<p>i agree with Garland and doubleplay and others. Your daughter does nto sound spoiled to me, and if she is lonely, she is missing out on much of the college experience. Listen to her; encourage her follow her instincts, and don't focus too much on what you yourself had or did not have at her age. (And I certainly think that if she misses the company of young men, there's no way around that--Smith is a women's school, and knowing there are men at Amherst doesn't make them accessible as friends/colleagues OR romantic interests in the same way that they are at a coed school.)</p>
<p>1down, you sound like my dad--worked his way through a Big 10 school and managed to be president of his fraternity and the inter-franternity council to boot. He can't help himself. He can hardly abide the affluence he provided his children. His constant refrain when we were children: "Get a job!" </p>
<p>First of all, you are not alone. Tens of thousands of students talk about transferring. The vast majority don't do it.</p>
<p>If you can, try not to let your tough experience influence your judgement regarding your daughter. Try not to overreact--or, if you need to-- put your overreactions online!</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Is your daughter an introvert? </p></li>
<li><p>Did she have a wide circle of friends in high school or not so much?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Americans tend to send their children to college as a prelude to a career or profession but besdies career possiblities, college also opens up a flood of intense emotions and intellectual spirals. If a student doesn't have peers to share that experience, it can be overwhelming and even destructive. A kid who is not making same sex friends is a kid who needs mentoring and advice from parents and counselors, in my opinion.</p>
<p>The inability to make same-sex friends is a warning bell for mental illness. The inability to read social cues may indicate a mental illness. College kids face a brand new social setting and it is very frightening for those who literally cannot fathom their peers.</p>
<p>Let her fill out transfer apps but ask her to go in to see her advisor and a counselor.</p>
<p>Wow. It's good to know that whenever I told my mother that I was unhappy for reasons completely unrelated to money or material wealth, she was probably wondering how she ended up with such a spoiled brat. And I bet that's the same thing the one close friend I ever had at school was always trying to say when I would try to explain to her how depressed and lonely I felt and all she would ever say was "Think about the starving children in Africa! You're so much better off then they are! They don't get to go to college and you do! You should be happy!" </p>
<p>Maybe some people actually enjoy social isolation and complete failure to make friends, but I am not one of those people. Maybe the OP's daughter isn't either. If nonmaterial things are supposed to be totally irrelevant to happiness, why do people always say that money doesn't buy happiness? </p>
<p>Of course, there's a difference between complaining that you have absolutely no friends at your school despite repeated attempts to make them, and complaining that you only have 5 friends now when you had 10 in high school and last weekend you even had to stay home on Saturday night (oh, the horror). If people are going to peg me as a "whiner" for pointing out what I feel to be legitimate problems in my life, it follows that there's got to be someone somewhere who really is just whining.</p>
<p>Blah: We are not on the phone with the OP's D, she may be a whiner or not- only he knows for sure, so we need to offer suggestions for everything. It is quite possible whe is whining, but more likley that she sis struggling to make a whole new world for herself..the big question is whether this is a normal bump in the road to which she will adjust & learn, or a major problem needing a change. If it is a situation requiring change, then OP has to determine if it is simply a bad fit or possibly a case of a latent depression surfacing.</p>
<p>If this happen to me, I’ll be rather erring on the side of caution. I am not sure how much I know my DD situation. I’ll need to be non-judgmental in order to understand my DD. By showing support and love, hopefully I could learn more and will be in a better position to help.</p>
<p>I'd like to second doubleplay's suggestion, with the caveat that she do all the transfer work herself. She's not a slacker; instead, she appears to be doing everything I'd want my daughter to do at school and is still unhappy. Unless there is some undisclosed financial issue related to a scholarship, I'd cut her some slack.</p>
<p>Well- my concern is that today is Feb 27 and soon to be the 28th. Many of the transfer apps are due March 1, which is in 2 days. That means (theoretically) scores, recs, dean's letter, transcripts- not to mention the essays and all the other forms. There are some due the 15th, and a few (Chicago and Emory included) a little later.</p>
<p>Smith has two issues which might be making it particularly hard for her to feel comfortable socially. One is, it's all women. The other is, the Northampton community, especially the large gay community, has a style that is strongly political and outspoken ("in your face").
