<p>Anybody kwno about Sumac? the stanford math program
if it was fun/enjoyable, how hard it is to get in, just anything
thanks</p>
<p>my friend went and she enjoyed it.</p>
<p>I went. It was a LOT of fun. You can take either number theory or topology, I took topology, really interesting stuff. About 33% of applicants are accepted. There are about 40 students, half rising juniors half rising seniors, I was a rising senior. Of the other rising seniors when I was there I think about 8 applied early to Stanford and got in... I know there are now a couple at MIT, Harvard, Yale, Brown, etc. Great experience, I highly recommend it!</p>
<p>It differs from Summer College in that it's more structured, and the SuMAC folks don't leave campus, have curfews, etc, I think.</p>
<p>how's the reserach part of it? i read that you have to come up with your own project with a group of students?</p>
<p>i've never done research, and i can't imagine what math reserach would be like. is it in anyway stressful?</p>
<p>SUMaC is great, I highly recommend it.
It was a <em>lot</em> of fun, you immediately fall into Stanford and math at the same time :)
The research thing is no big problem - you are part of one of four (I think) groups. You then choose a subtopic and have a presentation of about 10 minutes. Usual topics are cryptography, coding theory, wallpaper patterns, unsolvability, etc.
So in general, SUMaC = awesome (!)</p>
<p>I went to SUMaC (Program I) and also highly recommend it. I had so much fun and made some really good friends that I'm still in touch with. The research part was not stressful at all. You get a lot of guidance in selecting a topic. I went not really knowing how to do basic proofs, but I sure do now, after the daily one on one sessions that everyone has with their RAs. You receive class instruction every day for 4 (?) hours and then, aside from meal time and daily activities, you could potentially use the rest of your time to work on problem sets. People don't though, and there is plenty to do. You asked about dorming on another thread. Everyone has a roommate or, in some cases, two. My roommate was from China, which is another great thing about SUMaC. It attracts students from around the world (like the poster above me!). It was so much fun, and if given the chance, you should definitely go!</p>
<p>Which year did you two go to SUMaC? </p>
<p>You have class for 2 hours (9-11), then lunch, then work on problem sets, go over old ones with a TA/RA, then often have some sort of afternoon lecture for fun, dinner, then more problem sets and/or just hanging out. You can really only spend maybe 5 hours/day on problem sets anyway so you do end up with a good deal of free time. </p>
<p>In theory you could wander off campus, but there really isn't much reason to. Each weekend we go on some sort of field trip around the Bay Area. I think we did have curfew, or at least hall hours. </p>
<p>You really do get a chance to meet some really incredible people and make some good friends. I made one really good friend in particular who is still one of my closest friends in the world even though we haven't seen each other since SUMaC.</p>
<p>went in 2005. haha, no idea where I got the 4 hours.</p>
<p>Curfew? pssh.
The sweet part about sumac is the freedom and the kids around you. there's so much diversity and energy (i guess pretty much like stanford) that even doing the problem sets are fun. class doesnt seem like 2 hours (and the breaks kept getting longer) and the four weeks go by really really quickly. really. There's only about 30-35 students in teh camp and last year the girl/boy ratio was like 15/17. Rick does a good job picking people. Everyone is really compatible, and the fact that its a small group makes the camp that much better. It's a closeknit group of kiddies. i wholeheartedly recommend sumac to anybody wanting to go to math camp. it's a little bit expensive, but if you look around hard enough you'll find scholarships and such. i found two different scholarships (one local, one national (the Mu Alpha Theta one)) that amounted to 3000. sumac wouldve definitely been worth it either way though. i can't really say how hard it is to get in, because it probably varies each year. like this year, there isnt a thread about it on AoPS so it might be less competitive. who knows. the deadline for the applicaiton is in a couple days isnt it. so if you have anymore questions just ask, and a bunch of us will answer.</p>
<p>random question</p>
<p>but is everyone there really genius?
