Stressed out junior D equals stressed out parents

Parents Forum
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<p>This is my first time post here, although I have been reading for several months now. I have a daughter and son. My d is in 11th grade (and the reason why I’m making this post) and my son is in 12th and will be attending NC State next year. </p>

<p>Where to start, where to start. With my s, the college admissions process was a breeze. He knew where he wanted to go and want he wanted to do (although I’m sure it will change within the next year or so) and he had the grades to get him there. He only applied to one school (NCSU) and was accepted EA. While this is not a strategy I would recommend to anyone as it can be risky, it worked for him and is happily looking forward to the fall. My d however is a different story entirely.</p>

<p>She isn’t really sure about what she wants to do, and is extremely worried about to college applications… to the point where she is making her mother and I worried. In my (admittedly biased) opinion, she is a lovely applicant that stands a chance a most colleges. She however is not so positive.</p>

<p>She has a variety of interests and is good in most of her subjects. She loves Spanish and has made A’s in it every single year (5 now), and has received the Spanish award since starting Spanish 1. However, although she wants to minor it, it is not something she is interested in as a major (something I’m glad of as I’m not sure how many jobs you can get with just a Spanish major). She also shows a strong interest in Politics, and scored a 5 on her AP gov’t exam last year. She’s talked about pursuing a degree in Political science and then perhaps going to law school, but I cannot picture my daughter as a lawyer. She is a very quiet child, who mostly keeps to herself. She also loves computers, and is a rather good programmer. This is personally what I wish she would pursue. She as always been advanced in math and it seems like it would be a good fit for it – we had to buy her own computer just so we could get near this one. There are so many jobs available in Computer related fields and then the fact that she’s female I just think gives her a slight edge. I feel the same way about any kind of engineering (what I majored in and something she has looked at), but she just isn’t sure. One of her other main loves is music, specifically the piano. She started playing when she was 4 years old and although she is not the best at it, she has won many competitions, and competed and placed in many more. She and I both worry about the practicability of pursuing something like this as a major however. She has toyed with the idea of looking into a double major so she could combined something more math/science with a political science, music, or literature degree, but as I said it’s all up in the air now.</p>

<p>Right now she is looking at William and Mary, UVA, UMich, NCSU, NYU, and as a probable reach- Swarthmore.</p>

<p>And although I am trying to be as supportive as possible, I will admit that I would rather see her take a math/science route. Are any other parents out there currently in this situation? If so, what colleges are you considering? Or if you’ve been in this situation before, what college did they choose to go too? Any input you have would be greatly appreciated… as we are getting ready to start planning our first round of college visits. Oh joy. If everything keeps going the way it is now, I think I'll be completely bald to come September.</p>

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<p>ncsu1987, welcome. I don't think we have enough data to make specific recommendations but I sense that that may not be what you are looking for and maybe in that way I can help. </p>

<p>My D is a very good math/science student also, good enough to where I started worrying over the last few weeks that we might be approaching this search all wrong. I went to her AB CALC teacher and asked whether or not D needed to be at a school that had no limits on how far or how technical she wanted to take this math/science thing. Or was it advisable for her to attend a small LAC or uni where her options in math/science may be more limited in scope (no neuroscience,etc.) but that provided her with a greater opportunity to search through a variety of disciplines before settling on a major field? (What I actually said was more like -does she need to go to a big brain in the jar school that was highly advanced, highly technical to meet what she will need for some sense of satiation ?).</p>

<p>His response was wonderful. He praised the kid then said-"she needs to bump into some wall (bio) and careen off it only to bump into some other wall (chem) and then another wall (history) and that only by this process of bumping into these walls would she ever find her path-whatever that is or will be. It may be math , it may be chem but it might be medieval lit .There is no way many kids could know at 17. To put her in a school that only allows her to follow a particular path would be a mistake."</p>

<p>Made some sense to me. All of the schools you named will keep all of your D's options open.</p>

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<p>The whole college application process is such a huge monster, it really is overwhelming when looked at as a whole. The trick is to break it down into smaller pieces that you can wrap your hands around. Then she can set about knocking off those smaller chunks.</p>

