<p>Thanks for the update NCDad…your cyber friends are breathing a little easier. Continued hugs, prayers and best wishes…</p>
<p>Yes, thanks. Any idea whether that 20yo will be with him the whole time? If I had to pick a cellmate a 20yo DUI kid isn’t a bad draw.</p>
<p>No idea, but those were my thoughts exactly. My wife and I were terrified that he would be with a career criminal or some creepy older man. My son didn’t tell me much about this cellmate but made it clear that the kid isn’t causing him any problems.</p>
<p>Such a relief.</p>
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Maybe you would, but the attitudes are reflected in the stereotypes asserted about all the other people in the jail where NCDad’s son is serving his sentence. </p>
<p>North Carolina chooses to treat offenders age 16 and over as adults. That means that on average, every 4-6% of the population of every jail in NC are juveniles (age 16-18). See [Jail</a> Information Reference. Compare reviews & ratings.](<a href=“http://jail-information.findthedata.org/]Jail”>http://jail-information.findthedata.org/) for stats. For example, in Durham county, there are 535 offenders; of those, 4.7% are juveniles; 79% are African-American. (I just picked Durham county because it’s a college community-- NCDad has chosen not to disclose his county, but perhaps he will be able to check the link above and find the stats for his local jail, if he’s interested)</p>
<p>And keep in mind that many of the “adults” in the jail are age 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 – that is, part of what disturbs you is the idea that a high school junior is housed among a lot of college age young men. </p>
<p>Overall, criminal defendants trend young, especially in county jails, where sentences are typically a year or less. Nationwide, 62% of jail inmates are age 34 or younger. (From 2002 statistics; see footnote 34 at <a href=“http://nmhealth.org/phd/dist3/documents/JailNCPHBehindBarsJillMoorePopGov.pdf[/url]”>http://nmhealth.org/phd/dist3/documents/JailNCPHBehindBarsJillMoorePopGov.pdf</a> )</p>
<p>So where is the compassion for the other jail inmates? Why the assumption that they are so different than NCDad’s son? </p>
<p>It’s no accident that NCDad’s son is sharing a cell with another DUI offender. He says they live in a small county with a low crime rate – so it’s a good bet that more people are in that particular jail serving sentences for DUI than anything else, especially since DUI’s tend to be the only misdemeanor offenses with mandatory jail time attached. (It’s very common for there to be mandatory minimum sentences for felonies, including nonviolent drug offenses – but I can’t think of many other examples of mandatory jail sentences for misdemeanors). </p>
<p>I certainly can understand why NCDad is feeling frightened and worried – but my point is that most of the other inmates in the jail are human beings just like NCDad’s son, perhaps a little older but that doesn’t make them into monsters.</p>
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<p>calmom – I get what you’re saying. However, this person has shown that he has a problem with alcohol, a serious problem that resulted in his putting others’ lives at risk. If he is an alcoholic, then he sure better stay away from alcohol. If he is not an alcoholic, then he should be able to keep from “falling off the wagon” by just making a decision and sticking to it. In that case, he could give up alcohol just like I’d give up eating gluten if I were diagnosed with celiac disease. I’d be sorely tempted to eat a homemade biscuit, especially one that is hot and buttered. Biscuits are at just about every food-related social gathering that I attend. I love biscuits as much as any food, cooks often insist on my (or anyone else) having “just one more biscuit,” and I would so want to take just one little bite – but I wouldn’t if wheat had been a problem for me.</p>
<p>If this student had gone into a school or business firing a loaded gun, I would say that, at the least, he has a problem with guns and should never pick up one again, even if the bullets didn’t hit anyone.</p>
<p>I’m always for backup plans, though – like teenagers having contraceptives available even if they’ve committed to abstinence. Maybe he could plan on having someone with him to remind him not to drink or give him a ride in case he does.</p>
<p>I am behind you 100% on your observations about how we feel about the “other” vs. “our own”.</p>
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Where are you getting the sense that people have no compassion for other inmates? I have a lot of compassion for a lot of people with difficult circumstance, but it doesn’t mean I could solve everyone’s problem or need to get on a soap box to lecture people all the time. I do many things on my own time, just like many other people, to help others, but it doesn’t mean I need to advertise it. As far as I could tell, no one has expressed that there should be different treatment for different class of people. As someone else posted, I would have felt the same if OP’s son was not white or poor.</p>
<p>So glad to hear he is getting through this … one day at a time NCdad. And glad he has a cellmate at the present time who is not much different than your son.</p>
