? St paul’s brooks or governor’s? ADHD

My brilliant son has mild ADHD. We are wondering if it is better to send him to one of the less rigorous schools that he loves and was admitted to or to St. Paul’s where he wants to go to but which is farther away and more rigorous.

We worry that he might be overwhelmed and in the end go to a less prestigious college after and have a miserable life at sps. Alternatively he could go to a school he can fully handle and might be at the top end of the admitted kids in terms of skills and test scores.

He is very bright and can be spectacularly successful but stamina is a struggle if the workload is particularly tedious or is many many hours. He is used to a very rigorous school and has 2-3 h a night. I just am not sure he can handle much more.

I want him to be successful and happy and care more about where he goes to college than what prep school he goes to first.

Also does anyone know how adhd medication is handled at boarding school? I currently give him his (very small) dose daily and have no worry about abuse but hope that a housemaster or nurse would administer as I just don’t want it to be stolen or for others to ask to borrow as a study aid.

I was part of a parent GT coordinator committee back when son was young. Being “doubly gifted” as one parent said does happen. Another thing I learned was that sometimes gifted kids can be thought to have ADD or ADHD. Be sure you have researched the differences and the diagnosis is correct. My brother was diagnosed with ADHD back in the '60’s so when a teacher thought my gifted son might have ADD it was a possibility- the same school psychologist who tested him for early entry to kindergarten did those tests when he was in first grade. Nope, just maturity levels in dealing with boredom. Your son takes medication so I assume the workup was done and it helps.

You state your son is “brilliant”. I assume he is gifted. This means he needs to have his academic needs met. An appropriate education for him, like for all kids, needs to be done. This means more rigor. You state he wants to go to the more rigorous school- he is likely to be less bored there and more willing to do the work. Being intellectually stimulated means a lot for willingness to do the work to get the top grades.

Forget that business about going to a “prestigious” college. Most gifted kids do not go to HYPMS (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT or Stanford) or other most prestigious schools. There are rigorous Honors programs at many flagship public U’s (and students who go got perfect test scores will have the rigor they need). Those students will be well prepared for prestigious grad school positions (the best schools for those depend on the field).

Your public schools must not be very good if you think he needs to go to a prep/boarding school. I’ll bet you are on the east coast. Your son seems to be in favor of the more rigorous option- let him be less bored and he’ll perform better. He’ll fit in better with kids closer to his academic abilities as well.

He has a better chance of doing well when he is in the HS that challenges him rather than makes him slack off from boredom. Be sure when college time comes you know more about the best fit colleges, rather than the ones you can brag to friends about, are considered if you truly want him to be “successful and happy”.

Go for it. Your son wants to. Worst case is not that he transfers after a year but that he is so bored he underperforms and does not get a good knowledge base and study skills for college.

I’m a current student at a prestigious New England boarding prep school (top ten nationally, depending on where you look). SPS, Brooks, and Governor’s are all really great schools and it’s impressive gaining admission to all three. I have several friends at SPS and one at Brooks. I can say that at St. Paul’s everyone is challenged and pushed. It is almost a guarantee that at St. Paul’s he will have easily 5-6 hours of homework a night. If he is looking to be at the top his class at Brooks or Governors he will also have a large amount of homework each night. I know St. Paul’s is especially rigorous with very little support for students and many students at SPS can’t keep up with the workload without having a learning disorder. Governor’s and Brooks are also extremely good schools with stellar programs and not easy by any measure. It is much easier for a student to take on harder classes and more responsibility at a Governor’s or Brooks than have to struggle and take lower level classes at a school like St. Paul’s. The glow of a name like St. Paul’s may be alluring to your son, but if more than 3-4 hours of work a night St. Paul’s may not be the school for him. He seems very bright and if he excels at Brooks or Governor’s he will get into a top college no problem! Having a four miserable years at SPS and the possibly of doing poorly is possible, especially with a learning disability. Still, you know him better than I do. You will make the right choice for your family.

