<p>You know…I made a post earlier about what is happening now…and I just want to say something. </p>
<p>I told you so.</p>
<p>
I know a woman (from my law school) that got a DUI. She went out drinking the previous evening, walked home, fell asleep, and then woke up at about 5 am. She went out in her car, was pulled over by the overzealous cops in town (she’s never gotten so much as a speeding ticket in her life), breathalysed, and arrested when she blew a 0.09. </p>
<p>She spent the night in jail, lost her license for a year, and has a permanent criminal record. Discuss.</p>
<p>Discuss what? That she got what she deserved?</p>
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<p>It takes that long to metabolize alcohol (I don’t drink so I don’t know)?</p>
<p>If the cop pulled her over, there was likely a reason for it, and that reason was probably erratic driving. </p>
<p>From what I remember from AlcoholEdu, the liver takes about one hour to metabolize one standard drink. That means she was extremely drunk when she walked home and woke up the next morning feeling sober, even though in actuality she was still quite intoxicated. Because drinking alcohol lowers the quality of sleep, which she didn’t get enough of as it were (I’m assuming she walked back at around 11PM-2AM), she was driving while drunk and exhausted. So yes, she was a danger to the community and the state had every right to take away her license.</p>
<p>I refrained from posting this until the OP knew the environment his S was in because I didn’t want to cause undue alarm but here’s an anecdote - </p>
<p>A friend of mine was on a business trip on the other side of the country and was caught DUI. The end result was that he needed to make a trip cross country (on his own dime of course) for the hearing and then had to actually fly cross country again for the purpose of reporting to jail for some period of time (similar to the OP’s S’s sentence). He said the jail was ‘awful’. It was way overcrowded to the point where there weren’t enough cells for all the people so bunks were strewn everywhere. He was in jail with all kinds of offenders - not just people with DUIs but almost any crime you can think of. Don’t forget that these county jails are where many are held before they’re sent to a prison somewhere. It was a terrible experience for him.</p>
<p>However, I saw a radical change in him regarding his habits. This friend liked to drink and he obviously engaged in risky and dangerous behavior in driving after drinking. After this experience he didn’t touch alcohol if he was going to drive. He didn’t try to have ‘just one drink’, which of course can easily lead to more drinks, but he had none at all. If he wasn’t on the hook to drive then he’d go ahead and drink the same as he used to. In other words, he switched from being an irresponsible drinker to a responsible one. </p>
<p>I think this jail sentence (and corresponding costs in $$$ and time) was entirely appropriate and may well have saved his life as well as the lives of others since it caused him to change his behavior in a very positive way. I doubt that would have happened with him if it had only been a fine, a slap on the wrist, or a bit of community service.</p>
<p>It sounds like the OP’s S is in a better facility than my friend was in but I’m sure it’s still not a pleasant place to be (and shouldn’t be) and his S has a lot of time to think about how he’d like to be in places other than there as well as to realize what a poor decision he made to drink and drive not just on the philosophical level (which I’m sure he would have had even as he was doing the act) but the very real practical level of “it hurts (being in jail and costing big bucks), don’t do it again”. To that end, like my friend, this may be one of the best things that happened to the S if it truly convinces him to never ever again drink and drive - not even a single drink (since once one has a single drink their inhibitions decrease which impact subsequent judgment calls).</p>
<p>Speaking of the $$$, I don’t know if it was mentioned earlier but I’d definitely make sure the S is on the hook for all of the costs related to this.</p>
<p>It seems we’re awfully quick to incarcerate people. What was really gained here by putting him in jail for 10 days?</p>
<p>The criminal justices systems supports a lot of jobs and a lot of pensions. I think that it seeks to sustain itself and maximize its income.</p>
<p>But, how do we get around the fact that it IS the law, as it stands? Not something created for this particular situation. Only thing would be to work for change-?</p>
<p>^^ riprorin - what was gained is pretty much what GladGradDad’s post is about. Also, that is the law in NC. </p>
