Support Programs for a First-Gen, Full-Pay student?

Parents Forum
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<p>I am a parent volunteer at our local high school and have another new-to-me college applicant issue for one of the students there that I am hoping y'all can help me work through.</p>

<p>This student is a first generation, Indochinese female who will be full-pay for college. I feel that she would really benefit from some of the First-Gen programs out there, but most cater to First Gen/Low-Income students. I have explained to her that it's late to be applying for most of the programs I know of that support First Gen students in preparing their college applications, but that I would see if I could find some to help her. </p>

<p>She won't qualify for Questbridge due to income. I have known this student for 4+ years but had no idea she was First Gen until she contacted me today to ask for help with applications. I know that they don't speak English at home, but had no idea that her parents would not be able to help with applications (not that they aren't willing. They simply have no experience.) Student will be applying to top schools. </p>

<p>I know that you are going to ask about the high-income/low English proficiency issue with the parents and, honestly, I have no idea. Our high school is relatively low-income, very diverse (students speak over 80 different languages), and we send a substantial number of seniors to Top 20 schools. So, I'm just never shocked by any combination of quandaries these amazing students tell me they have anymore. I just try to help. ;)</p>

<p>Rough Stats:
First-Gen
Indochinese
Income around $200,000
High GPA
Inconsistent test scores (language may be a factor): higher in humanities, lower in Math and Science
AMAZING ECs and leadership: State, national, international awards. Goes overseas every summer on full scholarship.
Full IB, I think</p>

<p>So... any ideas for non-need-based First-Generation Student support programs? If not, she may be stuck with me to guide her, bless her heart.</p>

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<p>UW-Madison has a merit-based (i.e. not based on financial need) scholarship support program for under-represented minorities, including people with an ethnic background from Southeast Asian (Cambodian, Hmong, Laotian, or Vietnamese). Does she fit in this category?</p>

<p><a href=“Our Opportunities - Wisconsin Scholarship Hub (WiSH)”>http://scholarships.wisc.edu/Scholarships/schlrDetails;jsessionid=KxbBQPMdw1v35QbzN2Gfvsxk06x5LkH4zJ3hy21515dhVTCPJvn!209038631?scholId=5123&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“Mercile J. Lee Scholars Program – Chancellor's and Powers-Knapp Scholarships – UW–Madison”>http://provost.wisc.edu/csp.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The Award
Chancellor’s Scholars who consistently meet program expectations will benefit from:
A full tuition scholarship (resident/non-resident)
A $400.00 book stipend each semester</p>

<p>The Program Components
Program components complement the financial award and provide significant experiences which enhance Scholars’ personal and academic success. Individual appointments, class and monthly meetings, volunteer service and other events directly connect Scholars to the campus community and promote further exploration of the abundant wealth that the university offers.</p>

<p>Program Scholars benefit from:
On-going academic advising and individual support services by program staff
Faculty/staff mentor pairings
Leadership skills development opportunities
Monthly meetings with scholarship class
Monthly program meetings
Volunteer service and social events
Celebrations that promote intercultural understanding</p>

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<p>I would like to applaud you for being aware of this. Even without money as an issue, being the first kid in a family to go to college has serious pitfalls. It was a real problem for my d but there was no support in place for first generation without need or URM status. Just having someone to answer questions would have been a blessing.</p>

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<p>Yes, @Madison85‌ , the student does fit in that category. Thank you for letting me know. Right now, she’s working on her ED app to a Top 20 school, and has lots of questions regarding that. However, for RD, I will make sure to point this out to her. Thanks!</p>

<p>And, thanks, @zoosermom‌ . The students I get to work with are, uniformly, amazing students. I feel like I know them because I’ve coached them and traveled to competitions with them for years, then, BOOM, they tell me something I didn’t know about them that puts their academic journey into a completely different context. </p>

<p>Interestingly, though, it’s almost as if they think that these life-altering experiences are not something they should talk about. This student was shocked to learn that being First Gen and the fact that her parents are really only fluent in their native language were things that she might want to mention on her college apps. Here on CC, we get lulled into thinking that most of the mysteries of the application process are, in fact, common knowledge. I am constantly surprised to learn the extent to which that isn’t the case.</p>

