Spoiled kid rant!

Parents Forum
41

<p>A couple of thoughts; she is a sophmore, so this is not her freshman year, Daviban. And she will be 20 in June. It is too late for her to apply for a transfer to the state U that she was considering, so I don't know what she'll decide. Truly, though, it will be her decision to make.</p>

<p>For the public humiliation, no I don't think that's what is bothering me. I think it really is that I was so jealous when I was in school of other students who had full financial support from their families. Here I thought I was giving my daughter this gift of time and energy for her to make the most of her education and she doesn't appreciate what a remarkable thing it is to have.</p>

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<p>
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Here I thought I was giving my daughter this gift of time and energy for her to make the most of her education and she doesn't appreciate what a remarkable thing it is to have.

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<p>Was it George B Shaw who said youth is wasted on the young?</p>

<p>Your feelings are understandable. But what she's doing is part of her growing up. A necessary step, disappointing as it may be to a parent.</p>

<p>I'll never forget the day when my 6 year old daughter behaved in a completely unacceptable and upsetting way at a family camp we attended when the kids were young. A wise and sympathetic dad said to me, "All of our kids disappoint us at some time or another. " A very obvious point, but one I needed to hear at the time.</p>

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<p>Re: post #41, you are terrific to identify what's bothering you, brave to name it "jealousy", recognizing what you might be bringing to the table this week from your own college memories. By clearing away those cobwebs, surely you'll be better able to see it now through your daughter's eyes, whatever that may mean.</p>

<p>Because my mom and I were close, and I was far from home at college, I did have a bad habit of calling her when I was at the height of frustration, ranting/weeping to my mom (which helped me a lot), and with that courage revise my direction or feel so much better. Then, a week later (it was the days of collect calls from phone booths, before all this frequent communication we enjoy today), I'd call again, and she'd ask me for follow-up. Turns out she had been stewing on it all week, while I had moved forward.</p>

<p>So, if the transfer concept was delivered to you as a "first-news" kind of message, that's different than if it came to you as her "decision-after-much-thought." </p>

<p>Speaking of communication, I sometimes think that kids did better when they had to actually say good-bye to their h.s. friends, in terms of making new ones. I often see my kids in such close contact with their old friends, via buddy lists and so on, taking lots of time and opportunity to chat with them rather than brave the new strangers around them. WHile it's wonderful to stay in touch, and very consoling, perhaps hearing about all the "fun" the old h.s. crowd is having at the state uni is holding her back? Also, would they really share their down-moments online or just glorify how "awesome the party is" over here. I wonder...</p>

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<p>There is a saying: "You are only as happy as your unhappiest child." The pesky little rascals have minds and emotions and opinions of their own! </p>

<p>"Here I thought I was giving my daughter this gift of time and energy for her to make the most of her education and she doesn't appreciate what a remarkable thing it is to have." We want our kids to have what we think is important. You did give her the gift of your time and energy and love... you accomplished and achieved that for her, and with her, so that she could make the most of her education and her college years, and that is something to feel very VERY good about. Chances are she can never truly understand how deeply your college experience shaped your perspective, because she doesn't have the same life experience. It will resonate more with her when she's older, and she starts to understand what it's like to be a parent. She has been able to begin her college education with many advantages and many open doors. You are right: it is remarkable and a dream scenario for many, many students. Maybe if she transfers, she'll look back 30 years from now when she tours Smith with her own high school junior, and wonder why the heck she wasn't thrilled to pieces there. Then again, in 30 years she may feel transferring was the best decision she ever made. The important thing, is that she makes the best decision she can given the information she has. Hope all goes well, either way!</p>

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<p>OP - to what does D attribute her inability to make close friends? If you can't pin-point that, then what's the basis for thinking she'll make those connections elsewhere. Also, it is more diff to break into established friendship networks as a transfer than to estab then as a frosh.</p>

<p>As for spoiled, I really don't see it, though there are certainly fin aid students for whom transferring is less of an option - - but that doesn't mean that your D has to or ought to tough it out if she doesn't have to.</p>

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<p>If it's any consolation, I completely understood where my dad was coming from when he ranted about the importance of jobs--at his large group of under-10s. </p>

<p>When he found out my younger brothers were smoking, he said he wouldn't pay their private school tuitions because it was a bad investment. (My mother paid from that moment on). He hit a major wobbly patch when my college tuition bills came in--and renegged on the original promise to send me wherever I wanted to go--even though the money was in trust from my grandparents. I think he thought I would move to State school--I found other ways to fill the gap.</p>

<p>I survived his skewed perspective. I still love him to bits. It's only money. He suffered dire poverty as a child. He has never been able to feel 'rich'--even though he has wonderful tangible and intangible assets. It's a conflicted life for him. He thinks I should be prosecuted for over-indulging my boys--but he is over the moon with their maturity, ambition and character. They are both stronger and wiser than any of his four boys at the same age. </p>