<p>It’s a hard lesson, but maybe a necessary one. And as you can see from my previous posts, I am firmly on the side of feeling empathy for NCDad and his son, and I actually believe (based on what I gleaned from NCDad’s posts) that this boy was extremely remorseful and likely would have learned his lesson just as strongly from some serious, no-driving-and-drinking related community service hours, but that’s neither here not there - he actually ended up with a bit less punishment than he could have as far as jail time.</p>
<p>Also I agree GGDad that the son should be expected to pay back as much as possible of the financial costs of this whole mess to mom & dad (at some point down the line).</p>
<p>Son can’t drive. That means mom and dad are going to be shuttling kid to any job unless public transportation is available. Probably paying them back is a bigger pain than anything else. Also at the risk of starting WWIii , hadOP 's son refused the breathalyzer he would not be in jail now? Rt? Or is there mandatory jail if you refuse to blow?</p>
<p>You really need to google to see the answer to that for NC. One could be charged with "refusal to submit to chemical analysis” and will possibly with DWI as well. There are some protections, but a limit to the tolerance for refusal. As I understand it, common in many states. Was in effect when I got my license, eons ago, another state.</p>
<p>OP- Thank you for the update. I’m glad to hear he is in with a younger person. It would be nice if his cell mate doesn’t change while he is there. It good you were able to see him. I’m sure it helped all of you. I hope the rest of the time he is there goes as well as the first 2 days.</p>
<p>You can refuse to take a breathalyser test or any test for DUI, and ask for an attorney to be present and to advise you whether you should. Most DMVs will automatically slap a person with a suspension or loss of license for that, but there are things an attorney can do right away to work with that. If you are indeed under the influence, you are going to lose your license anyways. Your refusal to cooperate can be used as a strike against you.</p>
<p>However, in most cases, to my knowledge, you are better off NOT cooperating at all, and getting the attorney to the scene immediately, in terms of legal consequences. You give the attorney a lot more to work with when you do that. If the OP’s son should EVER be in this situation again, he certainly should refuse to cooperate at all and get an attorney ASAP. </p>
<p>You can look at DUI attorney’s websites in NC and read what they say to do and not to do. Here in NY, not cooperating, you are better off. In fact, that is why a lot of repeat offenders get off, and the cops nail the newbies who are intimidated and don’t know how the system works and cooperate, thinking they are winning points doing so.</p>
<p>Well, it probably is NOT a good idea to get legal advice from web sites… but FWIW, here’s what some NC DWI law firms have posted:</p>
<p>
[NC</a> DWI Process](<a href=“http://www.firststepnc.com/what-happens-if-someone-gets-a-dwi-in-north-carolina]NC”>http://www.firststepnc.com/what-happens-if-someone-gets-a-dwi-in-north-carolina)</li>
</ul>
<p>
[NC</a> DWI Process](<a href=“http://www.firststepnc.com/what-happens-if-someone-gets-a-dwi-in-north-carolina]NC”>http://www.firststepnc.com/what-happens-if-someone-gets-a-dwi-in-north-carolina)</p>
<p>I would not advise a client (or a relative) in my state to refuse the test. Keep in mind that the jail sentences we are discussing are minimums, not maximums. The person who refuses the test will have that used against him at any trial, and that is the type of factor that is likely to lead a judge to increase a sentence upon conviction. Jurors don’t tend to look too kindly on that sort of thing anyway. In NCDad’s case, there is also the fact of underage drinking and minor-in-possession. That could have been a path toward a very, very expensive legal bill, possibly culminating with a ticked-off judge deciding to make an example of the kid and imposing a 6 month jail sentence. </p>
<p>On the other hand, in my state, I would always advise clients to opt for an alternative chemical test - blood or urine. That’s because they preserve a sample for retesting – while it is unusual for a retest to produce a different result, it is common enough that the sample gets lost on the way to the lab – so I’ve often seen cases get dismissed that way. But other states may not give the arrested person the same right to choose among tests.</p>
<p>One of the NC web sites I linked to provided this advice, specific to that state:</p>
<p>
[Refusing</a> to Take a Breathalyzer Test in North Carolina Can Have Severe Consequence | SeiferFlatow, PLLC](<a href=“http://www.seiferflatow.com/breathalyzer-test/]Refusing”>http://www.seiferflatow.com/breathalyzer-test/)</p>