<p>I think cromette’s post # 716 is spot on. Just because we are focusing on and being supportive of NCdad and his son does NOT mean that any of us lack sympathy for other inmates. It simply isnt the focus of this thread, nor would it be expected to be, and IMO, to take a huge leap to accuse posters of classism or of having stereotypic reactions/thoughts about inmates (which actually isnt too surprising were it to be true assuming most posters here have had no direct experience with incarcerated individuals) is simply an accusation without foundation. </p>
<p>It was for this reason, lookingforward, that I asked to be pointed to any post here that would support the accusations of classism in this thread, because it is a harsh accusation and if there is foundation for that opinion there should be some substantiation. The goal is not to point fingers with “he said-she said” but rather to understand what comments might lead someone to read classism into this thread. If I missed it, as apparently I and others have, it would be helpful to understand on what some readers based their opinion. If there is no data here to support that accusation, then perhaps that accusation should be retracted. People are entitled to their opinions, but if it ls a harsh accusation and if there is evidence of it here, it would be helpful to see in order to understand better. </p>
<p>Garland’s post 713 is also well said. In generalities, those without financial means will be less likely to be able to afford top legal counsel and explore other ways of getting sentences reduced, etc. In generalities of course what she says there is true. But again, and I will move on, but clearly it fries my cookies, for someone to claim that there is an undertone in THIS THREAD that “poor kids who dont have the benefits of a comfortable home life” should be jailed whereas middle class kids should not is an accusation that seems without merit. Maybe buried somewhere in the 700+ posts something was said that might have led to this interpretation. IMO, if anything was said, its more likely related to the fact that may posters here dont have direct experience with incarcerated individuals moreso than any suggestion of classisim.</p>
<p>*** crossposted with oldfort. Also agree.</p>
<p>OP - thank-you for the update. Glad to hear your son is just bored. I am sure you will be really happy when he is home.</p>
<p>NCDad you have my continued prayers and support. My heart aches for you and your wife and what you must be going through. I am thankful for the update and I will continue to pray for your son’s wellbeing.</p>
<p>Exactly, Old Fort. If the assertion that we would not be sympathetic to NC Dad’s situation if his race/class was different, then perhaps Calmom should not practice law because what she is saying is that we as a jury of peers can not evaluate objectively based on our own personal biases. I’d like to believe that’s not true. People are people and compassion for circumstances is not reserved just for the privileged or a skin color. </p>
<p>I believe that NC Dad is rightfully concerned. His teen aged son did something incredibly stupid - and I think we have covered that aspect very well. Now he is paying the price. He was given jail time. What parent, no matter what their circumstances, would not feel complete anxiety about this situation. I find it incredible that, while his son is sitting in jail at this moment, this father is reaching out to others. Why wouldn’t I have compassion for this family? </p>
<p>All the statistics - blah, blah, blah. They just muddle things. No one ever reads them and that’s the truth. Did you know that 50% of marriages end in divorce yet people still get married each day? Why? Because it’s the old “it will never happen to me” (or my kid?) Everyone is invincible…</p>
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<p>I can certainly relate to that. When we found out my friend went to jail (or had a DUI at all), it was as good as somebody telling us she was actually from Mars-- we were just drop dead shocked, we had absolutely no experience to relate this to. Once we had a chance to adjust to the idea we realized she wasn’t a martian and obviously these things can happen to anyone who makes a mistake, and luckily our friend (and your S) had the resources and support after the experience to move on and put it behind them. But of course it would be a shock to the system and you would be worried, that’s only natural.</p>
<p>It is good he has an age mate with a similar offense as his cellmate. Maybe they will learn some good things from each other. That boys parents are probably just as scared of your S as you were of him.</p>
<p>NCDad - so glad your son is doing ok and his main complaint is boredom! I hope the rest of his sentence passes by quickly and uneventfully. I’m happy to hear his cellmate is also in for DUI and not a violent crime.</p>
<p>All of the youthful offenders I’ve met or heard about in my area have been sent to the state youth facility. The focus of the juvenile programs is supposed to be rehabilitation. I think that that is appropriate, and I deplore the current trend towards trying teenagers as adults. They aren’t adults. If there needs to be some special form of detention for violent youth in order to insure the safety of the other youthful offenders, fine. But let’s not pretend that a 17 yr old is an adult, no matter WHAT he or she may have done.</p>
