<p>According to my attorneys, jail time for a first offence of DWI even with aggravated, the most aggravated situation with multiple other charges, actual jail time is unlikely to happen especially involving a minor, no injuries, damages publicity. A second offence around here, almost certainly some jail time from what I saw, unless the pled out or gone to court, where surprisingly in the times I watched, a lot of them won. As I said before, some of the multi time offenders knew the ropes well enough that nailing them was not easy to get those severe penalties that were in place. The thing is, there is discretion allowed for a judge to make a call in these sentences whereas in the OP’s son’s case there is not, and it looks like the DA is somewhat hamstrung too with this new law. </p>
<p>The reason being that the consequnces will be more consistent and fair. Probably so, over all, but the mandatory here is just to harsh, imo.</p>
<p>Jonri, I too would expunge at age 25, 28 or whatever, but though one might not be able to totally expunge a DWI, most of the time, you can pretty much clear it after the fact, is what I have been told. How it works in actuality, I don’t know. I am not as concerned about that, since something that happens as a minor or as a very young person, I don’t think would be that far reaching if the person kept his nose clean thereafter. I know a lot of my peers who have had some brushes with the law when they were young and stupid.</p>
<p>"also suspect that if he gets jail time, there will be a lot less drunk driving among the kids at his high school for at least 2-3 years. It will “send a message.”</p>
<p>How I wish. Not been the case in any of the school I’ve known. These kids are ever so foolish.</p>
<p>Then the laws in NY are too lenient, IMHO. I can understand why, given that the population center in the state is in an area where public transit is good, teenagers don’t tend to get licenses or start driving early, and so there probably isn’t much of an outcry for tougher laws. Even though the laws are passed in Albany, I’d guess that the votes coming from the NYC tend to have a greater influence on state policy. </p>
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<p>Maybe that’s because the stakes are so much higher because of the state law deeming the 2nd offense a felony. The felony conviction is much more serious long-term than the amount of jail time that accompanies it – that is, I’d rather see a client do 6 months on a misdemeanor than get probation and no jail on a felony. That time discrepancy is unlikely, but it’s fairly common for plea bargaining for defense lawyers to offer more time on on a lesser charge in exchanging for the prosecutor dropping more serious charges. </p>
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Why do you think that OP’s son is deserving of a lesser sentence? Because his dad has the money to hire a lawyer? </p>
<p>I can’t really get away from the fact that the kid took the car to the prom knowing that he planned to drink there. There are a lot of aggravating circumstances to pile on, even beyond the formal ones laid out in the statute.</p>
<p>“How I wish. Not been the case in any of the school I’ve known. These kids are ever so foolish.”</p>
<p>Actually, we’ve seen a drop of around 20-25% in teen DUIs with 1) stricter sentencing; 2) more vigorous enforcement; and, in areas that have them, 3) social hosting ordinances.</p>
<p>I helped write the guide below - just Google it.</p>
<p>To assist communities in learning more about social host ordinances, the Washington State Coalition to Reduce Underage Drinking has developed “Drafting A Social Host Ordinance: A How-to Guide for Washington Communities.”</p>
That’s the part that I really detested in my years as an attorney, and it’s a large part of why I became a lawyer in the first place. </p>
<p>There’s another saying: “What’s the definition of a liberal? A conservative who’s been arrested.” Harsh sentences get pushed through legislatures by people who have the attitude that the laws apply to others, not them. </p>
<p>I want my kids to live under and abide by the same laws and procedures as everyone else. I think they agree. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t want to see a close family member arrested or in jail for DUI. But I’d rather see that than see a family member lying dead by the side of the road as a consequence of a selfish, irresponsible and stupid decision. The rules of nature don’t make exceptions because of age or family finances. If instead of a call from the police station, the OP had gotten a call from the hospital where his son was in ICU, it wouldn’t matter that it was a “first offense”. </p>
<p>I think there’s a parental responsibility here as well. I’m not faulting the OP, who seems to be handling this in a mature and reasonable manner. I can see how he was blindsided, without previous evidence that his son was drinking </p>
<p>But I do think that if the laws are harsh in any state, the parents have an obligation to counsel their kids in advance. I don’t accept the idea that a first offender in a DUI doesn’t know what to expect, because at least in my state, that info is pretty well publicized. I don’t think that parents need to be lecturing their kids at every opportunity, but certainly it should be a topic of discussion before the kid gets a license, before the kid is allowed to drive the family car, and before the kid goes out with a car on any occasion where it is likely that there may be drinking (a party, New Years eve).</p>
<p>It seems that the kids are “ever so foolish” in the same state where “actual jail time” is “unlikely to happen” on a first DUI even with “the most aggravated situation with multiple other charges.”</p>
<p>The kids are responding to the messages they are being given, both at home and in their environment.</p>
<p>Tragic story just happened in SC. 18 year old senior set to graduate next week, driving DUI, was in a single car accident at 2 am, losing control and hitting a tree in someone’s yard after hitting a car parked on the side of the road in front of the house. The driver and another passenger in the front had only minor injuries, but his 16 year old brother in the backseat was killed. All 3 wearing seatbelts.
