<p>I know many of you have heard of how horrible my son's school has been. But he has a few months left, and he's outta there. Every time he comes home for a visit, it is a battle with him negotiating not to go back. my 19 year old son ends up crying, I end up screaming and my husband tells him to get out and go to school. it's awful. I can't blame him, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. If he quits now, he will be majorly in debt by defaulting. it's ridiculous. I have resorted to telling him not to come home until he graduates. I know there must be others with stories like this. I love my son dearly, and I know he's frustrated, but he's being such an @$$. next year, another one going. I can't wait.</p>
<p>I am a student not a parent but whence I come negotiation is a 2 party arrangement. I hear you saying that you cannot take a stand thus your solution is to have you son restricted from your presence? I don't get that.</p>
<p>Can your son defer the last semester and use the time to regroup and recharge his batteries? Maybe work in a restaurant or hotel for a while?</p>
<p>Wow, is he going to transfer next year? I read how terrible his roommate is and how you were getting no satisfaction from the school. Did they ever address the problem? I think a person could probably stick it out for a couple of months, but maybe not. If my son said he had to leave, I'd probably believe him. But you can be sure I'd try to get a tuition refund for the semester if the school forced him to leave by not providing a safe and substance-free place to live.</p>
<p>lkf, we know someone who did that and was successful. Their son was in a school that tripled a double room. He was a freshman, and frankly not a student. He was not doing well. The parents asked for a refund for the semester b/c their son did not have a proper place to live (in their opinion) and they told me that they got a refund. They put him in a cc after that, and he moved back home.</p>
<p>it sounds like your son is doing this because he's frustrated, as you acknowledged, and probably dreading going back to school. i was like that a lot in high school (granted, the stakes arent as high then) because i was severely depressed, and my parents reacted similarly to you.. they yelled, forced me to go to school, told me nothing was wrong. i know you know everything that's wrong at his school and to you it just seems like 5 more months, but to him those 5 months will feel endless and maybe he thinks there's no end in sight, or he's nervous about what to do after may. since it seems he's back at school now, i would suggest sending him some care packages so he will at least have something to brighten up his days, and to know that you're not angry at him but at the situation.</p>
<p>I would be afraid that pushing a child into an unbearable no-win situation might have dangerous effects. Sometimes you hear of students finding their own solutions by either lashing out at their tormentors (like the meek kid who can't take it anymore and shoots the bully at school) or by ending their own misery (via drugs, suicide, etc). IMO, you should keep close contact with you son and monitor how he is coping. He needs to know you are in his corner.</p>
<p>amith1--I sympathize. What a mess. And, I too share ikf725's fears in a situation like this. It would be good to sit down with your son with a third party (a therapist? or counselor?) and go over his options. For instance, If he didn't go back, could he come up with a plan to pay his debts? And does that really seem better than sticking it out to him? If he does go back, what can he do to make the situation more tolerable? Perhaps your S could have someone (a therapist?) to call when things seem really bad at school to help him get through this. It sounds like he needs a support system at least. </p>
<p>And how is he doing mentally? Perhaps getting a psychologist involved who could convince the school that this kid needs to take a leave for a semester wouldn't be a bad idea. Xiggi's suggestion, above, that some sort of hiatus might help (might even be necessary to his mental health) seems like a good idea to think about.</p>
<p>Just throwing out ideas. I wish you the best with this!</p>
<p>Amith1, we went through something similar with our S last year when he was a junior in high school. We contacted a MFCC (Marriage, Family & Child counselor) who had retired from my S's high school after 20+ years as their high school counselor. So, this guy knew the ropes when it came to teenagers and family relations. </p>
<p>He advised us to work with our son and to support what he wanted to do, while at the same time protecting our own boundaries. Before we met with the counselor, it was out-of-the-question in our minds that we would help our S quit high school. But, he encouraged us to talk with our S and really flesh out the details of what he would do after he left high school. IOW, help him plan what he would do afterwards as far as working p/t and starting college. He was still a minor at the time, so he would still be living at home. </p>
<p>We met with his academic counselor at school who helped him think through his choices. He could continue his senior year with a half-day schedule which would release him by Noon, then work p/t. He could finish his Senior year with a lighter schedule, get out before lunch every day, and graduate with his class. His counselor advised him to take summer classes at the community college and work p/t as a dry run for working and attending the CC in the Fall, if he chose not to go back at the end of the summer. They discussed his GPA and what his choices would be for getting into different colleges with a GED vs. applying as a h/s grad with an improved GPA after another year.</p>
<p>Ultimately, it was my S's choice to finish high school and complete his Senior year. He's still somewhat annoyed with the h/s scene, but it was his choice to go back and not ours. He did a lot of other uncharacteristically stupid things last year in terms of his behavior, so whatever it was that he was going through personally was affecting his judgment, in general. It turned out that he was maturing into an adult, and that's where the conflict was. We still saw him as a kid who needed limits. We weren't seeing him as an adult who had a right to make up his own mind. That's tough to do when they're still acting like...well, kids. :) </p>
<p>Looking back on it, he needed our support to get through a rough period in his life. We had to go against our parental reaction to rein him in and impose our authority. He really didn't need us to tell him that what he was doing was wrong. He needed us to provide stability and help him make the right decision for himself. He needed advice from somebody who was in the position to give him the information he needed in order to make up his own mind, i.e. his academic counselor. We had to drag ourselves away from our own fears and frustrations and provide him with assistance. Looking at him today, you wouldn't know that he is the same confused kid he was a year ago.</p>