<p>She may want to fill out a college application in pencil this summer (if can even be one from last year, they don't change much). It will give her an idea what sort of info she needs on a college app, what kind of essays she'll need to write, etc.</p>

<p>Thinking about applications in the abstract can be fear-producing; seeing one application in black and white can make her feel comfortable that she can do this.</p>

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<p>I like curmudge's endorsement of your D's current list because it "keeps all of her options open."</p>

<p>Being married to an engineer, I feel affectionately familiar with some of your worries. H's policy has always been that S should major in
[quote]
absolutely whatever he wants to, whatever kind of engineering that is ;)

[/quote]
S happens to currently think that engineering is what he wants; but we all three agreed (!) that S should consider only schools that "had it all," so that if he had a change of mind or heart, he would not be out in the cold. He is going to Tulane and considered Lehigh, Lafayette, JHU, Hofstra, Santa Clara, Stanford, Villanova, Trinity. There are many, many others.</p>

<p>I think your D will be well-served if she keeps on considering these balanced Arts&Sciences/Engineering program schools.</p>

<p>A few other random thoughts:<br>
-just because she is quiet doesn't necessarily mean she couldn't go into the law. They're not all Perry Masons and Law&Order - there's corporate law, public interest law, being on-staff counsel in any number of settings etc.
-for your parental stress reduction, I prescribe "Accept My Kid, Please: A Father's Descent into College Application Hell." Please read asap and call me in the morning.
-for D's stress reduction, I'm not sure: maybe the college visits will get her into the more fun part of experiencing different settings, seeing what she likes. I'm guessing that the best thing for her stress is to make it feel more like this process is all about her choices and less like it's out of her control. Not sure of how to achieve that, but spending time looking for colleges she might enjoy, based on size/feel/location/architectural style/climate..., making sure to include several where her stats make her a comfortable "sure bet", "likely," "50/50 chance" and limited time on finding her "reaches" might help.</p>

<p>PS I'm thinking there will be a lot of jobs that meld an interest in the law with an interest in computers. Intellectual property issues on the internet, legal staff of computer firm...... (I, of course, know nothing about any of this, but it just seems like it would have to be...)</p>

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<p>I appreciate your story/advice. That reasoning is why we are really focusing on the larger state schools (with the exception of Swarthmore of course).</p>

<p>I am not quite sure what I’m looking for by posting this to be honest. One of the main reasons is to know I’m not the only parent out there ready to pull my hair out and it’s not even September yet, but I am looking for school names too I suppose. I’d hate for her to miss out her “dream” school, which is why we’re trying to keep all of our options open – at least at this stage.</p>

<p>If specific stats help, then here they are:</p>

<p>Female
Resident of Virginia
9th out of 294 kids in her High School.
4.0 unweighted I believe (or a 3.9 something), no idea what it is weighted.
1460 on old SAT, she hasn’t taken the new one yet.
She got the letter about National Merit… I believe she’ll be semi-finalist come September. Her selection index was high.
IB Kid. She’s taking 2 of her exams this week (Pysch and Math Methods) and think’s she’ll get at least a 5 (out of 7) on each.
5 on AP Gov’t Exam. She’s took Physics this week I believe, or is taking it next week.
EC’s:
She loves Drama, and has been in every single play since middle schools.
Member of Drama Club and ITS.
Member of the Debate Club.
President of Spanish Club.
Member of Robotics Club, and they placed 4th in State Competition for their robot.
Does the Forensic Team at school and placed (2nd, 2nd in Fresh and Soph years and 1st this year in Serious Poetry at the county level. And then 3rd in Serious Poetry at State level.)
Piano lessons, since she was 4.
And she tutors in Spanish.
Awards:
Won Spanish Award for her year, since 7th grade… and we’re assuming she’ll win it this year.
Won PreCalculus Award last year, and Algebra 2 award the year before that.
Won an award from William and Mary’s women alumni or something like that. I forget exactly what it was called, I’d have to ask her and she’s not home. It was something about honoring girls that are doing well, ect.
Won at least 15 piano competitions, and placed in many others. She’s competed in over 100 at this time. And I know of at least 3 others that are fast approaching.</p>