I can not begin to imagine the agony those parents are facing. The loss of one son forever and another probably lost to the justice system for awhile. Personally I would like to see his punishment more along the lines of spending the next several years visiting every high school in the state sharing his story with driver’s ed and health classes or even school assemblies. He is going to carry this burden of killing his brother forever. Thankfully the non-family passenger is okay and no others were involved–don’t know if that will make a difference with a judge.
A sad reminder that your life can change in an instant. Prayers for all of our young people to be smart and safe this holiday weekend.</p>
<p>jtennis, that kid’s life is ruined. What a mess. so sad.</p>
<p>Just a reminder to parents to have a “no questions asked” call me no matter what if you or the driver cannot drive and I will come and get you. Also, check in with a text message about an hour before your kid is driving home just to remind them of this. If they have had something to drink, that reminder will put that back in their head as an option. </p>
<p>We have social hosting laws in our area. They are very strict.</p>
<p>At first, people grumbled. But, the norm becomes the norm, and soon people were aghast that anyone would allow drinking at a party. It’s amazing how quickly people are relieved when it’s the law.</p>
<p>Of course, you are only allowed to go to our local prom if you go on the bus and spend the night at the hosted after party at the gym. You have to surrender all of your things to the parent chaperones when you arrive before getting on the bus. </p>
<p>It makes it easier for the kids to just leave the drinking out of it.</p>
<p>I haven’t heard of any infractions under these conditions in the five years this is the way it’s been done.</p>
<p>The strict law, and its enforcement, just made people feel good about what they knew to be the right thing to begin with. We have had hardly anyone charged under the ordinances yet, and there hasn’t so far been much of a need.</p>
<p>There’s not a lot of drinking and driving among the kids around here, or the parents. I think the social hosting laws help with this, too.</p>
<p>It’s just not considered “cool.” At least around here.</p>
<p>But, as you can see from Prom, the whole community is very committed to keeping the alcohol out of the picture, and the kids with the alcohol out of the cars. </p>
<p>My kid is no angel. I’ve had to pick her up a couple of times. But, the point is she called and her friends called their parents, too. No questions asked. You really HAVE to stick to that or it won’t work.</p>
<p>I did ask one question, “Does everyone have a ride home? Or can I drive someone?”</p>
<p>jtennis: I teared up just now reading that story from SC. On another night, that could have been my kid. We were always reluctant to let him drive his sister places, even just to soccer practice, because it was in the back of our minds that we were one turn of the wheel away from losing both of our children. (After this week, my wife and I want no part of our daughter driving when she turns 16 in a few months.)</p>
<p>calmom: You have sounded a lot like my son’s attorney since the beginning of this thread. We have the stated goal of taking this down to reckless driving and avoiding jail, but the more realistic goal of pleading to Level 2 or 3. The judge is considered tougher than the DA and by taking this to trial, which would keep the DUI off the college applications, we would risk a much longer sentence (max is 2 years, lawyer told us 1 year wouldn’t be unfathomable if we dragged it out and lost a trial). Between the fact that his school suspension guarantees that colleges will know about this, and the fact that there isn’t much reason to believe he’d be acquitted at trial, the plea option makes sense to all 4 of us.</p>
<p>Many of you have also wondered about the speeding. He was clocked at 34 in a 30 zone. I’m guessing the officer was profiling (two kids leaving a prom) and needed a stated reason to pull him over. He did his job and did it well.</p>
<p>Also, 5 of my son’s classmates were arrested at the end of the school day today based off the information he and his GF provided to the school. The school and the local police are taking this very seriously.</p>
I would note that your son may experience some significant punishment as a result of that as well. It was the right thing to do, but it will also have consequences.</p>