<p>I’d want to double check this before accepting it as true – but certainly it would be valuable for parents to learn more about the law in their own states and advise their kids accordingly.</p>
<p>Almost always when this sort of thing happens, a parent is “gobsmacked”. I think that is the case with the OP, and has been the case with most parents I know. And the kid too. No one I know prepared a kid on what to do if stopped by a cop while drinking and driving, or for any number of things. So most of the time, the newbies will cooperate fully, and be totally at the mercy of the courts. I can tell you that when my kids got into trouble, the police and the DA threw the book at them each time, and in our adversary system of law, that is to be expected. </p>
<p>And in this system, we are expected to fight back the best we can. Since laws and the enforcement of them differ from state to state and even within jurisdiction, it is wise to get a local attorney who specialized in these cases, to give you his/her opinion on how to behave, what to do, and what not to give and cooperate in situations. And if your kid does get a DWI or DUI or DWAI or whatever, the advice for the future should also be sought as it can make a huge difference in the consequences.</p>
<p>If you’ve been drinking and driving, most all DMVs will suspend the license or take it away altogether, I said before, and say again, but depending on how things pan out and how soon an experienced attorney is involved, that might have limitations too. So that consequence of the DUI is pretty much a given. Danged if you do and if you don’t. But looking at “raleighdwilawyer.com”'s website, you can get an idea what possiblities are there if you refuse, what your rights are, and where you are taking some chances. </p>
<p>The jurisdiction where one of my kids was charged has all of the same dire possible consequences for DUI if you refuse to take a breathalyzer, and I want to tell you that my kid walked off pretty much scot free even from auto DMV consequences when he flat out refused to cooperate with anyone until his attorney was present. I don’t want to get into the details, and every case is different, but I can tell you that I have seen dozens of such cases, many of them with repeat offenders get dismissed simply because of lack of evidence in DUI cases. when the accused refuses to basically give evidence against himself. The thing is, if he’s impaired, what capability for informed consent is there anyways? But the fact of the matter, is that you give the attorney more to work with, the less you give the poiice. There should be utmost courtesy, humility, shame, fear, tears, but adamance that until the lawyer is here, nothing is to be done because that is what he was told by parents and they will punish and withdraw support if he does not do as told, is really what should be said. Let the lawyer make the determination. </p>
<p>I can tell you that around here, the consequences are usually more severe if you take the breathalyzer especially if you know the reading is going to be way up there.</p>
<p>While I am in favor of legalization of drugs, I have to say that I find driving under the influence or drugs or alcohol a different matter altogether. </p>
<p>I would fight tooth and nail to get my kid off a possession of marijuana charge, something that I don’t think should be considered a crime, but I don’t think I would do the same for a DUI. </p>
<p>I would hope that an experience such as that of the OP’s son, or the meaningful community service described by someone else up-thread, would make it certain that he would never again get behind the wheel of a car after drinking, and thus potentially save his life or someone else’s. I doubt that successfully evading a charge–if the charge was indeed warranted–would send the same message as effectively</p>
<p>interesting thread and it made me look up my state’s laws and attorney’s websites. </p>
<p>“If you refuse a Breathalyzer test, the chances of winning are relatively slim.” </p>
<p>BUT…the advantages of refusing the breathalyzer over a criminal case is that the penalty for a first refusal is a civil violation that will not be a criminal conviction on your record. Many cities, towns will dismiss the criminal case if you agree to a plea of minimal sanctions(6 months).</p>
<p>AND…</p>
<p>“If you take the Breathalyzer test and fail it, you will be charged with a criminal DUI. These cases are much more difficult for the prosecution to prove than a Breathalyzer refusal. Your chances of winning a criminal DUI case is much greater than a refusal case!”</p>
<p>SO… </p>
<p>“2) Are there any bright line rules in Rhode Island concerning refusal?