<p>The past two years, I have worked with several First-Gen/Foreign-born students on their college apps. This will be my 5th such student. The other students did quite well with acceptances, but I always feel like I’m missing important knowledge associated with maximizing the students’ applications. I don’t know if I’m asking all of the right questions to pull out information that is crucial to their stories that they don’t consider important. It seems that the most important pieces of these students’ stories often come out very casually, non-chalantly…as afterthoughts. It always concerns me that schools aren’t understanding the full affect their family histories have had on their academic journeys, both for better and worse.</p>

<p>So, any non-need-based First Gen programs that help students with college apps? I’m looking for something like Questbridge, Posse, etc., where students can talk to knowledgeable college app consultants who are familiar with the particular issues associated with First Gen while the student is working on her apps, just to make sure we are covering everything. Thanks!</p>

5

<p><a href=“http://www.venturescholar.org/aboutus/index.html”>http://www.venturescholar.org/aboutus/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>This site provides guidance, info and tips for first gen students and URMs. If designated as a venture scholar they do provide fee waivers for member schools.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.venturescholar.org/portals/feewaiverlist.php”>http://www.venturescholar.org/portals/feewaiverlist.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>This is for high school and college students.</p>

<p>"The Ventures Scholars Program is a national membership program designed to help underrepresented and first-generation college-bound students interested in pursuing math- and science-based careers link to information, resources, and opportunities that will help them successfully pursue their career goals.</p>

<p>The Program collaborates with colleges, universities, professional associations, and organizations nationwide (VSP Partners) and offers a variety of tools to link students to the partners’ information, resources, and opportunities. The Program also invites parents/guardians and guidance counselors to receive these resources, too!"</p>

<p>Underrepresented or First Generation College Bound? (You must check at least one.) *
I am a member of an historically underrepresented group (African American or Black, Native American or Alaskan Native, Mexican or Mexican American, Hispanic, Latino, or Puerto Rican).
I am a first generation college bound student whose parents/guardians have no education beyond high school. Race and ethnicity are not factors.</p>

<p>^^^^^^^^A student does not need to be both, only one for eligibility. And the income question is not necessary to answer, it does not have an asterik next to it, therefore not requiring a response. The questions necessary to determine eligibilty are those designated as such. This is on the application itself.</p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>Even without formal programs available, this student could seek a relatively recent-grad mentor in her desired field for support and guidance on the college application and college life process. Professional associations usually have someone willing to help. She can also just plain-old read a lot on current-day advice on admissions and college life/success. And, if she can find websites of programs that are geared toward 1st gen, she might find free materials there. Also, check out the Posse Foundation. </p>

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<p>Since her HS has many different nationalities represented I would think her guidance office is used to dealing with this sort of issue. Her guidance counselor should have a lot of information on how to apply to top schools since students from there are getting into those schools. Add being proactive in dealing with the GC. She likely needs to know she needs to be assertive in asking for help and have a list of questions to ask. She should also not be shy in asking a favorite teacher about how to apply to colleges. Those people may not know her home circumstances since she does so well- they may assume her family is highly educated, well versed in English et al.</p>

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<p>@katwkittens‌ , I got SO excited about Venture Scholars and immediately texted the student about it, then realized that it’s for STEM students only–she’s humanities. Argh. What a great program, though! I have helped several students who would have benefited from this program. I am so glad to know of it, now. Thank you so much for the information.</p>

<p>@dyiu13‌ , I think she came to me because I have helped other students in similar situations, all of whom (so far) were later were accepted into Top 25 schools. I don’t mind helping her, at all. My question is always whether or not I am doing as good a job helping these students tell their stories and put them into context as professionals who work with First Gen/ESL students on a daily basis. I would just like to have someone they can turn to for second-opinions and advice. </p>

<p>And, I did call Posse. Very impressive organization. Their set-up is very different from other programs, though. They actually don’t help students with their college applications. They help with the transition from high school/home to college. We also don’t live in one of the eight Posse cities. Great organization, though.</p>

