<p>Swallows to Capistrano have nothing on CC's migration every April of the pin-hole visioned, magical thinking FA birds (pronounced "faw" like "caw" although that will confuse the Bostonians ;)). </p>
<p>There are two basic categories:
A.) Those who thought that by "dropping all the way down to schools ranked 21-100" their Ivy stats would guarantee full-rides aplenty or maybe the occasional full-tuition if Little Johnny "blew off" the essay.
B.) Those who can't get it through their head that the amount elite schools calculate you should be able to pay (or borrow) rarely matches what you expect if your income is over $80k or if you have some assets, or if you are self-employed, own a small business, or a farm/ranch (or for a lucky proud few - all five). </p>
<p>Here's one such thread. There are many more. </p>
<p>
[quote]
What are the options for paying for school? I've been applying for scholarships, and it's frustrating and seemingly futile. I got into four fantastic schools that I would be beyond thrilled to attend, but none of them offer merit and their financial aid options are rather pitiful at best.</p>
<p>I was awarded merit at a few schools that I simply cannot fathom attending next year. I have my heart sent on any of the four; what are my options? My parents are in that awful position where they simply make too much to be awarded a lot and too little to actually pay for a 45K + annual tuition.</p>
<p>What are your suggestions? Please help. I'm frantic. I really want a top tier school-- I worked hard enough to earn admission, and I very much want to find some way to possibly afford it.</p>
<p>Many thanks!
[/quote]
We should be even more pointed , even more direct in our "conversations" with parents and students of the class of 2013. </p>
<p>I've been here a long time and I've banged this drum pretty loud and pretty dang often. Obviously to absolutely no effect. It saddens me. As a community we need to do a better job.</p>
<p>Do your FA homework.
Know. Don’t guess.
Talk openly and often about college financing.
Share data with your fellow parents.
Find that financial and admissions safety school before you do anything else. Spend 90% of your time doing this. Anyone can fall in love with ______ (insert favorite school) and _______(insert second favorite school). Visit them after selection.</p>
<p>After you do this the pressure is off and the time you spend with your kid this last year visiting, planning, plotting can be among the most enjoyable y’all have ever had together.</p>
<p>If you think it’s bad here, you should see what goes on in the “real world” outside of CC. Two examples:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>My daughter tells her public school’s college counselor she got in ED to an Ivy. His response; “Congratulations, did you get any academic scholarships?”</p></li>
<li><p>I am a self employed professional. Another parent asks me “Can’t you hide your income to get financial aid?” Yeah, I guess my daughter could get need based aid…if I was in a federal penitentiary.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Typical scenario among my daughter’s classmates: Apply to five privates and state flagship. Attend state flagship.</p>
<p>When a child registers for the SAT they should be on the Collegeboard’s radar screen and start getting info sent to them about FAFSA. If there parents haven’t the clue by then, it is almost too late, but better than waiting until after applications have gone out.</p>
<p>Colleges should incorporate reality into their brochures. Be upfront about what they will consider before awarding you aid (CSS and or their own forms). Clearly state “we don’t care if you have a 2400 SAT, if your parents make $100K+ a year, they will have to pay up for you to come here”</p>
<p>Colleges should revamp the data they do put out there to be give the true picture of who does get aid and how much from their school. Have you ever seen the words “your parents had better know their fafsa score before you apply here because there is practically no chance they will pay less than that for you to attend this school”.</p>
<p>Likewise a college (besides the HYP’s of the world) could state “we give merit aid regardless of financial need” in bold print.</p>
<p>I think it would help if the colleges using Profile could be more transparent in letting families know their FA policies. Some have aid calculators, I’ve seen one which says what it considers typical assets, but for the most part I feel like parents are in the dark with these schools.</p>
<p>I think there is a big misconception about the EFC. Most people think that schools will cover the EFC, no matter what. That is not the case. You may have an EFC of $20K, but then the school wants you to pay $32K…this was indeed a misconception I had! Sometimes it is a learn as you go thing.</p>
<p>Kids who are smart enough and hardworking enough to have high scores are more than capable of doing the simple arithmetic of family budgets, i.e., income, taxes, housing expenses, transportation, insurance etc.</p>