Our daughter will be graduating from one of the ISL schools this year so we are very familiar with the schools on your list. SPS is not in the league but we do have a bit of contact with them as well. My own thoughts are to worry more about the right fit for him than college at this point. If he chooses the school he feels fits him best he will be happier there and do better, rather than being forced to go somewhere and be miserable. They are all good schools and if he succeeds at any of them, he will have many choices for college but he is not even in HS yet. One step at a time.

Thank you. I really only worry about homework volume and long term projects that have no chunking deadlines as he seems to have created good scaffolding for overcoming other challenges.

My point about college is just that it is more important than high school as far as I am concerned, and many of the kids/families I know including relatives who have sent kids to PA have had experiences where their kids were overwhelmed and frankly went in to mediocre colleges.

I hear that they are not well adjusted. I have less experience c SPS and do not know if it is any more nurturing.

In our neighborhood the public school grads went on to better colleges than the PA kids.

That said public school was not s happy place for my child before and we took him out and he loved his new environment.

We want him to thrive not just survive

Did he gravitate towards one of those schools? Did one of them seem to garner his interest the most? And if after the choice has been made and it then doesn’t seem to fit, he can always look to transfer into one of the others. I would talk to the schools about what accommodations they might have for him as well and also about fit. Get the names of parents from the schools that will discuss the school with you. Ask to talk to guidance counselors and/or teachers. Do all the due diligence you can to find the right fit. If he is in the right place, the college piece will work itself out.

I’m sure you were open with the schools about your son’s ADHD during the application cycle, and those schools admitted him because they thought he would be a good fit for their communities, and you have revisit days coming up where you can have very open and honest discussions with each school regarding your concerns. The schools admitted him to thrive and not just survive and have supports in place to help him get the best from his experience at any one of them. Also, these schools are in the business of finding the best college match for each student. A college you might think of as “mediocre” might be the perfect home for your son as well as other brilliant students. Your child has no guarantee of any particular college outcome from any high school, public or private, and the boarding schools loudly shout that they are all about providing stellar high school educations, not college results. My opinion is that when the high school education is strong, college will take care of itself. You’re putting the cart before the horse.

As for how meds are handled, this will be spelled out clearly in each school’s handbook, but you can also inquire during revisit days. Some require students to come to the health center, some will administer at the dining hall at meal times, but all schools have policies and procedures for handling prescription drugs.

Again, each of these schools will provide the best answers to your questions.

I would NOT assume that Governor’s is any less rigorous.

However, you probably CAN assume that the teachers there are more experienced with teaching kids with a broader range of ability-levels and learning styles and ALL kids benefit from having teachers with that experience and skill.

I am in the “thrive not survive” boat wth you! My son was doing very well at public school and tests off the charts there, but it was not a happy experience. We do not live close enough to New England to consider those schools, but we are attending a mid-Atlantic school. I would look into what type of learning support the schools offer. The school my child will be attending has a Learning center and will use his testing to help him be successful at school with study skills, time management, etc. I think the trickiest part will be the social aspect and I feared that a cut-throat, competitive environment would not be a “happy” social environment. Does he make friends easily?

I would contact the health center at each school to find out how they deal with distributing controlled substances. I didn’t want my son to have to trek to the end of campus everyday to get his and the system at the school we’ve chosen makes it easy, doesn’t stigmatize it and also focuses on compliance!

OP, none of those schools on your list is better/worse than others, it is more of a fit. Since you have a special need, you should consider where your son will get the best education.

It isn’t 1940, when the head of school would call Harvard or Princeton and get your kid in. Kids need to work at each and every BS. Also, kids need to learn to be people. They need to learn to find out what they like and what makes them tick. If you read closely on this board, most parents send their kids to BS for an education, not a college acceptance.