<p>@wis75‌ , one would think. However… well, there are many reasons why this sort of guidance is not provided to all college-bound students–or even all of the IB students. Some of the reasons are good, some… not. In the counselor’s defense, it is a tremendous amount of work to provide letters, apps, guidance, etc. to even the most promising prospects, much less 80-100 IB kids (there are other counselors who work with non-IB students, though the IB counselor has other responsibilities, as well). However, there is definitely a pecking order with regard to who receives the most support, the best letters, etc. Some of the students I have helped have been “favorites” in the guidance office. It’s just that the counselor doesn’t have enough hours in the day to provide much support past the most basic requests–too many students; nowhere near enough counselors. Some of the students are most definitely not favorites (the students have a clear sense of where they stand in the pecking order) and, regardless of the fact that they have competitive stats for top schools, they fear being “pests” and asking for information or help because their recommendations could suffer. Sad reality.</p>

<p>I completely removed DS1 from that process because I could see clearly by junior year that things were not going to go well for him if the guidance office handled his school reports. Fortunately, we had awesome administrators who were willing to help. But, it’s not a great situation, even for the “favorites”. Kids who make it to top schools have either lots of parental support, or they pay for professional help, or they find someone with a limited amount of info who knows them well and is willing to do their best for the student (which is where I generally come in). </p>

<p>And your statement about the teachers not knowing the students’ circumstances is VERY true. And, with 40-45 students in most AP/IB classes, the chances for the teachers to get to know individual students past school experiences are few. That’s why I encourage these students to write their essays early enough to give their recommenders a copy, along with their resume’s. Often, it’s the teacher’s first opportunity to put the student’s classroom performance into context.</p>

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<p>@happykidsmom,</p>

<p>You are arguably better poised as a $200k-income, 1stgen parent than a $50k-income, non-1stgen parent to navigate the system. You are somehow assuming that non-1stgen parents are significantly more knowledgeable than you about the college admission game and college-life landscape. The game has changed so very, very much since we parents went to college. </p>

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<p>@GMTplus7‌ ,
This student is not my child. I am a volunteer coach for a high school academic team she is on. I’m not following your point. Could you clarify? The student’s parents evidently do not speak much English and have no knowledge of how the college app process works.</p>

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<p>Higher income parents, regardless of educational attainment, tend to have higher achievement expectations of their kids as compared to lower income parents-- i.e. higher income parents generally take it as a given that 1) their kids will graduate from high school and 2) their kids will go to college. And as families tend to self-segregate according to their socioeconomic status in regards to housing & schools, the $200k first-gen kid will likely be in a school with other kids for whom their parents have high achievement expectations (i.e. absorption by osmosis-- I assume the 1st gen student is fluent in English) and which has a school culture that is conducive to sending their students to college (i.e. adequate college counseling and YOU as a supportive volunteer coach for a high school academic team :slight_smile: ). </p>

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<p>I understand that, but I think you didn’t read the post above your other comment. This is an overcrowded, inner-city, low-income high school with a successful IB program. There is a lack of adequate college counseling. The IB students who are generally most successful have high-achieving parents (many Ivy-grads) who guide/direct their children’s college app process (the state flagship is here, so lots of professors’ children are in this program). I don’t know of any private college counselors around here, though there may be one or two. The parents I know of who have hired out-of-state CCs keep it pretty quiet. </p>

<p>First/Gen ESL students who have stats for top schools are pretty much on their own here. Might be hard to believe or understand, but that’s just the way it is. That’s why I am trying to find out what sorts of programs are out there to help these students who don’t have support either at school or at home. Venture Scholars looks great for STEM students. Just trying to see if there is anything out there for non-STEM, non-need, First Gen.</p>

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<p>Thank goodness these students have you</p>

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<p>That’s nice, :slight_smile: but I’m that under $50k-income, non-1stgen parent who went to a state flagship with a non-competitive app process. We didn’t even have to write an essay or get a recommendation. So…I’m kinda flying by the seat of my pants here. I’ve been on CC since 2009, and have learned most of what I know from here (scary, I know). DS1 was (still is) a whirling dervish of academic activity and achievement. I had to come here to figure out what in the heck he was talking about when he wanted to apply to “this” or do “that”. Unfortunately, I am not very well informed on the first-gen front.</p>

