SUNY favortism of OSS must stop

Colleges and Universities A-Z Stony Brook University - SUNY
1

<p>SUNYs are apparently allowing in out of state students with lower SATs/GPAs than in-state, and giving them bargain tuition for out of state. In state people -- write your state legislature/governor and complain. The small out of state differentical pails in comparison to the 8.4 Billion in state funding. We pay some of the highest taxes in the country to educate kids from NJ and Conn. </p>

<p>Write now -- talk to your friends -- the OOS students are being mobilized by the sunys -- </p>

<p>In these difficult economic times, it is a disgrace that SUNY gives preference to out of state students and charges them below market tuition. While the tuition for out of state students is more than in-state (13k v. 7K, tuition only), it is still appreciable less than what most state universities charge. For example, Rutgers charges about 20K for tuition for instate students. To add insult to injury, out of state students are admitted to SUNYS with appreciably lower SATs and GPAs than instate students. This is unacceptable. This does not enhance any diversity – most of the out of state students are from states like New Jersey and Connecticut and are not appreciably different from New York students. I can understand that the SUNYs want to be more national, but in these terrible economic times, it is not the time to allow out of state students preference. </p>

<p>By giving preference to out of state students, the SUNYs are leaving New York residents with the choice of attending community colleges (even as is generally the case, the SATS and GPAS of in state applicants are higher than the out of state applicants admitted at these bargain rates to the 4 year SUNY colleges) or expensive private or out of state colleges (which charge out of state students much more than NY does). The benefit that the SUNY colleges receive from the out of state tuition is far far less than the burden New York state residents, including your constituents, bear to find another college. </p>

<p>Many other states’ universities are increasing out of state students in these difficult economic times, in order to increase tuition income. But other states are not giving away spots to out of state students at severely below market tuition rates. </p>

<p>Each SUNY now discloses the average SAT and GPA of admitted students. You should demand that this be disclosed separately, by each SUNY college, for in-state versus out of state students. You should also demand a summary of tuition rates for out of states students for nearby states, e.g. Pennsylvania, Connecticut. </p>

<p>Many SUNYs, including Purchase, routinely put out of state students ahead of instate for dorm rooms. Some SUNYs, I believe Oswego, have scholarships reserved for out of state students.</p>

<p>If the out of state students will not pay the market, then the in state students should have these spots. It is not enough to give SUNYs the power to charge out of state residents more, they have no incentive to bring fairness to the table – to them a student is a student. To you, some students are residents. Their response may very well be to charge the out of state student $15,000, again, below market, and to admit them with much lower SATs and GPAs. </p>

<p>I would suggest that in these difficult budget times, you tell the SUNYs that if they want New Jersey and Connecticut students, they look to the New Jersey and Connecticut legislature for funding and pay the state rent</p>

2

<p>Show me facts where the oss have lower gpas and sats</p>

3

<p>SUNYs wont release -- but from postings here it looks pretty clear to me. And the adcom people who post do not deny it</p>

<p>Call your state representatives and demand this be made public.</p>

<p>The bargain tuition is public knowlege -- NJ, PA and Conn, where a lot of OOS at Suny come form, charge NYers a lot more than we charge them.</p>

4

<p>I am an out of state student at Stony Brook. </p>

<p>Being that i went through the California system into the UC system and transfered out of state to SUNY stony brook i can tell you that there is a big huge difference between freshman admission and transfer admission statistics as well.</p>

<p>OSS do pay more, what is your problem? you want them to pay even MORE? </p>

<p>Tution at SUNY is 2x more expensive out of state than in state.</p>

<p>In california system to attend a california state university (not a UC) the tuition is 3.4 times that of state students. </p>

<p>I do not think that this is unfair ........ california is more expensive as a whole than NYC and you can not compare SUNY to UC, it more comprable to CSU.</p>

<p>connecticut schools- 7k insate 16 k out of state</p>

<p>State U of NJ- 11k in state , 21k OUt of state</p>

<p>What is your problem again</p>

5

<p>My daughter is OOS -- she was accepted with a 1450/1600, 4.0 Unweighted, 4.9+ W, AP Scholars with Honors...and will take a total of 8 AP credits. I doubt this was considered to be a lowering of academic standards for admission.</p>

<p>However, I definitely understand your point as some of the PA Public schools do the same for OOS. University of Pitt is very generous with merit money to OOS students. If my daughter chooses Binghamton it won't be because it's the least expensive as she has several scholarship offers from other schools that would make them about the same cost or much less than Binghamton's OOS costs. </p>

<p>Also when comparing to anything in Pennsylvania note that Temple, Penn State, and University of Pittsburgh are NOT state schools and are not part of the state university system. They are PUBLIC schools with independent charters and are somewhat state funded and definitely receive money from the state --- but are not run by the state. Yes, they are significantly more expensive for in state and out of state students than the state run schools. The state run schools do charge more for out of state but are still very inexpensive to OOS students so that PA residents are ABSOLUTELY also subsidizing OOS students. </p>

<p>Here is a link to the state system.
PASSHE</a> Fact Sheet</p>

<p>I guess my points are:
-NY is not unique in being generous to OOS students</p>