<p>He couldn't be any prouder. I let him go to the Freshman Parent Weekends, he is such a proud pigeon.</p>

<p>I understood the depth of his sacrifices when I attended his retirement party. What an awful job he stayed in for 20 years. Awful. 'About Schmidt' was a good parody of my dad's work life. And they didn't really like him. Poor guy.</p>

<p>I've had a completely different life--partially because I don't have that fear of poverty. That's the biggest gift he gave me because it allows me to be one hundred times more daring in my business choices.</p>

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<p>1down22go</p>

<p>Does she assume that she can make friends more easily at another school? Also, has she done any reading in this area? There are lovely books by Norman Vincent Peale which really do help one learn to make pals and stuff. </p>

<p>I think that there is something going on which goes further than not making pals, but that is just my assumpion. I mean no disrespect to your child.</p>

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<p>1down22go, Maybe your D and mine should get together. My D, a first year student at another LAC within the Five Colleges Consortium, is probably just as spoiled. </p>

<p>Seriously, I drove 14 hrs to see her last week to take her out to dinner becuase she sounded so unhappy on the phone. It is just second semester jitter although she did put in two transfer applications.</p>

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<p>I may add that as she is in her second year, perhaps you two can talk about doing a year abroad. That should get her out and leave her with only a year to finish up at Smith.</p>

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<p>Hey, that year abroad is a great idea, my D did in 1st year decide that if she stayed at her school she would do a term abroad and she just got approved today for the program! It is a great mental break from her school and would be even more important if she were not feeling happy there.</p>

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<p>My daughter originally planned to go JYA to France, but is a neuroscience major and was having a difficult time scheduling all her science classes with the French classes she needed to qualify for the program. So, last semester she started talking about doing a semester at Pomona next spring (her jr. year), which sounded like a great idea to me. Now, suddenly, even that doesn't appear to be enough of a change for her.</p>

<p>One of the issues for resolving this parent/daughter issue is that we live in Texas, so we don't have very many opportunities to talk face to face with her. So, sitting down with a pot of tea and brainstorming ideas needs to happen via telephone.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the advice and new perspectives. I know this is not really a big issue in the long run, and she will be fine wherever she ends up.</p>

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<p>Maybe she should go to France for a semester--and make up the course in summer school if she has to.</p>

<p>The girl needs a change of scene!</p>

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<p>1down, my son attended a small, pricey LAC for his first 2 years, and surprised me in April of his sophomore year with his seemingly sudden decision to "take time off". He ended up taking 3 years off, and is now completing his education at a lower-tier state university. </p>

<p>After he made the decision to take time off, I found out that there were a number of issues that he had not discussed with me and that I was unaware of that contributed to his decision. When I learned of those facts, it was obvious to me that he could not go back to his initial school in any case -- he had to transfer. </p>

<p>In hindsight, he clearly made the right decision. The college he is at now is a much better social fit, and he has really become engaged with the local community and campus in a very positive way. So that's the good part. The bad part is that he simply isn't getting the same quality of education in his classes that he would have at his original school. He was an "undecided" liberal arts major, now a poli sci major so I don't think it matters much for him -- he probably learns more that is relevant to his interest from his work outside of school than in the classroom anyway, and the opportunities for such work are probably greater where he is now than they would have been at his LAC. </p>

<p>However, in another major, that could really be a setback. If your daughter is considering graduate school, or medical school -- she really does need to look at how the offerings and quality of teaching at her intended school would compare to Smith. It's possible that it is better at a flagship U -- but if it is hard to get classes in her major, or if even the upper level classes are huge -- then it could be a problem. </p>

<p>On the other hand, when my daughter was very young I used to get frustrated because she seemed to place more importance on her social "fit" than on her own opportunities. She was a dancer who was very serious so several times we had to change studios in search of better quality teachers -- but no matter how good the teacher, she would not stick with a new studio or class if she could not make friends. I couldn't reconcile "love the teacher, love the class" with her decision several times to quit because she could not make friends with the kids. </p>

<p>Then it dawned on me that my daughter is a different person than me, and that while I am somewhat introverted and self-centered, my daughter is an extrovert who derives her energy from the interaction and support of others. So in her life, it is very important to be surrounded by good friends. I realized that I was simply looking at my own values, and that her values (placing more importance on friendship than on personal achievement) were equally worthy of respect.</p>

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<p>Someone posted taking a year off. I was thinking about my sister who went to Smith. She took Junior Year abroad at the University of Geneva and talks about it to this day as one of the best things she's ever done. Would that help your daughter?</p>

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<p>Smith has some great JYA options, but the only one that doesn't require significant language fluency is to Edinburgh, and that didn't capture my daughter's fancy. </p>

