Student Suspension at Duke

<p>My D started at Duke this fall and learned of a sophomore friend who got suspended from Duke for low grades. He was asked to sit out this semester and possibly be allowed to return next semester for a re-do. What terrible news! I feel the pain for the student and family. He was enrolled in BME and premed. </p>

<p>Number one question is how can this happen, with professors, faculty advisors and fellow peers so available?</p>

<p>Secondly, does anyone know what Duke's policy is on maintaining a minimum GPA to avert a suspension or expulsion? (or any other top school?)</p>

<p>We don't know all the details, since there may be other extenuating circumstances besides low grades. However, a little insight into this issue would be helpful. Thanks.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I have a few friends with kids at Duke and I hear that it’s really hard. There are all kinds of kids who sail through school without ever having to study. They get super high SATs with zero prep at all. (My Son has such a friend - he was no. 3 in the class…my son said, “He’d be no. 1, but he’s so lazy.”) If one of those students encounters classes that are challenging even to those with great study habits, he might not make it.</p>

<p>“… how can this happen, with professors, faculty advisors and fellow peers so available?”</p>

<p>I can provide a few possibilities:
(1) Parents don’t see grade reports anymore
(2) Harder courses beginning sophomore year (e.g., Organic Chemistry)
(3) Fewer tests (e.g., perhaps just two … midterm and final)
(4) A botched semester-long project.
(5) Student fails to report a medical condition that impacts academics.
(6) Academic advisors work on “by student request” basis
(7) The traditional “college boy” culprits: parties, drugs, alcohol, etc.</p>

<p>New Hope - you forgot the most important item - not going to class. </p>

<p>It is really difficult not to at least pass at a place like Duke if one goes to class. </p>

<p>And in my experience, Duke likely counseled this kid repeatedly. It takes real effort to be suspended.</p>

<p>Lots of schools have rules about minimum GPA and many require you to sit it out and even to reapply. </p>

<p>I would suggest your D’s acquaintance is likely not a good pre-med candidate.</p>

<p>(8) Under estimates the amount of time required to do the assigned reading and homework, doesn’t do any supplemental reading or optional homework
(9) Procrastinates
(10) Erroneously thinks they can catch up a whole semester’s before the final
(11) Chooses to skip classes and recitations
(12) Weekend partying starts Thursday night.
(13) Still hungover Sunday evening</p>

<p>Colleges don’t typically suspend students for academic issues without a semseter of warnings and/or probation first.</p>

<p>How did it happen? Most likely frequent binge drinking and/or some other form of partying. A student really working and failing will typically get picked up by the support systems.</p>

<p>This is VERY common, even though you won’t see it reported much on these forums! I know a number of kids who were put on academic probation and then either suspended or kicked out from all levels of schools- state universities on up to Ivys. Engineering is a particular a$%-kicker and I know some very bright and successful high school students who wound up with below 2.0 GPA after freshman year in state school engineering programs. College takes a different level of attention to academics and a lot of self-motivation and structure.</p>

<p>Engineering is fairly difficult most places, and I don’t know of any reason why Duke would be an exception to that. In most places (my university included), in engineering, math, and hard science courses, the combination of going to every class and trying really hard does not necessarily guarantee that a student will pass.</p>

<p>Welcome to the Big Leagues! Just because one does well enough in high school to get into Duke doesn’t mean they get an academic free pass! Not to be rude, but the sense of entitlement is sometimes overwhelming!</p>

<p>Our state requires four years of math, science, social studies and English in order to graduate from high school. There aren’t a lot of slots in summer school classes, so most of the teachers have to grade so that almost everyone passes each of these classes. Way too many problems would be created if more than a few students failed required courses. But in college, no such problem…a student washes out a Duke or University of Texas…there are multiple students in line to take his place.</p>

<p>Re #7</p>

<p>Good Grief. Yup, I am sure it is binge drinking!! :rolleyes:</p>

<p>I am glad to see that there are some who never give up.</p>

<p>Lots of straight A high school students at Duke struggle. Believe it or not, they are not all binge drinkers!!!</p>

<p>The academics are very challenging, particularly for an engineering/premed student. Time management skills are critical.</p>