<p>-PA also has very reasonable state schools in the state system for in state and OOS -
[url=<a href="http://www.wcupa.edu/_information/afa/Fiscal/Bursar/BUR_Tuition.htm#OutofStateTuition%5DTuition"&gt;http://www.wcupa.edu/_information/afa/Fiscal/Bursar/BUR_Tuition.htm#OutofStateTuition]Tuition&lt;/a> and Fees - Bursar Office - West Chester University<a href="These%20schools,%20however,%20do%20not%20have%20the%20reputation%20of%20Binghamton.">/url</a></p>

<p>-My daughter absolutely had the scores and grades to get into Binghamton. </p>

<p>New York is not unique either in that EVERY state is in a state of economic crisis so while I don't agree with many of your points...especially, at least in my daughter's case, that academic admission standards are lowered for OOS students....I do agree that states may have to rethink their policies to subsidize Out of State students for both state run and public schools (Penn State, Temple and Pitt). My older daughter was a PA governor's school scholar after her junior year in PA and this may be cut in the budget. Lots of budget cuts are on the way in many areas in PA. These are tough times and all of the states will need to make some tough decisions.</p>

6

<p>I doubt there are that many OOS students that would actually want to go to any of the SUNYs...</p>

<p>And when asked for facts to back up your beliefs:</p>

<p>"SUNYs wont release -- but from postings here it looks pretty clear to me. And the adcom people who post do not deny it"</p>

7

<p>If you are upset because your child didn't get into Stoney Brook, that is one thing. It is difficult when disappointments affect your child. I don't think there is a preference for OOS's , but they do pay more than residents in most cases of state colleges and universities. This isn't something unique to SUNYs</p>

8

<p>My D didnt apply to SB. </p>

<p>As to Penn State not being a state U, even though it charges appreciabley more for OOS (and might I add apreciably more than SUNY SB charges for OOS), that is an interesting approach.</p>

<p>NY residents, please contact your politicans and demand that In-state students be treated fairly.</p>

<p>New</a> York State Assembly - Members</p>

<p><a href="http://www.senate.state.ny.us/senate...ators?OpenForm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.senate.state.ny.us/senate...ators?OpenForm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Governor</a> David A. Paterson Bio</p>

9

<p>Yikes - letter writing campaigns complaining against OOS being applicants being given unfair advantage over in state student acceptances! Ok...well this is something I definitely need to know. Is this representative -- is there is a general trend of hostility against OOS students? If so then I'm thinking that it might not be a good idea for my daughter to even consider attending Binghamton. Are OOS students welcome at Binghamton? What percentage of students are OOS?</p>

<p>My daughter has many other opportunities and some that are considerably cheaper than Binghamton. Is there a general tone of resentment against OOS students at Binghamton? This would definitely be something we would need to know before even visiting! Binghamton is definitely in her top 5 choices...she's waiting to hear from her top 2 choices. Also Stony Brook is high on her list. Are they unwelcoming to out of state students.</p>

10

<p>I can get a good education at a SUNY for next to nothing! It's hard choosing between a SUNY or my dream school though. The price is tempting though.</p>

11

<p>I guess it only "sucks" if there really is an air of resentment against OOS students. Is there? If that truly is the case then yes.....it would not be an option for my daughter to pursue. to pursue. I know that our public schools (especially University of Pitt) in PA offer lots of OOS scholarships....and I hope that the students are not treated with resentment by the other students. Yes the OOS tuition is good but it is most certainly not the cheapest school my D could attend.</p>

12

<p>as a suny alum and a suny parent i have finally felt that i need to speak up after following this issue on several different suny forums.</p>

<p>first off, let me start by saying, i can understand there being a concern a to whether oos students pay enough compared to what other states charge. i don't really know how i feel about this -- i don't think a huge jump at once would be fair. nor do i think oos students already at sunys should be burdened with huge increases that threaten their ability to remain at their schools. but i can understand a concern as to whether suny charges enough to oos students (quite honestly, instate tuition is also so low, i can see that being an issue also -- though as others have noted in other threads, increasing tuition makes no sense unless the sunys actually get to keep that money!)</p>

<p>second, i can understand why suny applicants would be concerned if oos applicants were getting a significant boost in terms of getting in with far lower gpa and sat scores. but the truth is, i've seen no evidence of this -- even in the anecedotal postings of oos applicants who've already gotten in. there is always a range - if a given oos is a the low end of range, who can really say that somehow proves a trend for all oos. and every college will give a bit of a boost to applicants they want to attract. and given how few oos there are at sunys, they are an under represented group. but again, i've seen no evidence that this is any different this year than prior years, or that it is truly significant.</p>

<p>when i attended suny there were few oos. sunys also had virtually no reputation out of the state. i attended a national law school and interviewed for jobs through out the country. i always had to explain not only what a "suny" was but what remote corner of nys my suny was located in. i think things have changed a lot. many of the sunys have more national reputations. and quite honestly, having more (though still few) oos students definitely helps this. if you are worried about the value that a suny diploma will have, you simply cannot ignore national reputation -- it affects the marketability of the graduates. accepting some oos, even if they have slightly lower stats helps build that reputation and helps attract more oos applicants which eventually can cause the stats of admitted oos to rise.</p>