<p>Good luck with your S. ;) It really is hard, but there is something in it that has to do with letting go of old-style parenting that will get you through. :::slugghuggs to you::::</p>
<p>My son has 4 months and he can graduate with an associates degree in culinary arts and never have to worry about that place again. he continues to get good grades, and will graduate with little debt if he graduates. that's how j and w works it, the amount of money he pays back on the one major loan is contingent on his gpa, and graduating. we have made it as comfortable as possible for him by renting him a house with some roommates, the one of which he likes a lot and does a lot of things with. we got him a nice car so he is mobile, and he has a reasonable amount of money he can spend monthly. for a year and a half I have been supportive, tender, understanding. yes, it's a bad situation. but the way j and w does it you cannot take off, or just leave without suffering major financial consequences, and my son is doing well academically. I think he has grown as a person because of the need to take care of himself away from home,and deal with some things. At this point, with 4 months left, I feel he is just being a jerk. he knows he has to go back, he knows he has to finish, he is just intent on tormenting me until the very end. my son essentially wants to sit at home in his room, play video games and act like a big baby, and I have had it. so this time I freaked on him. hey, I don't like getting up every morning and going to work at a place where my boss does not support us and I am tortured daily by physicians, patients, families and whoever else feels I am their scapegoat, but I have to so my son and daughter can go to college. so I don't think it is unreasonable to expect he buck up and just do what he has to do for the next 4 months. whether he wants to admit it or not he has learned things and will be able to get a good job with his degree. he cannot transfer because j and w classes don't transfer. I have asked j and w teachers and counselors to talk to him to help him understand what his degree will get him, and what leaving would cost him, but they refuse because he's an adult and he has to come to them; I wouldn't want any of them going out of their way to help a lost kid who in one way or another had paid them 30,000 yearly to be lost in the shuffle and completely not supported. I don't see my son acting out at all, and I do try and keep close contact although his cell phone doesn't work very well in providence. he will be fine if he would just stop fighting everything. hazmat, in response, he tries to negotiate. I don't negotiate with terrorists. thanks all for listening. I just can't wait until may.</p>
<p>I don't understand how staying or going, graduating or not graduating, has any bearing on paying back your loan. Are you saying that you will owe less money if your son graduates?</p>
<p>I guess I don't understand why you would end up at a school that costs $30,000 a year and their classes don't even transfer
sounds like he had bad advice :(</p>
<p>Having just spent 3 hours a few weeks ago- fearing that my 15 year old was suicidal and having no idea where she was- I lean towards supporting your child, not making him go someplace that makes him crazy.</p>
<p>IMHO:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>An adult has to do what an adult has to do; 19 is not an adult in the purest sense of duty.</p></li>
<li><p>The "school" your student attends is playing the "adults" must come to them for support as a means of ousting parents and their prying eyes, so as to avoid the kind of scrutiny that would out their dirty little secrets, no doubt...and we all know that 19 year olds can be kicked around a lot easier than 42 year olds or 57 year olds.</p></li>
<li><p>Yes, while I would want my child to improve coping skills and independent living skills, I would in no way want it to jeopardize mental health and create a dangerous situation that could lead to desperate life-threatening actions. If my 18 year old felt that I wasn't there for him and that he was surrounded by people who were deceitful and not out for his wellbeing...and even the most mature 18 (or 19 year old...or even a more advanced adult) is ready to handle that kind of situation...I don't think there would be any good choices left for him to make to end the situation. That's what I'd fear...and you should too.</p></li>
<li><p>Your son needs someone in his corner. If you and your husband have decided that he must absolutely spend the next four months at that "school", I would encourage you to spend the extra bucks to find him a life coach of some type to help him maintain his sanity. This person would be a counselor, cheerleader, planner, etc. Someone to get him from point A to point B.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Again, IMHO, $30,000 pales in comparison to a child who commits suicide because there are no options. My college roommate tried to kill herself decades ago. I'll never forget it. She apparently was crying out for help, but no one listened or cared.</p>
<p>I'll never let my son feel abandoned...his concerns are mine. If he's not ready to go, he'll stay. If he's tender, we'll toughen him up, but gradually. If he can't swim with the big boys, we won't throw him in over his head and drown him. Some kids just can't make it like that. It doesn't mean that they're lesser forms of life. It's just that they're wired differently. I seem to recall that somewhere in one of your earlier posts (and pls forgive me if I'm wrong) that there may have been some family difficulties. Children from a background such as that (and I know whence I speak) have much greater trouble with change and cling much tighter to home and the security and stability it offers (even if problems did or do occur there)...they abhor a tumultuous environment. This may be playing a role here. And it may be that such an environment may never be comfortable for your dear son. Please consider if any of this is true. If it is, it may put some of what you're seeing in your son's behavior into a whole new perspective.</p>
<p>I hope everything works out well for you and your family. Please love your son and draw him close; please resist the temptation to push him away simply because at 19 he is by definition a man.</p>
<p>
[quote]
my 19 year old son ends up crying, I end up screaming and my husband tells him to get out and go to school. it's awful.