<p>Thus, if college applications had a section requiring students to create: (a) a budget (NOT A FAFSA BUDGET) for their family, showing how much their parents can realistically pay towards college based upon their income and expenses, and (b) how much to expect in aid from the college they are applying to, based upon available information in the public domain; within days, tens of thousands of college applicants (and their helicopter parents) would become the world’s leading experts on reasonable expectations.</p>
<p>The fact that presently, such knowledge will not help a kid get accepted into the college of his choice, means that for many, such an analysis will not be on the radar screen, and, therefore, the swallows will continue to make their yearly journey to the CC/Capistrano of preenial pathetic whining.</p>
<p>I think alot of parents choose to be in the dark – it isn’t like the information isn’t out there, you can buy whole books on the subject! They are just sure that their student is so special that they will earn that free-ride – they can’t imagine another student can be as special as their precious susan or johnny. </p>
<p>We also have quite a few parents who are conflict adverse or prefer the “I am sure things will work out” method of problem-solving. They just don’t want to “deal” with the FA part of college admissions.</p>
<p>As far as college counselors – don’t even get me started. I take a college class right now about the freshman experience (next year, I will mentor 15 college freshman) and in class we were discussing finances. Several kids said that they had trouble because their parents wouldn’t pay, even though the FAFSA said they could. The professor (30 years experience, very knowledgeable, who would ever doubt her word) said that they just needed to meet with the FA people and have themselves declared independent. I then proceeded to give a 20 min summary of federal financial aid, the meaning of dependency according to FAFSA and the difference between that and independence according to the IRS, etc.</p>
<p>This covers not only financial aid, but also admission. “my kid has 4.0/1400+, so we’re expecting a free ride to Harvard. If not, we’ll settle for Princeton or Yale.”</p>
<p>I went to college back in the days where it was possible for an undergrad to go independent. My parents’ EFC was 0, but after it taking the first 2/3 of freshman year to convince my parents to submit their tax returns so I could find out I <em>had</em> an EFC of zero, I decided that the only way to survive in college was to go independent. (I had a one-time scholarship that, with working, paid for my first two quarters.) </p>
<p>Going independent didn’t make that much difference financially (I was at a state flagship), but it enabled me to get Staffords (then GSL) and Pell grants (still with an EFC of zero) without having to battle my parents. At least I was in control of my destiny.</p>
<p>I think a lot of parents are uncomfortable letting their kids know how much they earn and what they have (and haven’t) saved. I remember how stunned I was when I discovered how little my parents had in the bank. It was less than a 1979-era military paycheck – and we were a family of seven. </p>
<p>My kids didn’t know our earnings until this year when DS1 had to start siugning off on FA forms. On the other hand, they know we have been saving and living below our means as a way of life (and that EFC is still a scary, scary number). The kids didn’t know the exact numbers, but they had a general sense of where things stood and what our take was on college. We also made <em>our</em> financial expectations of them clear – and that dates back to middle school. DH also put himself through undergrad and grad school without any parental financial support, so we know what it’s like to work and have big loans (and that we didn’t want to dump the entire burden on the guys when it came time for college).</p>
<p>Financial education in general is a great idea – I know too many young people who think that they’ll graduate and go right on living the nice life Mom and Dad have worked 20-odd years to gain, and then they find themelves in over their heads. </p>
<p>We consider ourselves lucky that neither kid is into the material trappings of adolescence. They know what a “splurge” is. DS2 had no problem buying used skis ($65 for skis, $15 for poles) when he compared the cost of a) new or b) rentals for X years. He could afford the lift ticket for the school ski club, but not the rentals. Now he’s got his gear, bought and paid for.</p>
<p>one thing that i think would be helpful to the new parents is to search out samples of financial aid packages which are awarded. look closely at the amount of grants and scholarships, work study and loans that are included in the package. then look at the EFC for the parents. look at the total cost of attendance then subtract the amount of grants and scholarships. this gives a picture of the out of pocket cost to the student and the parents. </p>
<p>realize that the financial aid package considers loans as a part of the financial aid package.</p>
<p>Cur, don’t be discouraged. Lots of people on CC HAVE learned from you and Sybbie and all other kind sages who graciously spend time giving advice on this board. Because of my time here on CC, I knew that for merit money my daughter had to cast a wide net. She’s currently attending an OOS public on a full-tuition scholarship and loves it. And with the downturn in the economy, I’m very glad we didn’t go out on a limb financially. So yes, there is a lot of ignorance out there, but you are lighting the way for many people!</p>