Some of the schools which have higher admissions rates might have a selection of kids who are going there due to various reasons. If your kid is going to BS, they are getting 3-5 hours of homework per night. There are many gifted ( test taking kids who score 95+) at every boarding school. But they are not all going to do well. Some also work hard and some do not. My kid took the SAT first time no prep and got 99% ( perfect score in math). That doesn’t mean a darn thing. Kid still has to write essays, pass in homework and study. ( I think there are a high number of high achievers at all BS’s).

In fact, I think many kids who are gifted or highly gifted have a hard time with executive function skills and not having good study skills. This can impact performance more than anything else.

Let your kid find out what school feels best for him. If my kid had an ADHD issue, I’d talk with lots of staff and maybe even another family in a similar situation. I would also consider if BS is the best fit. If it is, then great. But I’d have a good plan in place to figure out how my child would thrive in a situation where there is little parental involvement on a day to day basis.

I always recommend looking at the college matriculations lists and thinking about whether the schools in the bottom half or middle 50% might be good matches for for your child 4 years down the road. (The top 75% is likely to be filled with legacies, development admits, and recruited athletes, as well as a few superstar students.) The college list can tell you a little bit about what kinds of colleges a school’s population intuitively gravitates toward after 3 or 4 years at that school. More large schools or LACs? Most schools in the area or across the country?

It’s nowhere near a perfect metric, but it’s another data point.

https://www.brooksschool.org/academics/college-counseling/matriculation
https://www.thegovernorsacademy.org/page.cfm?p=393
https://www.sps.edu/about-sps/sps-facts
(Unfortunately, SPS shows only the most attended schools)

@mothere: I am concerned about your definition of what constitutes a “prestigious college” (which you mentioned in your other thread) and a “mediocre college”.

I developed a rating & ranking list of the nation’s most elite prep boarding schools & a few select day prep schools (such as Roxbury Latin & Atlanta’s Westminster Schools) for college placement. St. Paul’s School & Phillips Academy at Andover tied for best (most prestigious) college placement.

Did your son receive special testing accommodation for the SSAT ? If so, then avoid SPS, PA, Exeter & Groton, in my opinion. If not, did he score above the 90% ? If yes, then SPS is still a reasonable choice.

A first time poster on CC posted on this thread alleging that SPS students have 5 to 6 hours of homework per night, yet this was not a student at St. Paul’s. The more accurate figure is three to four hours a night, although some students do more.

P.S. Attending SPS as a Fourth Former (9th grader) is a one year, not a four year, commitment. The risk is that if your son passes up this opportunity to attend SPS and finds out that he needs to be challenged more, than the opportunity will have passed.

Has anyone ever met a Governor’s student who complaiined that the work was way too easy?

Or a hiring manager who cared more about where someone went to college than how they absolutely kicked butt at their last two jobs?

Or an admissions committee member at a prestigious grad school who did NOT prefer a superstar from a lesser-known school over a merely average Ivy Leaguer?

No?

Me neither…

Thank you for your thoughts. I am not sure how to approach parents etc. and frankly his adhd diagnosis is private and no one who did not need to know was aware at his prior school that is why I am using this anonymous forum.

I will go to the visit day and will likely call the health center but would love love love to hear from another parent of a kid c adhd regarding how it went.

This is s kid c nearly perfect math and perfect verbal scores and who is very talented in the classroom and is a terrific writer, years ahead in math, reaching himself physics and coding, is a encyclopedia of European history BUT when he gets a long term project or many hours of homework he loses focus and also will turn in rough drafts because he runs out of time. He is not efficient with tasks that bore him and not a kid who cares about grades particularly. He does beautifully c the harkness method and loves the group discussions. He is very intellectual and a great reader.

This translates into great success with moderate volume and inconsistent success when he has a lot of homework as he prioritizes the interesting work as well as sleep. He is “growing out of” a lot of hisinefficiency, but is still less conscientious than some of his peers with similar scores. He is not a box checker or a “walking application” as he described some other kids in his class. He is happy and fun and curious and we want him to continue to be all of this…

It is stamina and efficiency with high volume of work and long term projects that are hardest for him- much harder than for my other kids without adhd.s

Sounds like executive function issues. Go to revisits and see where he’ll find the most scaffolding and support so he can develop those time management and study skills.