[/quote]
Please take Sluggbugg's advice and get counseling.. If your son is currently unavailable (at school), then you and your husband should go the counselor on your own. </p>
<p>There are two issues here: one is about facts & circumstances [your son's school problems, what can be done about it, the financial implications] ...the other is about communications and relationships. No matter how "right" you may be in terms of your position re school, you and your husband currently seem to be doing very poorly in term of how you communicate and the relationship you have with your son. Crying, screaming, shouting is not productive. This is where a counselor can really help -- and this is why you should go even if your son can't go with you. The counselor can help you learn more effective ways to communicate with your son. </p>
<p>I'm a single parent and when my son was 13 we almost came to blows -- so I made an appointment with a therapist who was very, very good. He was definitely worth the $100/hour he charged -- even though at the time I was struggling financially and coming up with that money was not easy. But with very short-term counseling, our problems were solved - I don't think my son and I have ever had a serious argument or conflict since that time. </p>
<p>The therapist talked to us seperately and also met with us together. When I was alone with him, he told me that I was the grownup in the relationship and I had a responsibility to let my son know that he was loved, and to refrain from fighting on my son's level. So basically he told me to cut out the screaming & yelling part.... and he also helped me to see things from my son's point of view. I didn't expect to be told that I was wrong or had to change my ways going in -- I saw the problem as "there must be something terribly wrong with my son" because his behavior made no sense to me -- but that was the value of the counseling: it helped me see how my words and anger were fueling the negative response that I was getting. </p>
<p>From what you say, you have logic and rationality on your side, but there are emotions involved here and my guess is that your son does not feel that he is getting validation and support from you. You've given him practical support: a rental, a car, etc. .... but maybe when he starts to "negotiate" with you, what he really wants to hear is that you understand how much school sucks for him and how totally miserable he is. Maybe he needs to vent before he can look at things rationally. I don't know; I'm not there. You won't ever know the source of your son's frustration if you are not able to listen to him in an open manner -- and I guess your financial worries and emotions are getting in the way of that. But the bottom line is your son is not an @$$ -- that's your anger clouding your view; he is your son, and you love him -- and you all need to find the way to communicate your love and respect for one another again.</p>
<p>Make sure your son is emotionally safe and not prone in any way to hurt himself. The truth is that credits from a high school can be transferred to any number of independent programs and one can finish up on their own and apply to college --and do quite well. The credits from that high school will always be considered credits from that high school, and people leave and finish independently for a host of credible reasons. Life should not be a box --imo it is a poor lesson for a kid. Clonlara and others of its ilk has had success in admissions with these kids, Ivy etc. Some young people may be emotionally fragile and vulnerable, and when that is the case I believe that is the most important consideration. School can always be made up. Other things cannot. If it were my son, I would listen more carefully to his inner needs and try to understand, in a deep way, what is wrong. Something is wrong and if you ignore it you might rue the day.</p>
<p>amith.I appreciate your insight into J&W. I plan to ask them the hard questions when my son goes out for their Leadership Conference over Presidents Weekend. Especially want to know "repayment" details and how my son could get thru their program in 3 yrs. MY son has toured a few other programs and has been offered $$$ elsewhere.</p>
<p>I will continue to keep your son and your family in my heart and prayers</p>
<p>He's done well academically and has the comforts of an apartment and car, what precisely is his rationale for not wanting to go back to school? It's hard to know what to say without hearing his side of things.</p>
<p>Is the son in high school or college? Because I was thinking high school, but cloverdale mentioned something about high school credits.</p>
<p>Is he tired of doing the work? I've felt that way for years so I end up putting stuff off until the last minute. I'm so sick of reading and writing. May cannot come soon enough for me either.</p>
<p>amith1's son is in college..at Johnson and Wales...the issue is THEIR Credits dont transfer easily</p>