a) Yes. If you are absolutely positive you will pass, take the Breathalyzer test.
b) If someone is injured in an accident - refuse the Breathalyzer.
c) If you already have a criminal DUI within the past 5 years, then you must refuse because you face mandatory jail time.
d) If you are in a profession in which a criminal conviction may hurt your career or subject you to professional discipline, i.e. lawyer, politician, teacher, then you probably should refuse.”</p>
<p>Speaking from a lot of years in the criminal justice system, planning various ways to “beat” a DUI case is a lot like a “system” to win in Vegas. It’s a gamble that rarely pays off. </p>
<p>A defendant who drives while inebriated can be convicted of DUI with or without BAC evidence. The police will testify as to their observations. I remember one client who swore to me that he had been set up by the police and quite confident that he could beat the case. Unfortunately, he had been very argumentative with the police officers and they had made a tape recording of the conversation. Of course the tape was devastating - not only was he slurring his word and sounding extremely drunk, but his hostility and verbal threats would have alienated any judge or jury that heard the tape. </p>
<p>Drunk people do very stupid things. Whatever that person has rehearsed or been counseled in advance won’t play out when they are intoxicated.</p>
<p>The laws differ from one state to another. In my state, the statutes make clear that the driver does NOT have the right to request a lawyer before talking a breath or blood test – and the police will so advise the person. So the cops aren’t going to indulge a kid who insists on waiting until the parents arrive – they will just treat that as a refusal.</p>
<p>The law in my state provides for a mandatory 96 hours in jail for the first conviction of DUI but expressly allows the judge to increase that sentence in cases where a person has refused a test.</p>
<p>So the net result when someone who is obviously intoxicated refuses the test is <em>not</em> that they get away without a conviction, but that that they typically end up with a DWI conviction plus additional jail time plus an automatic, longer period of license suspension. Their behavior and the testimony of the police officer is usually enough to convict them. One thing for sure: the police aren’t going to do you any favors at trial. They are for the most part testifying about subjective observations, and the prosecutor will make sure that the testimony comes out as slanted pro-prosecution as possible. </p>
<p>My advice about DUI is simple: DON’T drive when you have been drinking. For a minor, that is absolute. An adult can probably be o.k. with a single glass of wine or beer with dinner - it takes more than that to get to a BAC in excess of the legal limit. The problem is that many adults don’t really keep good track of how much they are drinking when socializing with others. Also, there’s a portion control issue. For example, the chart at [Blood</a> Alcohol Level Chart | Are You Legally Drunk? | BAC Level | drivinglaws.org](<a href=“http://dui.drivinglaws.org/drink-table.php]Blood”>Blood Alcohol Concentration Estimate: What's My BAC? | DuiDrivingLaws.org) says that a 3 oz glass of wine is 1 drink – I bet most people are drinking out of much larger wine glasses. </p>
<p>I’d suggest that adults who really want to drink socially and drive might want to buy their own BAC tester --there are small, key chain size units available for about $30 on up. You might be surprised at what you learn. (I’ve never tried one personally, I hardly ever drink so its not much of a concern for me-- my impression is that the cheaper units don’t last all that long, but once you have a sense of how your own drinking habits relate to BAC, you may have all the information you need to adjust your habits accordingly).</p>
<p>We each have our own starting points, our own beliefs about what “should be,” whether we can or should try to control the results, how we might, what’s unfair, what circumstances should matter, should temper judgment, etc. Plus our experiences.</p>
<p>That can’t change the facts that NC has a tough law, Son was cited for multiple points, and is enduring the consequences. We can ache for him, but his details (including NC laws) are central to* his* case. We can check our own laws, talk with our own kids, maybe some will advocate for changes in their laws. And yes, we can offer Dad our support and info that helps.</p>
<p>At this point, Dad is dealing with jail. In a week, he’ll deal with a son just home from jail, all the sorting out that’s needed, the support to help his child process this experience, the oversight and guidance needed to move forward. Perhaps we can help with that.</p>