Could either of these facts be troubling to her re: feeling like she belongs?</p>
<p>I'm also recalling a comment a Smith student, someone known previously to my daughter, who sought out her old friend while touring the campus. My D couldn't evaluate the all-women's choice. This student said, wisely I thought, "If your friends in h.s. were mostly girls, you won't miss men on campus. If you had mixed (both male and female friends, then you might miss men on campus.) Also, the girl told my D she had "come out" on campus and that confused and troubled my D.
They all have a unique story, but if you're wondering why seh might not feel as comforable making friends, she might be getting used to many new realities all around her.
She might also (close to deadline like this) be expressing her feelings by saying she wants to do this action of transferring.
Try to get to the heart of what's really bothering her.</p>
<p>I'd try to encourage her to make some friends over deciding to transfer since the educational experience has been so positive. From the little bit of info in the first post, it doesn't sound like she's clinically depressed. Learning how to handle less then desirable social situations is all part of life. Maybe getting involved in something off-campus would help. If she does decide to transfer I don't understand withdrawing financial support unless she's giving up unmatchable financial aid. I do like the idea of her being responsible for all the paper work and deadlines.</p>
<p>Op - you may be afraid it's a child gone spoilt, but it may be a young woman questioning & reaching out for help from the people she loves & trusts the most. She may only need an ear, & if you give her that you will be better able to tell where the truth lies. If it's impt enough for her to do the footwork, then it may be a good idea to transfer; but it won't be easy to be the new young person. Your D doesn't sound spoilt; she has good grades & a job. You may imagine she is having the life. You may have given her so much more than you ever had that you cannot imagine why she could be unhappy. I look back on my own college days as pretty magical, but in reality it was pretty difficult at times. You'll always be her strongest advocate, don't stop now. As for us parents, if we have spoilt children, I'm thinking... it's not their fault! ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Blah: We are not on the phone with the OP's D, she may be a whiner or not- only he knows for sure, so we need to offer suggestions for everything. It is quite possible whe is whining, but more likley that she sis struggling to make a whole new world for herself..the big question is whether this is a normal bump in the road to which she will adjust & learn, or a major problem needing a change. If it is a situation requiring change, then OP has to determine if it is simply a bad fit or possibly a case of a latent depression surfacing.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's pretty much why I added that last paragraph in my post... Based on my own experiences I would be inclined to think that anyone who claims to be depressed because of social life-related problems actually is genuinely depressed (and I get annoyed when their problems are brushed off), but I know that that doesn't always have to be the case. </p>
<p>Some transfer application deadlines are March 15. I know this because I got partway through transferring once, then decided everything was ok and I didn't need to after all, then had my roommates (who I thought I was quite friendly with, one of my reasons to stay) have the "too many people in the apartment, can you find someplace else to live next year?" chat with me at about 11pm on March 14. :( Better to send them anyway, then decide whether to accept later...</p>
<p>
[quote]
If she's not happy, she's not happy.