<p>That’s all I can think of off the top of my head… I don’t know if that would help in school’s that might be good for her.</p>

<p>That’s a good suggestion Ellemenope, thank you. I hadn’t thought about doing that, but it certainly might take some of the edge off for her if she realizes it’s not quite so scary.</p>

<p>jmmom, :) my wife tells me the same thing about her interest in law. And you're both right I'm sure. I just cannot picture my daughter as a lawyer. Perhaps that's because my current boss is a lawyer and she's a bit... "over the top" for me. I haven't looked at many of the schools on your sons list outside of JHU and Tulane, although I think I might now (I'm pushing engineering... although I think my d is getting annoyed with me about it. It was my major (electrical).). I'll definitely be writing down the book title, it sounds exactly how I'm feeling haha.</p>

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<p>ncsu - Does she like the idea of the larger state schools? Because there are many smaller universities that would fit the bill. And some "LACs" are a bit of a misnomer as, for example, Swarthmore is ranked in the top 10 undergraduate engineering programs in my (now out of date copy of) USN&WR.</p>

<p>If you post some of the non-academic elements of what she'd like in a college, some of our most knowledgeable posters will make specific suggestions. Does she want: urban/rural... Greek heavy/light/none... etc.</p>

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<p>I would also consider how easy it is to switch majors. One drawback of a larger state school may be that it is more difficult double major or pursue interested in two seemingly unrelated fields.</p>

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<p>She would prefer to be in a smaller school I believe, like Swarthmore. She is very shy and has a hard time meeting new people, which is our big reservation about State School's... but at the same time we don't want her to be stuck transfering if she changes her mind about what she wants to do.</p>

<p>She is would prefer urban over very rural, but doesn't have a problem rural schools. She just wants to be in a place that has stuff to do, and at the very least a good mall close by. Greek probably light, I can't see her pledging, but if she wanted to it would be nice to have the option. She's look for a school with a music department, so she doesn't have to give up the piano totally, and a nice drama department too. She just has a huge variety of interests. I know she would be willing to look at "LACs" if they would flexiblility. Her guidance counselor advised against LACs (and Swarthmore for that matter), and is pushing schools like UVA. My wife and I just really want her to go somewhere that she'll be happy at... that preferably has a good engineering or computer department.</p>

<p>Ahh that's a good point about state schools. I do not know much about the difficulties of double majoring myself, and I really should look more into it now that she has expressed at least an interest in looking into it. I know with some state school's like NCSU offer honors programs that make it easier to double major. I don't know if it's the same with most state school's however. I get the feeling I will be spending a lot of time researching over these next few months.</p>

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<p>Is money at all a consideration?</p>

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<p>No, money isn't an issue.</p>

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<p>A problem with big state schools is that it can be difficult to switch majors. Also, the upper-level (meaning smaller) classes are often reserved for majors, leaving students who want to take classes in many areas stuck with taking HUGE survey classes - which usually are not as interesting or interactive as the smaller- upper-level classes. So even though there may be more options available at Big U's, they aren't readily available to all students. IMHO a smaller U or LAC would definitely be a better choice for your shy daughter who wants to be involved in many things. Also, I would avoid asking your daughter to even think about choosing a major... it is too overwhelming for a 17-year-old to have to think about committing to something like that. Instead, talk with her about areas she's like to be involved in.. (looks like you already have a list), and find schools that can support those activities.</p>

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<p>Ncsu, Welcome to CC and to the college search journey. Where to start indeed! The balance of optimism and pessimism that you and your wife are experiencing is not only normal, but healthy. My advice to everyone, aim high, but love thy safety. If it sounds contradictory it’s because it is.</p>

<p>I’m a parent of a Williams sophomore and I am also a graduate of the University of Michigan. When my son was looking at colleges several years ago I vacillated greatly on my advice to him – big or small. I received a fine education at Michigan and I’d give my right arm for the chance to do it again. However. . . it wasn’t the right place for the person I was at 17 years and, I think, it wouldn’t have been the right place for my son two years ago. Because of my son’s experience at Williams, I’ve become a diehard LAC convert and proselytizer. For me, a smart but painfully introverted teenager, Michigan was a tantalizing mismatch. Tantalizing because it offered SO MUCH. Mismatch because I lacked the aggression and assertiveness to take advantage of it. </p>

