2 of my son’s friends were not outstanding students and neither made it to AP Calc in an academic private HS. Both started in civil engineering at Cal Poly because it was what their parents wanted. Sorry to say neither made it through because of grades and had to transfer. One is now a policeman (very happy) and one is in construction management, also very happy.
Since changing majors is very difficult at Cal Poly, it’s best to have a backup plan just in case.
My son had the same situation. In middle and high school he was often accelerated because of his easy grasp of math concepts, but he was out of his league in advanced classes. He took calculus as an undergraduate humanities major because it was a prerequisite for many architecture master’s programs. He scraped by, but it was a miserable experience.
I echo ucbalumnus’s post #2. There are many colleges that offer engineering. A student who may or may not be able to get into MIT or Cal Tech will still have plenty of options of other universities at which he can study and do well enough to become an engineer. Your son’s scores and grades are strong and well above national averages. You can support his career goal by helping him find universities with civil engineering majors where his scores will be average or well above average for admitted students, as opposed to looking only at the most elite universities where his scores would be below average.
I agree let him figure it out. The engineering curriculum pretty much dives right in during freshman year at any ABET college and he will know if he wants to continue on. I worried about my 3rd but his drive and will for CE was strong and he is finishing up his degree this year. He took it slow and steady.
Interestingly he has 3 other friends at other unis in CE and through the years listening to conversations at Christmas and summers they all take basically the same classes year after year so find a school he will be happy at. The tech colleges have tangential majors to CE if he wants to stay in construction but decides he doesn’t like the CE curriculum
Encourage him to take advantage of the tutoring and study groups from the start to keep from getting bowled over. He should build going to available support into his schedule. Some students are reluctant to get help until it is too late.
He will need to figure out how to deal with his dislike of taking timed math tests and doing math problems fast. A common complaint from my engineering student son is how quickly you need to move through the math and engineering tests. My interpretation has been that they are looking for you to show you have the foundation material down cold and working quickly through the problems does that - but I could be wrong.
^^^agree with poster above, get in study groups at the get to and develop the habit early on of going to office hours. Generally take advantage of all the help out there well before getting in trouble. Much easier to say to a student than get them to do!
A plan B option might be to look into schools that offer engineering and engineering technology programs. A few schools such as RIT, Purdue, & University of Dayton offer both. ( I’m sure there are many more too). if engineering curriculum is too much they may want to change to engineering technologies.
FWIW, my son just finished all of his critical tracking math requirements at UF in the engineering program (he is a CS major though), and did fine (mostly A’s). Math was his lowest sub-score on the ACT which surprised me a little because it was the subject he studied the most - formally, with teachers - as a home-educated student.
You might be worrying prematurely.
A student who is even considering a major in engineering should start in engineering because it’s a major with strict, sequential requirements starting in freshman year. If your son decides that engineering is not for him, there’s a very good chance that he can switch to a different major and still finish in 8 semesters. But if he started in something else, regretted it, and then wanted to switch into engineering, it would be very difficult to do it without extra semesters.
For what it’s worth, I was concerned about my son’s decision to major in computer science because he, like your son, was not exceptionally strong in math. It turned out fine. He graduated with honors, got a master’s degree, and now earns his living as a developer. So what do I know?
I was always good at Math. I got an A in BC Calculus and ended up with only a 2 on the exam. I did always feel I was only just grasping the material. I ended up at an Ivy and retook Calculus as a sophomore (three years later since I’d had a gap year). I couldn’t believe how easy it was, I took it self-paced and breezed through with an easy A, finishing the final exam before the bathroom break half way through the time. I was asked if I’d like to correct homework the next year which I did. I ended up in architecture, but I’m pretty sure I’d have done fine in engineering. I loved the engineering courses I took in architecture school.
BTW my math kid (he was reading math theory for fun in fifth grade and programming since 2nd grade) always got higher scores on the CR part of the SAT. He always managed to make one or two stupid mistakes in the math. The curve is brutal. You miss a “not” and poof you’ve lost 30 or 40 points.
Don’t forget, the SAT tests math concepts he took in 8th and 9th grade. It is a harder test for kids junior year who are on an accelerated math program unless they have been spending time staying current with the SAT math questions.
I got a 690 on the math SAT and ended up graduating with high honors in civil engineering. I received a full fellowship to graduate school, too.