[/quote]
I double this thought and as a HUGE believer in fit the big question is she unhappy because of where she is in her life or is a lot of it that Smith is a bad fit for her. From what I read Smith is a terrific place with a VERY strong feel to it and I would think a fair number of students would start there and decide they don't like the culture as much as they thought they would. If this were my daughter I would try to help her figure out why she is unhappy at Smith (you've shared some of this) and why things would be different at school B to which she is considering tranfering? What about the school or the students is different that she believes it will be easier to make friends? The other thing I would do is definately suggest doing overnight visits to any school to which see is considering transfering ... so she can get a feel for the culture at these alternative schools.</p>
<p>Yikes!! If this is how you react when your kid wants to transfer, how would you react if your kid flunked out?</p>
<p>OK, two more kids in the pipeline and you thought kid #1 was all set to sail through. Yes, it's alarming and disappointing to hear this news. Yes, it's overwhelming and disruptive and inconvenient to initiate the transfer process. Yes, you invested 10,000 hours on the CC forum while she was in high school to help her to make the most informed application process and decisions. Yes, you can't grasp how someone could be unhappy at Smith. </p>
<p>Your intelligent and hardworking daughter is a top student at a top school and she's telling you that there's a problem. What's your next move? You are posting about how your daughter's failure to find happiness at school is evidence that she is spoiled and whiny. She's test driven the school for three full semesters. That's enough time for her to be certain. Probably it's been on her mind for a while. I feel that she is very brave, realistic, and insightful to decide to transfer and it probably took a lot of guts to approach you about the issue. I see this as growth, not failure.</p>
<p>Consider your post in reverse, from your child's perspective:</p>
<p>"I just have to rant a minute. My mom has indicated that she is "unhappy" with my concerns about the expensive school I attend and my decision to transfer to another school. I'm just not blending socially as well as I expected. My grades are great, I like the classes and professors, and I even have a 10 hour a week campus job I enjoy. This school has so much to offer, and for what it costs, I feel I should be happier. I don't know what's wrong with me; why am I not happy here? This school has everything, except it's not a good fit for me socially. I keep asking myself, why don't I have any close friends here? I am working hard but I feel so lonely.</p>
<p>When my mom was a college student, she put herself through the state uni, working up to 30 hours a week while pulling a full course load, and living off-campus with a roommate to cut expenses. Her largest concerns were having enough money to pay the rent and buy food, and turning in my assignments on time. Compared to her, I feel like a loser whining about not having enough friends, sitting in my single dorm room, with full board, at one of the best private liberal colleges in the country. I have it so easy and all I need to do to make the experience perfect is to feel happy... why can't I?</p>
<p>I know that as a college student and young adult, it's my responsibility to start to find my own way in life. However, transferring is a big decision and I've been thinking about it for months. When I finally brought up the subject with my parents, my mom hit the roof. I felt terrible letting her down after all the support she gave me in researching and visiting colleges and how excited we all were when I started here. My parents are so proud that I'm doing well academically at Smith. I've tried really hard to find a way to be happy here, and I feel I've exhausted all my options. I've given myself time to adjust, I've tried different strategies, I've thrown myself into my academics. Now I'm starting my fourth semester here and I'm positive this school is not right for me socially. In terms of transferring, it's now or never. I need to examine all of this with my mom, but she thinks I'm whining and acting spoiled and can't understand how anyone could be unhappy here. That's making me doubt myself even more. Oh, maybe I should just drop it and try harder and graduate from here. It's only 5 more semesters of being lonely and unhappy and then I'll be out of here."</p>
<p>I'm assuming that your daughter has decent social skills. Regardless of whether she ultimately transfers, are there specific social skills and tools that your daughter might need/want to develop or could apply to this situation, which would be of benefit to her in the future?</p>
<p>I knew I would receive valuable insight from the other parents on this board. Okay, to clarify: my daughter is straight, but has liberal social views, so the relatively high gay student ratio is probably not an issue. She does have friends at Smith, but I think they are not as emotionally close to her as the friends she had in HS. Though, I think some of the parents who have counseled that perhaps she is experiencing a "Significant Learning Opportunity" in real world sociology may be on to something.</p>