<p>In my area, the OP’s kid would probably encounter a grab bag of adult offenders in jail. (Many of them, of course, would be mentally-ill people who receive little or no treatment and thus live on the streets or in jail, since our society would prefer to fund jails and prisons.) Sure, it is not the same thing as being sent to Attica. It is also true that most of us have probably heard much about the conditions in prisons–rapes, gang rule, violence–and having little or no experience of such things conflate that with “jail.”</p>
<p>Well said all the way around, consolation. Sad that the mental health services have gotten pushed to the back of the line, but thats a topic for another thread. Also agree that rehab should be available for all, but especially for teens and first offenders. And absolutely agree that people confuse jail and prison.</p>
<p>Sometimes, in a discussion, especially on an anon forum, the weak spot is just how things are worded. How do we know what the other poster really thinks, how he/she would really react IRL? Sometimes, even when one offers a simple, positive statement, it can lead another to interpret in his/her own way. Sometimes, a string of comments, not necessarily specific, can lead to an accumulated impression. So be it. We are familiar with some of the group from other threads, but don’t have the benefit of truly knowing each other, our fuller perspectives and actions, seeing body language, etc. </p>
<p>This one is different because it hits a particular nerve. Our fears for our own kids. A little more finger pointing and it will be closed. Most of us can live with that, but I’d like Dad to have this venue open. If someone calls you on a perceived slant, says, “check your perspective,” we can ignore and carry on. Or respond thoughtfully. </p>
<p>In NC, there is mandatory sentencing of 30 days for this offense, as it was cited- or 10 days if the plaintiff can get it knocked down to a one-step lesser charge. That’s the context. I remember when these harsher penalties were first proposed, at least where I was then living, and how many, many advocated for them. Several posters have said they will discuss this thread with their kids. I would say we should all also be checking how the laws work in our own states.</p>
<p>*I see, jym, that you addressed finger-pointing. I just mean the need to track back. Each time we get a kid-in-trouble thread, it is so hard to separate our own emotions. On these long threads, it’s so easy to get impressions, whether or not a close examination would prove out.</p>
<p>I had the discussions on similar topics around the time of the Duke Lacrosse Case and we used KC Johnson’s book as the reading material. There are a lot of issues involved - the criminal justice system, the politics and employment aspects of the criminal justice system, bad actors in the CJ system, etc. Our kids don’t drink so alcohol specifically isn’t an issue but I could see lots of other areas where one could be ensnared by the law and knowing something about how it works may be helpful.</p>
<p>Yes, the fascination factor with this DUI is that it could happen to our kids or those of friends, neighbors and relatives - and what would we do?</p>
<p>Thanks, lookingforward. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. Don’t think anyone in interested in “finger pointing”. My question was wanting to understand what in this thread led someone to believe that there was some sort of “undertone” in the thread that poor kids should be treated differently than middle class kids. I certainly didnt glean that from the posts I read in this thread and wanted to understand where someone got that impression. That is all.</p>
<p>Thanks for the update, NCDad. I’m sure this feels like the longest 10 days of your life. You and your family are in my prayers.</p>
<p>calmom: there is absolutely NOTHING you said in your post #703 that I am not already aware of. I mean, I was aware of all that by about the second week in law school, yet I still wrote what I did. </p>
<p>Fact is, there are plenty of actions that are equally, if not more, likely to cause harm to other people than drunk driving, but nonetheless are entirely legal or are only subject to fines, not jail time. The following car-related activities are all punishable only by fines, if at all, so long as no harm occurs, and many are just as likely to kill other people as is drunk driving: driving tired; driving on old, failing brakes; driving a car that is past its inspection; driving around a car with a giant “R” sticker for the inspection; and texting while driving. </p>
<p>I’m also really failing to see why your discussion of what the law is matters in a discussion of what the law should be. Many of us think that a good response to a first-time drunk-driving offence would be to throw the person in jail for the night for the dual purpose of sobering him up and punishing him, hit him with a huge fine ($1,000 sounds about right), suspend his license, and make him do some sort of alcohol counseling. And no, I wouldn’t be more supportive of jail time of this were a poor black kid from Harlem.</p>