is ap calc bc looked down upon as remedial course?</p>
<p>I'm pretty sure AP Calc BC is not viewed as a remedial course.</p>
<p>That said, you will quite possibly meet students at SuMAC (as well as at PROMYS, Canda/USA MathCamp, Ross, etc.) who have taken AP Calc BC when they were in the 8th or 9th grade. </p>
<p>Don't worry. Many students are exceptional at problem solving (i.e. AMC/AIME/USAMO type problems) while they haven't had calculus in the 8th or 9th grade. That is, if you get in, there's obviously a reason for you to get in! Don't worry about your peers. Rather, try to be inspired or grow from your interaction with them. </p>
<p>BTW, I went to PROMYS 2004, so I can answer any specific questions about PROMYS if you're interested.</p>
<p>yes i was thinking of applying to PROMYS
is it less competitive because there are more students there? how's life there?<br>
do you get to EVER learn curriculum material (multivariable, linear alg, differential eqs)</p>
<p>or is it always those differnet ones... (topology, crytography, creative stuff...)</p>
<p>that last question goes for SUMAC too if anyone knows?</p>
<p>SUMaC has just number theory and topology, both really interesting topics.</p>
<p>I actually really can't comment on how competitive PROMYS is. I don't have any knowledge of that. However, I can tell you that the admissions is rolling..which means the later you turn in your application, the more problems they expect you to solve (and the stronger your application should be). Definitely attempt all problems, and make sure you solve at least 6 correctly (to your knowledge). </p>
<p>If you find any of the application problems especially hard, attempt just as well. If you have no clue how to solve a problem, but you can make some advances, talk in detail about your thought process behind the problem solving. Cite sources if you use any, too.</p>
<p>PROMYS is sooo awesome. One of the reasons why I picked PROMYS over SuMAC and MathCamp was its location: Boston! There's just SOOO much to do and see in Boston. A lot of the activities within Boston aren't planned, but you'll easily make friends who share the same passions and interests as you do, and you can treck all over Boston and Cambridge with 'em. I have fond memories just chilling around the Commons, Beacon Hill, Harvard Square...riding the T all over the city. It's great spending 6 weeks in a city like Boston! </p>
<p>Curfew on weekends is 12 am..but people generally stay up till ungodly hours within the dorm building. I remember people would play board games and Mafia until 7 am without any sleep! </p>
<p>Every Friday, you do a little silly activity with everyone. There was stuff like "Game Night", Talent Show, Ice cream social, Movie Night (you don't watch normal movies of course. you watch stuff like "Normal Homotopies in the Plane") and a dance. The Talent show is the highlight of those friday nights. You get to see everyone's non-mathematical talents showcased. People put on awesome skits, parodies, Rcube competitions, recite pi out to 500 digits, recite the periodic table, read literature, perform songs, play piano, etc. </p>
<p>Since you'll be a first year at PROMYS, you'll take the number theory class. However, the way you learn EVERYTHING at PROMYS isn't the way you're used to in school. You'll essentially explore the math on your own: conjecturing propositions about number theory like Euler and Gauss did so many years ago. You'll actually come up with the theorems and results yourself!</p>
<p>You can, however, take the more advanced classes that returning students take. These classes vary each year, but while I was at PROMYS, they included: Combinatorics, Geometry and Symmetry, Graph Theory, and Computer Graphics. While the names of these courses make them sound really simple, they're not at all. For stuff like Geometry and Symmetry, you'll be thrown head-first into material sophomores and juniors see in college: group theory, algebraic geometry, differential geometry, non-euclidean geometry, projective geometry, etc. These classes, as I said before, are approached the same way as I explained above.</p>
<p>For whatever classes you take, you complete problem sets which are due to your counselor the same night (usually..I think). However, most students are unable to finish all the problems on the PSets, but it's no big deal. You're not given a grade for any of the classes. You'll learn as much as you want to learn, and at your own pace. </p>
<p>In addition to all of that, you can also participate in an exploratory lab where you investigate research topics. This, I'd have to say for me, was the HIGHLIGHT of the PROMYS experience (in terms of math, I mean). You're put into groups of about 5 or so, and paired with a mentor. Your research continues throughout the program, and at the end, you write a paper in LaTeX and present your findings via power point. It's so awesome.</p>
<p>For returning students, they do harder, more involved, research labs. It's more rare for 1st years to participate in them than it is for 1st years to participate in the harder classes, but it still happens. The same essential process is followed for these research labs.</p>
<p>ADDITIONALLY, counselors LOVE to teach "mini courses". These talks are just 1 hour lectures on random days about random things. We had lectures ranging from Algebraic Topology to Ramsey Theory. These were a lot of fun too. </p>
<p>Finally, famous mathematicians and lecturers always pay visits to lecture on really cool things. We had a guy from Wolfram Research talk to us about mathematica and stuff. Another talked about how to prove Fermat's Last Theorem with polynomials rather than with integers. </p>
<p>So, to answer your question about learning "curriculum material", the kind of stuff you'll take away from PROMYS is worth SO much more than just the boring standard stuff like multivariate calculus (unless you're learning about calculus on manifolds or chains!), lin alg, and diff eqs. Of course, you can DEFINITELY request to learn about that stuff for mini courses if that's something you feel you must have.</p>
<p>In conclusion, go to PROMYS. It's just the obvious choice :)</p>
<p>i finished the admission exam, it was kinda tough
but i was wondering, there are going to be some people who ask their dads(math professors) or something for help won't they?</p>
<p>i mean is there a way to tell you solved it by yourself?
