support staff, and I was happy to play that role. But all parents and children must make this decision based upon what works in their relationships, and there never is a right or wrong – just what works and what doesn’t.</p>
<p>That’s my two cents.</p>
<p>justamom, since you asked, (Post #18) I think maybe you’re jumping in at step 2 rather than step 1 with your S, so he doesn’t feel invested in things enough from the beginning. For example, you said, “I provided him with a list (of what you’d do and what he’d do)..” and "I bought him a planner (and told him to enter the dates into it, which he didn’t do). </p>
<p>You are providing the right tools, but the tone sounds a bit prescriptive, not collaborative, between you and S. I think I’d start one step before that, which would be to sit down with him and say, “how are we going to figure out who does what?” and together decide the answer is a list of divided chores (or some solution mutual between you). THEN you can whip out the list of divided chores the following day, or better yet: compose the list right there together with a big line down the middle.</p>
<p>Before presenting him with the planner, I’d be saying, “SO much to do. It’s a bear. What do you think will help you know what to do so you don’t forget?” and he might answer, Planner, or PDA, or big colorful calendar with a dog picture pasted over his bed…and THEN buy that.</p>
<p>in other words, get him invested in identifying the problem with you, and brainstorming the solution, so he’ll have bought in to it more. THen he might take ownership.</p>
<p>No need to go backwards, I’m just suggesting (since you asked) why the list and planner may have fallen flat.</p>
<p>For the next steps, I’d be sitting down with him. “Okay, so now here’s this empty planner. How can we make it work for you?” Then keep at it until he comes up with, “I’ll enter in the date deadlines.” </p>
<p>I found it was extremely hard at the beginning of the process, but did get better. The word I use in my mind is “scaffolding.” Provide the support he needs and teach him skills, but back off as soon as you see him beginning to use the skills.</p>
<p>And, to be honest, there were still many times when I thought I was tagging after him too much in the application process. I didn’t let him sabotage his entire process while learning how to organize himself, and I backed him up. I kept my own deadline list quietly, too, because he was such a challenge learning how to organize his stuff. Eventually he got it, and by the time he went in as a freshman a few weeks ago, he was great. But not in the fall of senior year. It’s a big, yearlong learning process for some kids (yours and mine sound like this; not everyone’s). So, hang in there with him. It’s like herding sheep.</p>
<p>Great post, paying 3. You sound like a good communicator!</p>
<p>Obviously, I am not a good communicator! </p>
<p>We DID discuss all of this beginning several months ago. HE decided he wanted a planner, picked it out, etc.–I just paid for it. We have had numerous discussions regarding the process, prior to the posting of “the list”. The main reason for posting the list was to make sure his expectations of us were realistic (how many colleges we could afford to visit, whether I would do the actual calling to set up auditions, etc.) during the process. </p>
<p>The main problem now seems to be the distractions he has…most significantly his girlfriend who is two years younger and not facing any immediate decisions regarding her future. </p>
<p>I have to admit, my viewpoint on the students taking ownership of the process is a little tainted. I work at a university, and every year I see MANY students coming from the bookstore with their parents. Junior’s hands are empty and the parents’ wallets are empty but their hands are full…of books. It sends a clear message to me that I do not want to go down that path.</p>
<p>Hang in there justamom. You are a good communicator and most likely better than me! It was not all smooth sailing for us either. We came to blows more than once along the way. I’m sure that many here would agree that until those apps. are in, you are in a tough spot. Our D CAME TO US with the burning desire and absolute resolve that she wanted to pursue MT. The problem was that at 16/17 she had no idea what kind of work it would involve just to get to college! She’d be training for years, but none of the training prepared her for this crazy app./audition process! None of her friends were having to do all of this stuff, none of her friends needed their parents help, none of her friends were scrambling to get it done by a fall deadline. She was caught in a triple bind and until we convinced her that her situation was not at all like her friends and that it was ok to let up help a little, she was positively paralyzed by her emotions.
Keep writing.. It helps.</p>
<p>My daughter had a similar dilemma with a boyfriend, same age but 1 grade behind. He was just in a different frame of exisitance than she - she looking forward to the whole "brave new world’ of college and MT and he still in a high school mindset. It’s not easy on the relationship and in their case, it ended because he couldn’t handle her mindset. We spent a lot of time (my wife more than I, this is “no man’s land” for a father of a daughter:) ) talking about goals and priorities and, fortunately, our daughter came to the realization that she couldn’t allow the relationship to interfere with her college plans. Because he couldn’t adapt, the relationship ended (which was a good thing for her growth process). It’s often a very frustrating situation for a parent to watch. Just try to keep the channels of communication open in a non-judgemental manner that isn’t perceived as attacking the relationship with the result that you inadvertantly push your son in the opposite direction (as you silently beat your head against the wall).</p>
<p>As to students taking ownership of the process, that’s very important and necessary for reasons ranging from assuming a more adult role in one’s life to making sure the student really understands just what they are getting themselves into. While, as you say, you may have a skewed perspective on this, bear in mind, as others have eloquently described above, that this process is unlike anything you’ve ever observed with other students who are not involved with seeking a BFA in performing arts. It was a learning process for me to balance my expectations of my daughter’s independence and responsibility with the reality of the demands of this proce</p>
<p>Nodding head vigorously in agreement that the creative arts applicants (my youngest) have one-third more work to do on every application than the usual BA applicants (my two eldest). The portfolios, auditions and so on are on top of all the rest that their friends are juggling. The destination schools are more competitive. How to compare a film school with 8% admit rate to a top LAC with the most restricted 17% admit rate? The motel stay before an audition requires much more planning than the motel stay before an academic interview. There is simply more to do when applying to a BFA or conservatory program. And how many of the BFA programs say, never mind about grades, SAT’s, EC’s. Oh no, they want to know all of that, too. THen, each school has its own resume format, so one theeatrical resume doesn’t segue into another. And that’s on top of the academic list of EC’s as seen on the Common Ap. Far from scaring anyone off, I’m applauding everyone who does it, and saying there is one-third more organization to be accomplished.</p>