<p>At LACs kids seldom get lost in the shuffle. Professors are readily accessible, friendly and basically there for the student. They may be experts in their fields, authors, researchers, etc., but they are teachers first. They care about connecting with their students. An example, despite being very interested in the subject matter, my son turned in a mediocre paper. Rather than just giving him a mediocre grade the professor tracked him down and asked him to talk about it, rewrite, and resubmit. No way this would have happened at Michigan. </p>

<p>I think it’s a bit premature to be worrying about your daughter’s ultimate career path (though I agree with those that say quiet people can make killer attorneys!). It sounds like your daughter has a whole kitchen sink full of interests which is exactly what a liberal arts education is all about. She may not make up her mind about which road to take for several years, and this is okay. Right now I would keep researching and visit as many colleges as you can. Once she finds a few that feel right the issue of the major and life goals will fall into place. </p>

<p>(Since I never pass up an opportunity to plug Williams, I’d say the LAC environment plus strengths in math/science/political science/music/drama make it an appealing consideration. No engineering degree, per se, but compensates in other ways.)</p>

<p>This is a positively brilliant comment from Curmudgeon’s daughter’s teacher. That’s exactly the way I’d describe the education that my son is experiencing: ideas are ricocheting around his brain with alarming intensity. Religion to Art History to History to Literature to Philosophy to Physics to Astronomy to Religion. . .</p>

<p>


</p>

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<p>ncsu - Welcome to the stressed out parents board! Don't worry once they’re in college you'll still find plenty of things to stress out about. </p>

<p>I think it’s great when kids enter college not knowing exactly what they want to do – they are more open to all that a school can offer. There are so many subjects offered in college that aren’t available to most high school students that I’m surprised any 17 year old would know their major before sampling a year of college.</p>

<p>I found the best way for a student to know if a school is “right “for them is to visit and spend at least a day on the campus. My oldest had no idea what he wanted in a college before he visited a few. The visits also changed his mind about what’s important in a school. Don’t’ forget to pay attention to the social scene as well. A big school can become more intimate if a student is able to find a group of friends in their dorm or join an activity that provides a social outlet.</p>

<p>Good Luck! you’ve already come to the best place for advice and information.</p>

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<p>Have you done any college visits with her yet where she gets to talk one-on-one with an admissions rep? Especially at smaller and less selective schools, the admissions reps are usually AMAZING at getting kids to feel comfortable and reassured about the application process. Maybe if your daughter sees that there are going to be real (and nice) people reading her applications, she'll feel a tad less nervous.</p>

<p>But, I'd also suggest you start with a few schools that are going to be safe bets for her in terms of admissions. Having an admissions counselor or two at ANY school say "You'd be a good candidate" can work wonders. At least, it has for my daughter.</p>

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<p>A student has to chose a school that has a strong program in what they are interested in studying, but the kind of school where your D is likely to be accepted can probably be good at everything. Her stats would enable her to apply anywhere. </p>

<p>Some of the discussion seems to be between LAC's and large public universities. You might want to look at an intermediate choice such as a medium size private university. Some LAC's might not be strong in all areas. Large public universities might be too large for her since you said that she was looking for smaller schools. The medium size universities include any of the Ivy League schools, Duke, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, UVA, WUSTL, Tufts, Emory, Vanderbilt, and a lot more. I would check out the US and News Report listing of top National Universities just for a list, and then look up specific schools in the Princeton Review List of Top 357 Schools. The Top 357 Schools guide provides info on the personality of the school, campus life, and other factors. Rather than a small LAC that might not be strong in her eventual major or a large public U with 20000 undergrads, she might be happy at a medium size private U with 4000-6000 students and a faculty-student ratio under 10:1. I second the suggestion that you try out some college visits. It is useful to go to different colleges even if you have no real interest in them, but just to see different kinds of schools. A visit to the Univ of Maryland would give a good idea of a large public school while a visit to Johns Hopkins would give a good idea of a medium sized university.</p>