i spent lots of time on it, and i would feel cheated.</p>
<p>at suMac or promys, do they like give another exam to see if you're qualified?</p>
<p>jsut curious</p>
<p>i'm done with the admission exam, so just wondering..</p>
<p>No, there's no other exam really to determine who's qualified. </p>
<p>The applicant pool for PROMYS (and SuMAC) is pretty self-selecting. Applicants who apply tend to be very conscientious about academic morality. The people who end up at PROMYS definitely deserve to get in.</p>
<p>If you felt the exam was hard, follow my advice concerning approaching the harder problems. </p>
<p>BTW, how long did you spend on the exam? You might want to take more time to do the problems, because they're actually not too hard. It just takes time to work through them and see a solution. </p>
<p>I'm looking at the exam now. I'm guessing problems 6, 7, and 9 might be troubling you. For these problems, it would be wise to spend more time on these and try to come up with partial, if not complete, answers to these. For number 9, I would suggest doing your own background research on these types of numbers. PROMYS doesn't look down upon students who seek to understand the basics behind each problem (just cite your stuff). However, your answers must come completely from you.</p>
<p>yeah, and if you're still not sure you're right, at least explain everything you did. My friend said she thinks she got in just because she explained her entire process with much detail so they could see her thinking, even if it was a little off.</p>
<p>CONTRARY to what masamune said, SUMaC is not only for super geniuses. and there werent any kids there who took AP calc BC in 8th and 9th grade. I dont know why he's speaking about SUMaC when he's never been there and is only here to make this a competition for PROMYS, but really. there were only 2 USAMO qualifiers there. remember, a quarter of the entire group is foreign. Some have done olympiads, and like sneakypete, some have never done proofs before. it doesn't matter though, because you're there to learn, and by no means do you feel intimidated. its more of a humble feeling. you work together as a group and you learn as a group. it's not a competition</p>
<p>with regards to the application exam (SUMaC's, which is what i think he's talking about since he started the thread about sumac), i dont think anybody cheated on the exam. you can cite your sources. for a lot of people, several problems were complete guesses. Just try to work them out to your best, and if you cant go any further, write down what you have and explain your reasoning. Again, people at sumac work together, and working together means arriving at the answer together. itd be impossible to cheat and keep up with the course.</p>
<p>i'm not sure why masamune is here preaching about PROMYS, but they are both reputable and probably very good camps (i've never been to promys) so decide for yourself, if you are indeed applying to both camps. i can tell you though that all the things masamune mentioned as good qualities about PROMYS have similar/corresponding parts at SUMaC. There is a trip to San Franscisco and other locations like the beach and stuff. but i liked the isolation of the camp. it made us that much closer. dont worry about curfew at sumac. there's games and planned activites at SUMaC all the time. SUMaC math is algebraic topology and modern/abstract algebra. There's only two different groups, and they are not separate in any means except for classtime. we even worked in the same room when doing problemsets. There are no grades. There are research topics at SUMaC. WE had a guest speaker about twice a week including stanford professors and researchers.</p>
<p>And no. its not an obvious choice as masamune claims.</p>
<p>I actually talked to Rick for a while one day about how he selects students. Everyone there was just really interesting and I was wondering how he knew that ahead of time... he looks at a combo of your recs, essay question answers, and your solutions to the exam. You don't have to get all of the questions right. I think I wrote <em>something</em> for all the questions but I'd be surprised if I got more than half of it correct. So just try your best and don't worry if you can't get all the questions. Most of the students in the program probably didn't get it all right anyway. If you don't plan on taking BC calc until junior/senior year you won't be helplessly behind. On the other hand, if you are a super genius you won't be bored. (We had a couple of those... they ended up doing very advanced research projects which kept them entertained) It's a great program. Give it your best shot and if you still have trouble with some parts of some questions that's probably not a problem at all. Good luck!</p>