<p>From the NY Times, citing historical lack of spending and low tuition in SUNY system:</p>
<p>Did you notice that the graphic presents raw numbers (spending per state), rather than numbers corrected for the differences in the populations of the two states (spending per student or per person in each state)?</p>
<p>Obviously, the person who put together the graph and thought that it presented meaningful data must have gone to a SUNY. ;)</p>
<p>While money and academic mediocrity may be the most important considerations, part of the problem with SUNY is that the people who put together the SUNY system deliberately decided not to have a flagship university and not to pursue the top levels in intercollegiate sports. So you just don't see the kind of local enthusiasm about the SUNY schools as you do for most other state universities.</p>
<p>It is no accident that a remarkably high proportion of the out-of-state students at other state universities in the East are from New York.</p>
<p>I would agree with the article. An interesting thing about SUNY is that its cost of around $17,000 for in-state is about what other students at neighboring states pay instate, BUT the out of state costs are much lower; someone from another state attending SUNY would pay about $20,000, but $34,000 to attend UConn OOS. At least that's how I calculate it. Doesn't seem fair to New Yorkers.</p>
<p>As someone who will barely qualify for financial aid at private or public, I am strongly in favor of saving $33,000 a year by sending my kids to SUNYS; I wish the state would invest more.</p>
<p>One of the absurdities of the SUNY system from my perspective is the system-wide mandate on tuition. It costs the same $4,350 per year to attend SUNY Binghamton or Geneseo as it does to attend Morrisville or Old Westbury. For that matter, a year's tuition at a community college is only $1,000 less that the going rate at Binghamton.</p>
<p>hudsonvalley51- Are the Morrisvile students subsidizing the facilities and faculty salaries at Binghamton? Or does each campus have a self-contained budget?</p>
<p>I hate to say this but I have to agree. The SUNY's are in a desperate state. This seems kind of shallow but some of the 4 years are so off the radar they don't even merit their own CC forums. Last weekend visiting SUNY Potsdam I was amazed at how rundown things were. Most of what I saw looked like it hadn't been updated since the 70's. A shame as Potsdam is supposed to be considered one of the preeminent SUNY's for teaching and music. I would assume that the state of Potsdam is not indicative of all the SUNY's although I have had occasion to visit several of the other SUNY's and can say of them it appears that there are issues to be addressed across the board.</p>
<p>While SUNY does not have a Berkeley in its midst, not by far, both Geneseo and Binghamton are garnering the reputation of selectivity. I wouldn't mind seeing a retooling within the system so more of the State's campuses gain this reputation. With it's supposed bargain education it seems that SUNY has become more of the WalMart of education in NYS. I don't think there needs to be a sacrifice of quality in favor of affordability.</p>
<p>My son applied to Geneseo for a financial safety, but it is not a safety for him academically. I think last year the average SAT was about 1300, not too shabby. He applied to New Paltz, which is a cool school in a cool area, as a both financial and academic safety, and if all else failed and he had to attend there, I think he would be happy. It is a cool town, near lots of mountain/rock climbing, hiking, outdoor activities.</p>
<p>SUNYs meet the needs of a LOT of students - I think the students/parents on this board tend to be a bit more selective/choosy.</p>
<p>Muffy -- I will take a stab at answering your question, but would welcome the input of anyone more knowledgable than I am about the inner workings of NYS government. My understanding is that after the Governor and NYS Legislature appropriate general funding to the State University of New York, the Chancellor of SUNY and appropriate executive staff (in consultations with the Trustees of SUNY) in the Albany centralized office divy up the pie among the various SUNY campuses. It is then the responsibility of the individual college and university presidents to determine how their portion of the pie is split up on their campus. So, yes, they have self-contained budgets, but the role of individual campus execs is analogous to an impoverished parish priest petitioning the Archbishop. The power of the purse remains centralized, in SUNY's case in Albany. Decentralization has been at the heart of the reform measures that have been proposed in rercent years.</p>
<p>Except for Nelson Rockefeller and Robert Moses, mere mortals have never been able to figure out how to channel New York State money to suit their personal visions, be it for sports stadiums, education or anything else. And so far, Eliot Spitzer is no exception. In all likelihood, his grandiose $3 billion plan to develop nationally famous SUNY research facilities will fail, as it should. </p>
<p>The SUNY system is strategically dispersed across dozens of legislative districts. Notwithstanding how centralized or decentralized the process is supposed to be in theory, I would speculate that the legislature will divide up the increased SUNY spending, if any, so that each district gets a share. In this imperfect way, SUNY will hopefully continue to maintain and improve its Walmart-like reputation for providing students at virtually level of achievement, the education they need at a price their families could not otherwise afford, in an unpretentious environment with few frills.* </p>
<p>*The main differences from Walmart being that SUNY students don't have to worship the gospel of Sam Walton or be complicit in third world sweatshops.</p>