<p>We also had the girlfriend, just one year younger, but her responsibilities were different in her Junior year than his Senior year. Her family began to catch on when she had to begin to study towards her SAT’s in May of her junior year. As the year wore on, S and his g.f. began to encourage each other productively to study or focus on what they needed to do. Finally, the girl helped him pack for college, which was really astonishing. In her case and his, there seemed much more good in the relationship. Everything’s not all about college, and learning to have a first girlfriend is kind of important, too.</p>
<p>I was a mess this time last year, and the CC got me through.</p>
<p>^^^Agree with ya paying3tuitions! There is an entire extra layer than for regular college applicants and it is also more competitive in terms of acceptance rates (let alone involves an in person talent assessment, not just paper one) than regular degree programs. </p>
<p>Now I have a daughter applying to professional graduate schools for architecture and it is sorta the same thing on top of what she has to do to apply, there are the portfolio pieces and creating an effective presentation of them upon which a lot of the decision lies on top of academics, essays, recs, and GREs, and the acceptance rates are very low. Here we go again!</p>
<p>Gee soozie…again! I hope your darlings appreciate you! </p>
<p>Next thing we know you’ll be the words of wisdom over on the architecture board as well as MT!!</p>
<p>Just wanted you to know how much we appreicate you each and every day!</p>
<p>MikksMom :)</p>
<p>Soozievt, please congratulate D and tell her I want to live in any building she designs!</p>
<p>I know far less about architecture so give me a few years, LOL. Also, she is at college and of course does things on her own but she was home for five days and we did map out a big time line of things that needed to get done. I have no idea how she will fit all of this in while going to college, being a freshman advisor, a tour guide, being on a varsity sport team (huge commitment), doing an optional Honors Thesis by selection, and now I just found out she was chosen to be a TA of a popular architecture class at her college even though she is an undergraduate and so that is like an extra class. It is good to be young. She has to study for GREs too, oy. My in laws also say she could design them a house one day. Right now, it is mostly the little models she makes, lol. </p>
<p>Mikksmom…I do read the arch forum to learn more, just like way back when D2 was a freshman in HS and we were not nearly looking into colleges for MT yet (I read CC as my older D was starting her college process at the time) but I kept reading the then very long (in parts) MT colleges threads (there was no subforum then). I’ve come a long way since then, LOL. Anyone who has been through it has! I’ve even been trained in the college admissions process, so I’m still at it. Now I go through it every year with all the kids I am advising and I get just as excited in spring as if they were my own children. This time I do have a child going through an admissions process (again). It kinda never ends, though I think the BFA is it for my D2 (but then there are jobs/auditions…it keeps going…).</p>
<p>And Mikksmom…I think all of our kids appreciate us whether they show it or not. I recall a card my older D made expressing her appreciation for the help with her college process at the time and that she felt she could not have done it without me. My other D called at the end of her first day of classes two days ago and thanked me for paying for her to go to college because she loves it so much (and she knows the financial drain it takes). So, kids do appreciate the support that ALL the CC parents obviously are giving to their kids (they would not even be on CC if they were not interested and involved).</p>
<p>I’ve been thinking about grad school, hopefully, by then he’ll have it all together and with his profs advice do ok. There will be alot of travel at that time so I’ll have to pay for it, but hopefully he can book it himself.</p>
<p>srw…it is definitely different when they are older. My D has traveled extensively during her college years both in the US and overseas and maps out her own planes and trains and books them. She has traveled a great deal by herself. She is independent. I’m still here though for support and she runs things by me and we discuss these sorts of things but she takes care of it all.</p>
<p>I’m new to CC, a parent of a senior who wants to be an actor, and trying to get up to speed fast. The high school teachers and counselors are little help, so our family has become educated on the 'net, thru college visits, and thru summer programs. I’m intrigued by something I read on this thread. . .about advice that would lead to a student getting into an acting program somewhere, somehow! My s only wants an acting BFA (not MT) and is not interested in considering a BA program w/ a major in acting/theater/or something related. He has identified about 8 schools, most of which he has visited, and he is in the process of applying to them now. They are all top-notch schools (CMU, BU, Juilliard, Minnesota, etc.). He’s good, but so are sooo many others! What do you recommend as a “safety” for someone with acting interest and experience, B plus average at a competitive hs with rigorous curriculum, but low standardized test scores? I don’t want to see him this time next year at a community college because our strategy was “off”! Thanks!</p>
<p>Off the top of my head I can’t think if any non-auditioned BFA Acting programs… they probably exist, I just can’t think of any. Briansteffey may be of help on this one. Soozie?</p>
<p>I think you are wise to think about some “safeties”. The top notch schools are so hard to get into. They see far more talented people audition than they can accept… depending on the school they will calculate his grades and test into the admissions decision in varying degrees. </p>
<p>You could consider some two year conservatories if he is completely against the BA option. The NY Film Academy does not require an audition (at least I do not think they do – they also have connections with some colleges to transfer credits and obtain a bachelor’s degree). </p>
<p>If you think it would be wise for him to identify an academic safety BA school (if there are no BFAs) that does not require an audition, maybe talk with him about why is is completely against the BA route and try to convince him that he may want to think about it more carefully. </p>
<p>Good Luck!</p>