I got a 4 on the AP Calculus test but took the class in college at the recommendation of a college prof. I’m glad I did - it really reinforced my skills before I took the more advanced math classes.
SAT math is based on algebra 1, geometry, and maybe some algebra 2. These are normally* 9th to 10th (maybe some 11th) grade math courses, though accelerated-in-math students may have taken those math courses starting in 8th or even 7th grade.
*In the context of overall student populations, not the small percentage trying to get into super-selective colleges. Indeed, this whole thread seems to be a case of where a parent of a good-but-not-elite student may be worried because all of the postings about elite students make a good-but-not-elite student look worse than he actually is. It does seem a bit odd that a good-but-not-elite student in math was apparently +2 accelerated to reach calculus in 11th grade.
Thanks all for talking me off the ledge. To be clear, my son is not shooting for elite engineering schools, and my concern is not that he will fail to get admitted to elite schools. Cal Poly is top notch, and that’s his ‘reach’ school, but the other schools he’s looking at are Washington State, UofWyoming, and possibly Davis (@ucbalumnus, that asee link was useful – interesting to see that he’s comfortably in the middle of Davis’s SAT math scores).
As for accelerating 2x, his math courses were Alg. 1 in 8th grade, Geometry in 9th, Alg 2/Trig Honors in 10th, and Calc AB in 11th. This really isn’t that unusual a course progression in his school. He got an A+ in Geometry (because regular was too easy) and a B in Alg 2/Trig, which is par for the course – reg. math too easy, accel. math hard.
DO NOT STRSSS YOURSELF. His math test scores are fine for good engineering programs at top tier schools. He may not be as competitive as a math major at top schools but that is not what he wants. btw- those who pass the first AP calculus (the only one many schools offer) exam usually start with first semester calculus at top tier schools because their math offers much more in a course. Therefore no big deal if he “repeats” it in the college he goes to. HS calculus will prepare him for the college level. He likely should study for any SAT math tests- my son did not claiming they were reviewing the precalc material in calc class, sigh. He got an honors math degree from a top 15 or so math grad program university (he added the comp sci major and works in that industry).
Relax and forget about any worries. It is far to early for him to finalize his major- that comes after a year or more of college courses and experiences. Let your son follow his interests. He sounds hands on as opposed to my theory loving son. Engineering sounds like a great fit since he does well in math and wants the field.
It sounds like you should be encouraging him in this. Remember, we need thousands of good engineers, he doesn’t need to be at the top to be competent and employable. Oh, and you are comparing his math scores to future mathematicians, not the majority of engineers.
The only reason for you to try to encourage him in a different field is if he does much better in others and shows more interest. I told my HS Econ (no AP in my day) teacher I was choosing chemistry when he suggested his subject- did well in it but did not enjoy it that much. Likewise I chose chemistry over biology majors since it was more challenging (and in my day a biological science of any kind was not what is today).
Re #33
What seems odd about the math sequence is that it is missing a year, or has the usual 4 years of high school math compressed into 3 years. The usual sequence is (starting in 9th grade for normal track students; starting in 8th grade for +1 accelerated students)
Algebra 1
Geometry
Algebra 2
Trigonometry and precalculus
Calculus (in college for normal track students; in 12th grade for +1 accelerated students)
I wondered the same thing ucbalumnus. What you’ve spelled out was “normal” for our school system. Seniors that started in middle school either took Statistics or AP Calc senior year or took Calc one of the area colleges. I think the OPs son is chugging along just fine and will cross the commitment to engineering bridge probably end of freshman year in college.
One of our kids never took calculus in high school…at. all. Somehow she manGed to get her bachelors degree in engineering.
She was NOT accelerated in math…at all. We were the first familynto decline that offer in the history of the HS. My husband, an engineer, just felt that a very firm foundation in math was more important that accelerating. He also took calculus in college, and felt taking it there was a wise choice.
Like I said…kid managed to get a degree in engineering…highest math course in HS was precalculus.
@ucbalumnus That order you laid out is the second track at our school. My daughter is on that track but she decided not to take Calc next year and is taking AP Stats instead.
My third did not take Calc in high school. Tested into Calc 1 in the uni math placement test and went from there. It isn’t that rare. The only benefit he saw with college friends who started in Calc 2 was the 4 credits that were then available for any retakes or a non-engineering class and still stick with the degree flow chart. We just supported the 4.5 year plan to give him breathing room.