<p>I believe that UVA has to accept 70% in-state students by law so it is significantly easier to get into for in-state students. UCLA and Berkley are also like that. </p>

<p>Congratuations to your D on her accomplishments. She might consider a double major or a minor or both.</p>

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<p>Congratulations on making it through your S's college application process with such ease! Sounds like your daughter is far more typical of most students out there--not altogether sure what she wants in the way of a career path and college. That's why visiting several different types will be very helpful.</p>

<p>Your D's stats and EC's look very good--she's obviously been working hard, and getting involved. Just so you know, the cutoff selection index for National Merit semi-finalist in VA this past year was 219. It won't necessarily be the same number this year, but it gives you an idea as to what it has been. If you live in Northern Virginia, the state universities are a bit tougher on admissions, particularly with girls (in 2003 60% of the applicants at UVA, and close to that at W&M, were girls--the schools try to keep their ratios as close to 50/50 as they can, so girls have it tougher lately!). Also, there is no mandated percentage of in-state students. In the most recent years UVA has taken at least 1/3 from out-of-state--hardly fair to the tax-payers of Virginia who get shut out! </p>

<p>Those are just some rough facts about the Virginia schools. William and Mary probably has more of a LAC feel to it, but no engineering programs. </p>

<p>Good luck with your visits--your D will let you know what schools "feel" right when you make the rounds. If she knows students who are at any of the colleges she is interested in, she should try to schedule an overnight during a fall visit--that is so helpful for many kids!</p>

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<p>I think it especially important for kids who are stressed by the app process to apply very early to a rolling admission safety school. One early acceptance can do wonders in relieving stress and building self esteem. She will then have much more confidence when completing her other apps.</p>

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<p>I'll jump in an offer a suggestion - Muhlenberg. It has a fabulous performing arts program (drama, dance & music) and you don't have to be a major to take those classes. You don't even have to take the classes to audition for productions. And I understand that its math/science and history programs are very well regarded. It's small and no one gets lost.</p>

<p>At this point, I wouldn't put too much stock in computer-related jobs - so many of them are being shipped overseas.</p>

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<p>ncsu - a couple more thoughts. </p>

<p>You may be thinking (as I was) that with a shy girl, overnight visits will be hard. S is not exactly what I would call shy, but he is not a social self-starter - relies on his close friends to invite him to things, arrange get-togethters, etc. So I was worried about him finding a social comfort at college, and even as I say, handling an overnight with a stranger. I watched him BLOSSOM when he did two nights at Tulane (he had already chosen it). He just fit right in, and I never saw him the whole two days, except when he came to my hotel to nap while his host was in class for a 4-hour stretch. It was just what I wanted - so (I'm projecting of course, but..) if you are at all hesitant about the overnights many are recommending, don't be.</p>

<p>Also, I'm sure you must be aware of the Honors College options at so many big state Us. These make the large-anonymous more like a LAC when they work well. There has been a thread/threads talking about what works and evaluating some of the programs.</p>

<p>Finally, I've been intrigued by your comment that D's GC is against LACs and for large state U's for your D. Could you elaborate? Just wondering if it's poor guidance or if she sees something we haven't addressed yet. It sounds like crazy advice to me, but maybe there's more to it.</p>

<p><a href="I'm%20pushing%20engineering...%20although%20I%20think%20my%20d%20is%20getting%20annoyed%20with%20me%20about%20it.%20It%20was%20my%20major%20(electrical).">quote=ncsu1987</a>.

[/quote]
Do they put something in the water they feed you EEs? H is one too, and as I said, right where you are in pushing the major. I think you guys need some sort of 12-step support group. :rolleyes:</p>

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<p>ncsu1987 -
There is a great book that can help your daughter get a feel of what career path matches her personality. It is called "Do What You Are" by Paul D. Tieger & Barbara Barron-Tieger. The authors explain the Myers-Briggs personality type indicator and why certain occupations are popular for each personality type. Not only did this information help my daughter in the college selection process, it helped her focus on EC's that were useful on her college application. Although her career is certainly not set in stone, in her applications she presented a picture of a person with direction, which (I think) helped her to get accepted to every school she applied to (even her reaches).</p>