<p>Two steps that would spare the tax kitty that SUNY could take are (1) allowing each of the 4 university centers to raise tuition and keep the money, and (2) setting a requirement that students cannot apply to the 4 unless they are in the top 10% of their class (similar to the UCs requirement that applicants be in the top 12.5 percent).</p>
<p>My D's main problem with most of the 4 year SUNY campuses is that they're all really COLD and SNOWY and ISOLATED, so I don't think any amount of legislation will change that.</p>
<p>Sawdust: LOL, you got me (and with good humor I might add)</p>
<p>Danas: Excellent idea, simple and to the point</p>
<p>Muffy: Again, with good humor you make an excellent point. A lot of people say to me when I say my D has Fredonia in her top 3 schools "Why would you want to go there? It is so cold!" But you make a point, not too many places are better in NYS: Potsdam, Plattsburgh, Oswego (OMG), Buffalo all have lots and lots of winter weather for the money!!</p>
<p>danas, don't like your class rank idea, mainly because it knocks my D out : ) but also would really discriminate against kids from Stuyvesant where everyone is brilliant. My D's gc says the SUNYs only look at gpa and test scores anyway...although the websites claim to consider all the things that make you a special person....</p>
<p>Stony Brook seems to be really expanding. Between its purchase of Southampton College and the Gyrodyne property, a lot is happening here. I have taught there, in the Humanities, which are not normally considered when Stony Brook is under discussion, and my students have been quite capable.</p>
<p>It is also warmer here than at the other schools. </p>
<p>About the cold: It seems more appetizing when Dartmouth, Midd and Williams are being considered than when Albany, Buffalo and Geneseo are.</p>
<p>Here are some of the wonderful amenities of Stony Brook:
1)Staller Center -- film festival, music, theater.
2)Wang Center -- great Asian studies center.
3)Campus that is not actually pretty.
4)Very diverse student population.
5)Easy access to NYC.
6)LI Sound.
7)Sport -- Go Seawolves!!</p>
<p>
[quote]
My D's main problem with most of the 4 year SUNY campuses is that they're all really COLD and SNOWY and ISOLATED, so I don't think any amount of legislation will change that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So's Cornell. Yet somehow Cornell has no difficulty filling its classes.</p>
<p>Cold and snowy don't apply, but isolated certainly does when it comes to many of the Virginia state schools (such as William and Mary and Virginia Tech -- even the University of Virginia isn't exactly in a metropolis), yet they enjoy a popularity that no state school in New York could come close to matching. </p>
<p>If New York wants to improve its state system, maybe they should take a look at what Virginia is doing and emulate it.</p>
<p>Marian -- I wouldn't say William and Mary is isolated. It is part of (on the outer fringe) the Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News Metrolitan area, a region with close to 2 million residents. You've got a better case with Blacksburg.</p>
<p>Although Charlottesville is not a metropolis, it is a pretty sophisticated community with a lively and interesting downtown. Sort of like Ithaca without all the snow. Unfortunately, few of the SUNYs are located in communities that bring to mind Charlottesville and Ithaca. New Paltz probably comes the closest.</p>
<p>marian, my son is at James Madison. Harrisonburg is no metropolis either, but my son loves it. It has many conveniences with easy access to restaurants, movies, concerts, malls. He has free public and JMU transportation. The dorms that he resided in were fairly new with A/C (many don't have A/C, but his did). The food has been ranked #7 among public and private colleges in some guidebook (it is excellent). The weather is pleasant, yet there is skiing 20 minutes away. Nice hiking and general outdoor activities are readily available. There is a lot of school spirit, and my son would not want to be anywhere else. Most of the kids are very happy, and the retention rate is 91%, so they are doing something right, as are VT, and of course UVA and William and Mary. VA schools are really good, and my only complaint is that we don't live in VA for instate tuition, LOL! Oh, and the other drawback is that there is not an Amtrak station or large airport nearby.</p>
<p>I'm not surprised that your son is happy, northeastmom.</p>
<p>I'm from Maryland, and I know of students who are happy to be at UVa, William and Mary, Mary Washington, Virginia Tech, James Madison, and George Mason.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, all of them are paying out-of-state tuition.</p>
<p>Mythmom, a bit off topic, but why doesn't Stony Brook offer a Japanese-language major? With the Wang Center, I figured that SB would be in tune with things Asian, but no dice. I even e-mailed a Japanese professor there, and she told me that my daughter should look elsewhere! I thought that was odd.</p>
<p>Marian, I agree. We recently looked at U of Mary Washington with our younger son and he really liked it too. The problem is that they are not going to be affordable for the middle class for long. We are an upper middle class family, and JMU is currently a stretch for us. Every thousand that they go up, we feel at this point. Sadly, my younger one would like to attend a VA public, but I had to tell him that by the time he matriculates that the VA OOS option might be too expensive for us. We are looking at more private school options with him. JMU really does not offer much aid for instate or out of state for the average student.</p>
<p>Marian, I have a relative whose son is at a private prep in MD, and they all seem to want to go to UVA! UVA, has a lot of aid available.</p>