<p>and this is not something unique to sunys. when my child was looking at schools several years ago, we looked at several public colleges in other states. at every one of them we were made to feel that an oos applicant was welcomed and desired. special scholarships were available for oos students.</p>

<p>the economy is causing a vast change on the college scene. both privates and publics are facing financial challenges. and the sunys have become much more popular. just a few years ago, most kids at my local hs viewed the sunys as something to apply to as a safety or somewhere those without financial resources went. well these days, more and more students who used to think they were too good for sunys are now finding that mom and dad can't afford privates and the sunys are seeing a surge in applications.</p>

<p>what i find sad and the reason i felt compelled to post, is that i think this is resulting in almost a panic among some in staters. and i think oos applicants are being made into a scape goat for that concern. the truth is that if an in stater can't get into a suny that they might have gotten into last year, they should look around their hs at the huge number of others applying to that suny to understand why that is the case -- not focus on the handful of oos applicants.</p>

<p>as i said at the beginning, i understand that some of the issues raised about oos may be legitimate. unfortunately, whether people realize it or not, some of the posts regarding those issues have come across as almost hostile to oos applicants -- certainly as evidenced by the poster concerned as to whether oos students are welcome on campus. i think as a practical matter, oos applicants here on cc are probably now afraid to post their stats or admissions decisions.</p>

<p>i urge people to realize that oos applicants here are just like the in state applicants -- teens concerned about their future, looking for support and advise here. if you want to debate an issue -- please try to remember to do so in a manner that doesn't make these students feel unwelcome.</p>

13

<p>I am not trying to make anyone a scapegoat, I am only urging people to contact their elected officials. Surely as taxpayers we are entitled to representives who will demand transparency and fairness. </p>

<p>As has been mentioned, this will likely be a year when many parents and students pick collegs with affordibilty a key issue. That may be a trend that continues. This will affect all Public Us, including SUNY. If the SUNYs want continued support for their budget, then they should be transparent and fair with taxpayers.</p>

<p>The real issue is not whether OOS will feel welcome, but will taxpayers demand change to the tuition policies.</p>

14

<p>kayf -- Just to be clear – while I used the word (in quotes because I was referring to another poster’s use of the word) I most certainly did not say anything "s**ks" for you and will assume you are referring to another poster. </p>

<p>We most certainly have different "Real" issues. As a taxpayer in PA I understand your concerns as PA also subsidies OOS students through their state system. I hope these students are made to feel welcome at our schools. My REAL issue, however, is most definitely whether or not my daughter should consider Binghamton as an OOS student. My question was whether or not there is general resentment towards OOS students at Binghamton. I will assume they will feel welcome!</p>

<p>unbelievablem -- Thanks for your reassurance. Binghamton is high on my D list...as is Stony Brook. We are, however, waiting for acceptances from 2 more schools that are also high on the list!!</p>

15

<p>I doubt any other students will make OOS feel uncomfortable. I do hope that taxpayers demand the end to bargains for OOS. </p>

<p>While it has been said that Penn State is not a state school, I find that somewhat disengenuous. It recieves state subsidies and charges more for OOS. If other flagships charge 20K for OOS, so should Binghampton and SB.</p>

16

<p>I have no problem with SUNYs increasing their tuition charge for OOS students....so long as the SUNYs are able to keep the tuition increase. Right now 90% of the tuition increases imposed on both in-state and OOS students is going into that black hole known as the General Fund. This is the fund that pays for everything from prisons and highway maintenance to parks and welfare programs. Not to mention double-digit raises for politically connected functionaries in the Governor's office. This is the real crime, not the fact that SUNYs have opened their doors to qualified students who happened to go to high school in another state.</p>

<p>My only question is, if the SUNYs were able to raise the OOS tuition to $20,000 or so, would ANY OOS students want to apply? Even at what I agree are bargain basement rates, SUNYs do not appear to be a very popular choice with non-NYS students. One would think that if SUNY Binghamton really had an open door policy for out-of-state "B" students with 1020 SAT scores (as has been alleged on the Binghamton board) then the percentage of OOS students at Binghamton would be more like 35% rather than the <10% it currently attracts.</p>

17

<p>You have to statistics. </p>

<p>Basing things from what you read on college confidential is just ridiculous. </p>

<p>I am out of state and i get NOTHING from NY state funding. </p>

<p>Worry about something else.</p>

18

<p>That is why I am urging NY people to contact their local reps and demand transparency -- so no guessing. Why would the SUNYs object if they have nothing to hide --the combination of below market tuition and issues re admissions standards should be out in the open</p>

19

<p>I am at a loss to understand how someone who describes himself as from out of state says he/she gets nothing from NY state. I assume this person is attending a SUNY. Do the out of state people not realize that the OOS tuition, even without any scholarships (some of which, hard to believe, are reserved for OOS) is a bargain?</p>

20

<p>Kay why such hostility and bitterness towards OOS. You have been obsessing on this for days in numerous threads. We get it, you arent happy with SUNY and want everyone to write letters.</p>