<p>Your posts and those of others who have talked about merit money have been a great help to our family. I am <em>so</em> glad that we took your advice - cast a wide net, look at a range of schools, make sure you have financial safeties. </p>
<p>The ones I worry about are the kids not on CC. I think being a homeschooler and knowing there was no GC - it all depended on us - forced us to really learn what was what. And it paid off - DS got some great offers. But when I hear what the folks in our town think about college admissions and financial aid, it scares me to death.</p>
<p>We’ve got folks who think there is no way their child could ever go to a private college, although they are very academically qualified and very poor - perfect for a 100% need school. They don’t even know those exist. We’ve got others who figure that of course, their financial aid package will reflect what they can really pay. We have lots that are applying to one to three schools =:-O only and they are not safeties - academic or financial. All those are the folks that worry me.</p>
<p>I don’t think it can be said often enough: First find a school that is both an academic and financial safety that your child would be happy to attend. Don’t do anything until you’ve done that. Selective schools that admit less than 25% are not safeties for anyone, no matter how great your stats are.</p>
<p>cur, perhaps you could start a new thread, and we can pester the moderators to have it made an “IMPORTANT” thread, and permanently bumped to the top of of the parents forum. I would suggest you use this line from your post as the subject line-“Find that financial and admissions safety school before you do anything else”</p>
<p>I’ll weigh in. I started a thread in the financial aid area about preparing for finaid back in the fall. When I amend it for the upcoming year, believe me…I’ll boldface a few things.</p>
<ol>
<li>If your parents are divorced and you apply to a Profile school…plan to discuss your college plans with BOTH parents. NO…you cannot usually get the non-custodial parent waiver if the school requires the non-custodial parent to report assets.</li>
</ol>
<p>If you REALLY don’t want to divulge your non-custodial parent’s income and assets, apply to FAFSA only schools.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>If your parents’ adjusted gross income is in excess of $150,000 a year, your family is earning THREE times the national average. You are not needy by most definitions.</p></li>
<li><p>Yes, you can get loan free finaid at a few select schools. BUT first you have to get ACCEPTED at those select schools…oh and they are more than select. They are ultra competitive.</p></li>
<li><p>The discussion with your parents regarding financial aid should be happening NOW if you are a junior (hey HS Juniors…are you listening). Talk about finances and what your parents are willing to contribute. Then be realistic about your application choices.</p></li>
<li><p>Do NOT (I repeat DO NOT) apply to schools which you have no intention of attending. The person who started the “What can I do” thread applied to and got merit aid from four schools that they “cannot fathom attending”. What a waste of time applying there…and too bad for those other students who DO want to go there…who may not have gotten merit aid that was awarded to this student.</p></li>
<li><p>EVERYONE has options. EVERYONE. There are lower priced colleges, colleges that are not in the top 50 where you will get an excellent education and may qualify for merit aid, community colleges, living at home, taking a gap year and working to save for college, going to trade school, etc. Choices choices…that is what life is all about.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Interesting articles in Weekend Edition of WSJ on companies leaving the student loan business and student loan consolidation business. Could be tough by early fall.</p>
<p>I wish that we could get rid of not only the “I applied to ____ but cannot fathom attending” situation, but also the “Dream School” concept. I despair of this. But I am basically sickened by every sad story which is built around the Unavailable Dream School concept. There is NO REASON FOR ANY ONE TO HAVE A DREAM SCHOOL. Every applicant should identify four or six or a dozen schools which sound exciting and where they can imagine themselves happily ensconced, at different levels of selectivity. That cannot be hard, unless that same Magical Thinking that creates the FA bird is consulted.</p>
<p>To me the dream school is a teenage concept, akin to having a crush on one of the Jonas boys or whomever. It is ephemeral but manages to build from nothing into a do-or-die concept. And for the adults who foster/nurture/create this situation with their Ivy fever, oh boy…</p>
<p>So if we strive to do a better job as a cc community of parents wrt FA reality, I would love to attempt to convince families and students that there are, literally, dozens of schools at which they can not only thrive but be ecstatic (ecstasy apparently being the state-of-mind they expect to achieve in the college search and selection process).</p>