<p>my son just graduated from Duke…I asked him if anyone he knew “didn’t make it out” and he could only think of one of his friends who couldn’t muster what it took to stay above a 3.0…Most of his friends hung tough.
Strong SATs and good grades are not enough, as others have stated. Maturity is a huge factor in BME and in most depts at Duke (and peer colleges all over the country). There are ways to get help but you have to ask for it in time…this is hard to figure out for some. My own son dropped a course he was going to make a bad grade in once…and he said he simply had not realized how to study hard enough to stay in the AB range yet. This required him to man up, make an apt with his teacher and his academic dean (a complete stranger)…and he did have a health issue at the time as well…mono. However, admitting defeat and the need for a do-over is part of maturity.</p>

<p>In high school he got 30% of his scores from simply showing up and doing his homework and raising his hand. He was too immature at 18.5 to realize that every quiz was do or die. He was mistaken when he thought he could “make up for an off day” on the next quiz or test since there are few venues for recovery. By fall sophomore year, he was in study groups and stepped up his game. He is very auditory, and he never missed a class or a lecture. Duke is a hard school for those whose attentions wander. Also when 25% of your class had a perfect math SAT, you have to factor in that a significant number of your peers were not even remotely measured by SAT scores re math ability. This is hard to recognize till you get into Engineering classes and see that some people are blessed with math ability far beyond SAT levels and that students are randomly gifted in different ways. Takes a lot of maturity to accept this and find what it takes to stay in the game. My son took his lumps now and then and I am proud of him for admiring his more gifted friends who were often his front line tutors.</p>

<p>I was actually rather stunned at the maturity and career goals of his peers since he arrived from a rather backwater place and a high school with a 50% drop out rate. Many of his classmates had laser goals and were just ready to roll.</p>

<p>sleep hygiene is also a huge issue in my view for this generation…they are so wired up that they are zapped and trying to move mountains in classwork on way too few REM hours of sleep…this was also one of the maturity issues my son overcame…respect for sleep…keeping a body clock that included daylight and breakfast daily…</p>

<p>
[QUOTE=Faline2]

sleep hygiene is also a huge issue in my view for this generation…they are so wired up that they are zapped and trying to move mountains in classwork on way too few REM hours of sleep…this was also one of the maturity issues my son overcame…respect for sleep…keeping a body clock that included daylight and breakfast daily…

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So true! Study in the afternoon and evening, sleep at night seems to be so elemental, but evidentally isn’t.</p>

<p>There are always a few kids that just can’t do it at age 18. Most colleges warn for a semester and if there isn’t a huge change in grades then they are suspended. Some colleges will drag (probation) out and give the kids two semesters to turn it around but to the OP, it happens, everywhere…the reasons are myriad but generally not going to class, not doing the work and too much social activities lead the top of the “reason heap” It’s possible that some kid got into a college that is “too tough”, but I rather doubt that excuse, a major that is too tough is a more believable excuse. I do not believe there are many colleges/unis that don’t have a “minimum GPA” requirement either connected to the total courseload or the major.</p>

<p>As others have said, this is not unusual. Every college has a policy which allows for academic probation and eventual suspension/expulsion if the student doesn’t improve his/her gpa. I’ve never heard of a school that does not go through at least one semester of probation, though, so there’s probably more to the story of this friend than you’re hearing. </p>

<p>It can certainly happen without partying being the cause. The daughter of a friend was placed on academic probation at an Ivy after freshman year. This was an incredibly bright young woman who got involved with an abusive boyfriend and her academics were affected. By the time the parents discovered what was going on, and were able to get her some help, the year was over. She had one semester of probation to start her sophomore year and turned things around very well.</p>

<p>There have been threads in which we heard of people who ran into this problem because of video/computer game obsessions.
I agree that anything that keeps the student from going to class is highly likely to bring about this sad result.</p>

<p>Since all of us parents are so committed to seeing our children succeed, it’s quite a shock to know of a student suspended, but not know of the reasons why. I’m hoping our friend and his parents can overcome this difficulty and move on with their lives. </p>

<p>Thank you all for your insightful comments.</p>

<p>^ An update from your friend may be helpful to others as well. I am sure that as your friend moves on, they will share more information with you.</p>

<p>I have an acquaintance who entered his Senior year at Yale. Unknown issues drove him to start skipping classes and he fell out of the face of the earth it seems. He’d stay up all hours playing video games and reading comic books. After 3 1/2 years of working at Yale, he didn’t graduate with us and, to this day, still hasn’t completed his degree. Really a shame.</p>

<p>It happens.</p>