<p>I think she has pretty much decided to go to the local community college for fall semester next year, with plans to transfer to the state university next spring. Oh well, as parents we provided her with options, advice and support. This is her life, as someone pointed out, so I intend to go ahead and let her live it. My challenge now is to not react with bitterness at her decision and if she doesn't find whatever was lacking at Smith at the community college or state university, not to tell her, "I told you so."</p>

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<p>if it is possible I'd see if she can hold off telling Smith til she sits in on a few CC classes. I think the lower level of instruction might shock her into reconsidering. If your CC is similar to the one in my county..forget language issues in France, check out CC teachers.
I'd also personally call the big state U both the department and admissions, and be sure they wouldn't take her as a transfer despite the cutoff.</p>

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<p>"This young woman I raised is whining about not having enough friends, sitting in her single dorm room, with full board, at one of the best private liberal colleges in the country?"</p>

<p>My perspective is: when you're paying outrageous sums of money for a college, it ought to deliver the whole shebang. For whatever reason, daughter+Smith=unhappiness. Smith would be quick to tell you that the social/residential experience is a critical component of college. If a sophomore is willing to leave to go to community college, then there's a very significant and probably unfixable problem in that equation. (I was miserable at my first school, but I would have stayed if community college were the alternative, even for one semester.) I don't know your D, but you haven't told us anything that makes me think "spoiled." It can be a sign of maturity and responsibility to acknowledge that your life is not working out as you planned and to take action to change it.</p>

<p>For whatever it's worth, I'm assuming that the "largest school" you're referring to is either Texas or Ohio State. Both of those universities have very good psychology and neuroscience. As an upperclassman, she'll have a lot of opportunities available.</p>

<p>"if it is possible I'd see if she can hold off telling Smith til she sits in on a few CC classes."</p>

<p>I agree with this. It is usually possible to take a leave of absence from school. You may not even have to tell them what you're doing in the meantime. You can generally go back if you change your mind later. (As far as I know, my best friend, who has graduated from a different college, has been "on leave" from our first school for the last ten years.)</p>

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<p>I went to Smith back in the day and remember that most girls had single rooms from sophomore year on. (I lived in Chapin House, though, and had a double sophomore year). While I never had any issues with making good friends at Smith, I can see how having a single could cause a student to feel isolated if she did not have an established set of friends by sophomore year. </p>

<p>Smith does have a wonderful junior year abroad program as you know. But another idea, which I took advantage of, was the Twelve College Exchange Program where she could take a full junior year away at one of the participating colleges. There are some very fine schools on that list. I took my junior year at Dartmouth which gave me the experience of attending a
co-ed Ivy League college for a year (back then it was 3 guys to every girl too!). I would caution, though, that I experienced some shock at how much tougher it was to make all new friends as a junior. Most upperclassmen already had their groups of friends formed and it took some work for me to meet them. (I had no problem meeting new freshmen however!) My first term at Dartmouth was not as happy as I had hoped for. Still, as I look back it was a great experience for me. I went back to Smith for my senior year and got my degree from there. Just a thought.</p>

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<p>jdasmom's suggestion reminded me that Smith is part of the Five College Consortium. Without going anywhere different (or after going away for year and just returning for senior year) she has free bus shuttle access to Amherst, Mt. Holyoke, Univ. of Massachusetts and Hampshire College for courses or extracurricular activities. I don't know if it would make her any happier, but if she were to become active in one or two evening activites on a different campus, it might change her perspective positively. My kids did a lot of theater (Amherst) and there were always students from the other 4 colleges participating, either as actors or backstage crew. Look up theater audition dates on the theater dept. website of each college. I'm sure there are many other such activities, lasting a few weeks apiece, that have entry points throughout the academic year.</p>

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<p>1down22go</p>

<p>Hi, I know you are probably really frustrated right now and doesn't understand why you daughter is not iking Smith, even though everything at Smith sounds almost perfect. I can see where you daughter is coming from. I myself is a first year student and I recently just put in two transfer applications to elsewhere. I do agree that Smith has great academics and great professors and good alumn connections and such, but if your daughter is not happy here socially, she's not going to be happy here even with all the good things that Smith provides for her. Smith can feel really suffociating at times. While some people love the small college environment, others think its too small. I don't know what kind of environment your daughter likes, but I love being in the cities, and northampton just makes me feel trapped most of the time. I was so sad that I been crying on the phone to my sister the past two weekends. </p>

<p>Now I think your daughter really needs your help, because I just did all the application and finanical stuff on my own since my parents don't speak English, and it was so difficult. I can't really ask my parents advices on anything since they really don't know much. So I think your daughter is so lucky that you are able to help her, and I think you should help her too, because transferring process is stressful and scarey. I think if your daughter is willing to put in all the effort to go through application process again, then there is seriously something she is not enjoying at Smith. </p>

<p>I am sorry if I sounded rule or offensive, I didn't mean it that way if I did. You know, I am also a sicence major, if your daughter wants to talk, we can get together sometimes and do that. Hope this helps.</p>