You might also want to think about what else you value re: your child’s HS years, beyond academic preparation. For example (and I know many parents disagree with me) I don’t want my kid to spend every waking hour studying and doing homework. I want her to find a balance, have fun, engage socially, and develop softer skills like EQ, which can’t be done if one spends all of one’s time studying.

One thing about matriculation lists is, they often reflect a particular cohort of students. There is a school near us with an AMAZING matriculation list. But if you factor in that many of the parents are Ivy leaguers and very wealthy and the school tends to also focus more than others on sports the list can be seen in a different light. And every BS we looked at had kids going to the very tippity top schools ( if that’s your goal in 9th grade, hmm). @Publisher probably has a great list from Boston Latin and Philips but one has to consider these kids have already been chosen from a very small number of acceptances into these high schools. Then when you filter this list through the college acceptance process, it really changes the perspective.

I went to one of the best “name” schools for college and it helped in the job market. But it did not fill in for areas where I lacked nor did it make me a student I wasn’t. As a high schooler and also early in college, I struggled in early until my work habit met my abilities. Still working on it even as an adult. Strong test scores do not correlate to strong grades at these schools. It’s so much more.

Kids do things differently these days. There are more long term writing assignments and projects with others. I think the school can give you a great sense of how they handle things.
And don’t be fooled ( as I was) into thinking there aren’t a lot of gifted kids at these schools. Applicants are the top of every school system in America and beyond and those that are picked at in the top 10-20% of that pool. So your kid would be among peers. My perfect scoring math kid is in the top 1/3 but far behind many kids from Asia who are light years ahead of Americans in STEM. These schools are filled with math, athletic, arts and more. The students excel, often in many areas. That is why it is so hard to get in. A kid who is #1 in something. Not that uncommon at many schools.

Have you thought of asking the school if there is a parent ( maybe involved on the school board) who has an ADHD student and could answer questions?

I’m the parent of a kid with high functioning autism and ADHD who attends Exeter. A couple of things:

  1. Schools all handle medication differently. There was a recent thread about this, which might be worth reading, but the best thing to do is call the health center of each school and ask.
  2. Support for executive function skills also varies widely across schools. Some schools - including Exeter - have full time staff for academic/learning support. Some have entire teams/centers dedicated to supporting students. Again, the best thing to do is to ask the school directly about the formal and informal supports they offer, from study halls to tutoring (peer or professional) to study skills classes, etc, etc.
  3. The most important factor in succeeding in any environment with ADHD is your child’s ability to self-advocate. I can’t stress this enough: if your child cannot recognize when they need help and speak up for themselves, no amount of institutional support, relative ease of work, or inherent brilliance will help. If your child is not comfortable doing this, you can either spend the next few months helping him develop this skill, or re-think your plans for any boarding school or college.
  4. Attend revisit days and really dig deep. It was at the revisit days that our choice was made clear, in part because of conversations we had with teachers, support professionals and other students.
  5. Schools like these are filled with kids who are as brilliant - or more! - than your child. If your primary concern is about college, and not about the potential for intellectual and personal growth that these environments offer, again, you may want to re-think boarding school.

Finally: we made the conscious decision to support our son’s choice of Exeter because we figured that if he were going to fall flat on his face and fail - for whatever reason, but most likely due to his extremely poor executive function skills - we wanted it to be in 9th grade, not as a college freshman. His first year at Exeter has certainly been a mixed bag, but given the number of things he does in addition to classes (3 sports, musical instrument, multiple activities/clubs with significant time commitments), he’s doing far better than we had expected. He is flourishing in an environment where he’s challenged every day, in many ways, and has grown so much. Is he learning that school is what you make of it, and what you get out of it is directly proportional to what you put in? Absolutely.