<p>I’ve lucked out so far working with great kids with impressive stats. Mostly, they just need guidance on how to put their achievements into proper context relative to their life experience. Well, that, and essay editing. There are usually more grammatical problems than one would expect; an ESL issue, no doubt. It doesn’t take a lot of time on my part. I just always worry that I’m not familiar enough with the First Gen experience to be their best advisor, thus, my search for programs like Venture Scholars that can help these students, most of whom have EFC’s that just barely miss the cut for Questbridge.</p>

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<p>If the student intends to apply to very selective schools, make her aware of the need for SAT subject tests and/or teacher recommendations at some of them. If any SAT subject tests are needed, she needs to be sure to sign up for them in time for the application deadlines. If any teacher recommendations are needed, she needs to ask for them before the teachers get overloaded with them (in another thread, there is a discussion about teachers who will only write a limited number of them, so the students who ask late are out of luck).</p>

<p>She also needs to verify the amount that her parents will contribute, and note that the most expensive college list prices can be around $65,000 per year all-in.</p>

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<p>Thanks, @ucbalumnus‌ ! I am not sure where she is right now with everything. I am meeting with her tomorrow. I know that she is retaking the ACT in October (“last dates” for ED was what she texted me about originally, which led to other discussions). So, I know she is thinking about the correlation between test dates and app deadlines. Thanks for the reminder. And I saw that teacher rec thread but haven’t read it yet. I will definitely remind her. Thanks!</p>

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<p>being full-pay eliminates a huge part of the complexity of college admissions, since the financial piece is by far the hardest to understand and navigate. As long as she completes her testing in a timely manner, requests her recommenders, and understands how to fill out the Common App, she sounds like she’ll do fine with your help. College counselors in public schools usually just try to help kids hit deadlines, and as someone said already, even college educated parents are re-learning everything in this new world of admissions. I’m sure you can help her to make a calendar with dates and deadlines, and lists of what is due for each of her colleges.</p>

<p>Two years ago I was very worried about a close friend of one of my kids. The mother had died and she lived with a grandmother who came over from China to care for her and spoke zero English. They had no car, but somehow lived in a big house and had the money for college (maybe the Mom’s life insurance? maybe a lifetime of savings?anyway…). She went to a large public, over 6K students, and had no help from anyone with her applications. I was convinced she would be lost and fail completely. Every time I asked, she said she was fine and it wasn’t rocket science. She told me anyone who had taken her rigorous HS curriculum could do college applications. I don’t think she ever had anyone proofread anything. She got in everywhere she applied except Harvard and is now in her second year at Princeton, very happily. With your help I think your student will do just fine. </p>

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<p>It is really difficult to find programs.
My younger daughter attended an inner city school that had 4 or 5 programs within the school for students to get academic & social support. However only one program did not require the students to be a minority, and it required an interview from a teacher who didn’t seem to like us for some reason. ( I found out later that she really didn’t seem to like * anybody*)
Luckily the next year another program was added that was more flexible on income restrictions.</p>

<p>In college, TRIO is a national program aimed at giving support to students who have disabilities, are first gen & or low income. I participated in it while I was attending community college & it was a great help, even more so than the disability support services.
My older Ds college also has a mentor program for students who are first gen.</p>

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<p>Well, I don’t know why anyone with plenty of money needs a program at all. After that it really is just picking appropriate schools and meeting deadlines. Lots of students do this year after year without a program . And, while I do agree the counseling at many public schools is not great I also agree that applying to colleges is not rocket science and it certainly can be and is done independently by first gen students all the time.</p>

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<p>As others have mentioned, the fact that money will not be much of an issue, the student that you are assisting will have many more advantages not available to first generation/low income students .</p>

<p>I think that these website can help you help navigate your student through the process</p>

<p><a href=“Introduction”>http://www.firstinthefamily.org/highschool/Introduction.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.luminafoundation.org/publications/first_in_the_family.pdf”>http://www.luminafoundation.org/publications/first_in_the_family.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“What It's Like to Be the First Person in Your Family to Go to College - The Atlantic”>What It's Like to Be the First Person in Your Family to Go to College - The Atlantic;

<p><a href=“http://www.bu.edu/today/2014/help-for-first-in-their-family-to-go-to-college/”>http://www.bu.edu/today/2014/help-for-first-in-their-family-to-go-to-college/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>imfirst.org</p>

<p><a href=“Hamilton College - First-Year Students - First-Year Experience Program”>https://www.hamilton.edu/first&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;