That’s a piece of good news. It means that the speeding isn’t going to be a factor in anyone’s mind against him. (It also means that your son might not really have been speeding, but if the cop was looking for an excuse to pull him over, he would have found one. Better that the report says the kid was driving 4 miles above the speed limit than a claim that he was weaving and swerving all over the road. </p>
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That is another reason that the DA may be willing to cut your son some slack. Not a reason that I am particularly fond of, but basically in the criminal justice system an arrestee earns some brownie points when he informs on others. I think the level 2 sentence is very likely and level 3 a possibility. (Again, I’m in another state and NC may be a different world, but in general I’m fairly good at predicting outcomes).</p>
<p>I don’t think the goal of delaying in order to keep things off the college apps makes much sense in any case. You never want to try to hide an important piece of information in that setting. You never know if the college might find out anyway. For example, there are now 5 classmates with a motive to get back on your son -it’s easy enough for one of them to send an email to the admissions department of your son’s top college choice – and if not one of them, it could be be volunteered in the counselor’s report. Also, you wouldn’t want to go through the college app process worried about whether they might find out - or worrying about an acceptance could be later rescinded. </p>
<p>We were advised to be up front with any significant weaknesses or problems – there’s always a place on the application form where you can provide an explanation (which in your son’s case would be some version of, “I’ve learned my lesson and this will never happen again.”) Your son showed some smarts with the SADD idea – I don’t know whether he’s genuine or he’s just savvy enough to know how to begin to repair the damage – but he’s on the right track there.</p>
<p>I’d like to think he’s genuine. He spent a lot of time the last couple days while suspended looking up other SADD chapters and coming up with a list of teen centers, drivers ed classes, and other places he could speak. He’s still talking about college a lot (I think mostly as a means of therapy), but I haven’t gotten a “how can I spin this” vibe from him at all.</p>
<p>I’m sure the other 5 students aren’t happy with my son and his girlfriend but the school already had the evidence against him–the supervisors from the prom knew that this group of 8 (all of whom have now been arrested, including the provider) spent the evening together and the principal already had the list of names before our family met with him on Tuesday. My wife and I told are son before the meeting that if he wanted to start to rebuild the lost trust, he was going to begin by being completely transparent with the principal.</p>
<p>My worry now is that the local media gets involved, since 8 teenagers being arrested is a fairly unusual occurrence in our community.</p>
<p>I just came across this competition, and thought maybe someone here has an idea worth submitting. There are $100,000 in cash prizes for the winners.</p>
<p>34 in a 30 is was just an excuse, and I bet he wasn’t even going 34.</p>
<p>And how can the prosecute the other students? Arrest? Hmmm, days later, no evidence except for a kid, a very he said she said. I don’t see any of the other kids who got arrested getting much punishment at all. Think about it, weren’t caught in the act, they can pretty much deny, and all the proof the cops have is a kid who needs a deal. This will help the OP son, but as for the cops, what evidence do they really have.</p>
<p>A defence lawyer will get those kids off very easily. If it was my kid who provided the alochol, I would deny deny deny. No proof, no case.</p>
<p>Legal system is very different from schoool and college system. I would make a bet none of the arrested kids gets much.</p>
<p>My daughter was sold pot brownies by a girl from her school. If she told the cops about the girl, all the girl would have to do is deny. Having my daughter say, she sold it to me would have been nothing, especially days and days after the event. Now the school dealing with it was very different from legal.</p>
<p>What were the kids arrested for? Supplying alcohol? Eh, they will walk, frankly, as they should.</p>