You are right. I am speaking from experience I have with several friends who attend SPS. You can have less than 5-6 hours per night at SPS, like 3-4, but the more advanced and rigorous classes that Ivies and many other top colleges are looking for take more than 3-4 hours a night especially after freshman year. Still, it is possible to have less homework taking less advanced classes.

Thank you for all the great comments and thoughts. In particular the momof3nyc comments are helpful. I share the goal for him to figure this out now rather than later when stakes are higher.

My son has never had any accommodations. I am looking for the same things every parent looks for in terms of usual supports nothing more, but really wanted facts about usual workloads and whether anyone c a child at sps who lived happily ever after despite some mild executive function challenges. That said, I appreciate the suggestion to investigate at the visit day the support options that exist as they might be useful.

I really appreciate the information and concur re QOL. I am a physician who sees a lot of adolescents who are overwhelmed with life. A lot of mental health has to do with feeling some control and having ebbs and flows of busyness. At present my son is such a happy soul and has no measurable depression or anxiety (as per the extensive testing we did as part of adhd workup). We want him to be happy and to succeed. I know there will be highs and lows but hope to choose the right fit.

When I mention the college issue I just want him to not have such an overwhelming situation that he is handicapped in terms of next steps. My sister had to take a year off of college after getting so behind she was embarrassed and stopped going to her classes. I know that excelling within a context is more likely to foster the opportunities of leadership and growth that overall make for a “successful” high school experience. For my child 5 hours in 9th grade would be too much. Maybe that much in junior year would feel different especially if he chooses to take classes he loves in subjects he cares about.

I am assured that executive function and stamina increase with age and maturation and am seeing dramatic growth year to year.

My real concern is as was spelled out above. We want some time beyond schoolwork to just be a kid. A PA parent I know told me that her daughter was getting a great education at the price of a childhood. This is not a reasonable price in my opinion.

My sense is that there is plenty of quality of life as well as academics in high school at brooks and Govs and I know in fact that kids c adhd are excelling there. I know no one at St. Paul’s and wonder if it is more like PA or Brooks. My sense is it may have more baseline work and more high pressure.

@mothere wants facts about usual workloads at SPS, not hearsay. Here is a fact: No 9th grader has a 5-6 hours a work per night, no matter what classes they’re taking. Period. The school doesn’t drop kids in the deep end to see if they can sink or swim. There is a sustained focus on overall well-being - physical, mental, emotional, and social - and a whole network of people (your adviser, your head of house, your dorm advisers, your prefects, your teachers, and the health center counselors) to ensure that no one falls through.

At the beginning of the school year, your child’s advisor will ask you about any concerns that you may have or things they need to watch for. I shared that my kid is a procrastinator, so for the entire first semester her advisor checked on her nightly about homework, going to bed on time, using a planner, and scheduling for long-term projects. My kid is not an academic superstar, just a regular kid somewhere in the middle of the pack, but has always taken 6 classes instead of 5 because she also takes music, leaving her without a free block on most days. Below are her responses to a few of her adviser’s questions in the winter of 9th grade:

Q: How has your academic experience been so far at SPS?
• Your homework load is… A: Not that bad usually. If I am good about looking ahead it is much more manageable.

• When do you normally complete your homework? A: I usually start when the school day ends. Most of the time I am done by check. I like to go to bed early and not worry about having more homework to finish in the morning.

• How academically challenging do you find your classes? A: It is the right amount of challenge for me. It is very manageable.
• Is this year turning out to be what you expected in terms of classes and classwork? A: I honestly thought it would be way worse. I find that it is not the amount of work, it is how I handle it. The more I can look ahead and get ahead the better I feel.

As you make decisions, my advice is to be very forthcoming about any concerns and limitations regarding your child and to seek answers directly from the source (do talk to key people at the school - call the health center and discuss your concerns with every teacher you meet at revisit day). Also, follow your child’s lead when it comes to which school he feels best about. Best wishes!