<p>The alternative school she is now considering is our home state's flagship uni (the largest public uni in the country at last count). When we were researching schools, I had a hard time supporting this school as a choice since I had worked there for 7 years as a staff employee and know way too much about the quality of the undergraduate education. Maybe it was the 5th senior who ended up at my desk in tears because they couldn't get into some critical class they needed for graduation because it was full that caused me to think a small private school would be a better choice for my own child. Or maybe it was knowing on a personal level the Ph.D. students who end up teaching the vast majority of undergraduate classes. And, trying to get said instructors to understand basic instructions in English.</p>
<p>Okay, for the financial support thing: that was me ranting. I really wouldn't withhold funding for her education. If she had insisted on this other school from the start, we would have fully supported her, just like we are doing at Smith. I should be excited! We'll have at least $20,000 more money to spend for ourselves if she transfers!</p>
<p>1down--good to hear back from you! I understand your misgivings about big schools; I went to one. however, my D went to an LAC, and also experienced problems getting the classes she needed. One or two profs in the department on sabbatical or pregnancy leave could lacerate the schedule, especially for upper class students who needed certain classes in their major.</p>
<p>OTOH, I transfered from an LAC to a big U, and in upper level classes, the class sizes were no bigger than at the LAC, plus there were so many more to choose from, that if one were full, I had other options.</p>
<p>Either size school, it's what you make of it. If she is really dead set on this, I say take the 20K and run! :)</p>
<p>Sounds like Smith is simply not a good fit for your daughter. She would probably excel at any school, so that's a moot issue. </p>
<p>A large state Uni and Smith are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Methinks the gal wants some men around and a non-political social life!</p>
<p>She's only 18 so this is normal and expected.</p>
<p>I would second speckledegg and also add this thought- </p>
<p>How much of your resentment is really because you have invested so much in your daughter's attending Smith- paid for 3 semesters, helped with all the pre-work, told all your family and friends (and this last one is a big one)- and now it is all for naught?</p>
<p>I had a good friend whose daughter was very successful in hs, exited with awards and accolades, went off to a prestigious LAC, and ended up dropping out by the end of the first year. My friend was humiliated! She couldn't bear to tell all her coworkers, family members, and others what a "failure" her wonderful, successful, superstar daughter turned out to be after having reported so much positive news over the past four years! Honestly, this was her attitude- I could tell because she was so hush-hush about everything, like it was an embarrassment to be swept under the rug, after years of being a wonderful high school student, she felt like her daughter was letting her down. When in reality, her daughter just wasn't happy and thriving at the school whose name appeared on the bumper sticker of mom's car.</p>
<p>Like I said before, you know your daughter, whether she's really spoiled or not. I would also encourage you to ask yourself if you are internalizing this a little.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>When in reality, her daughter just wasn't happy and thriving at the school whose name appeared on the bumper sticker of mom's car.<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Another lesson learned via CC: no bumper stickers on the car until graduation!</p>
<p>To the OP -- If she transfers back to the state U in the fall, presumably she'll be a junior. I would think she'd have professors for classes in her intended major, since she'll be pretty much finished with core requirements...</p>
<p>Would she qualify for the Honors program at this time? That may also help her get a more personalized education at a big school.</p>
<p>Deep breath. She's dealing with her discomfort and unhappiness in a productive way. She's not sabotaging herself, her academics, or her future. If she were my kiddo, I'd ask her to take a hard look at the issues that have made her unahppy so she doesn't replicate them at a different school. Some introspection and personal growth would be a good thing and turn this into a positive change for everyone.</p>
<p>Did you walk 5 miles uphill in the snow to get to class? I know my parents did.</p>
<p>It seems to me as though you are complaining that your child is spoiled and does not have to work for her education. Whose fault is it that she is spoiled? Parents seem to want to give their kids an easier life then they had but then complain that the kid does not appreciate all he/she has. If she wants to transfer then let her, why does it matter so much to you? Make her do the work involved in transfering and let it go. She may find out that the school is not the reason for her unhappiness. I also think single dorm rooms make it more difficult for freshman to make friends. I begged my mom to let me have a single next year, as an only child I don't share well :) My mom said absolutely not you need to socialize and learn to live with others. When I asked about sophomore year she said if I want to pay the difference between the cost of a single and a double it was fine with her. I think I will stick with the double.</p>