<p>jude_36…that’s a good post and there are other good posts here in this thread as well. i think that is why you see that students are applying to 8 to 10 schools or 10 to 14 or more. they review the f/a packages as they arrive in the spring and then make their decisions. this is probably one of the biggest unknowns to families that aren’t on cc…that some kids do really apply to numerous schools. we only knew because we found cc and there were so many kind posters who gave us information. otherwise, we would not have known ! </p>
<p>there are some schools that have merit aid calculators at their websites and we found these helpful. baylor and southwestern used to have them. i’m not sure if they still do or not.</p>
<p>From a look at BU board, some pretty ticked off applicants and parents. My kid fell well within parameters for predicted merit aid but rec’d none for academics (did get music $ but really hoped for some academic, too, as NMF) and one poster’s son had considerably higher stats and rec’d none. She called BU and was told that there would be no changes. As with all schools this year, applicant numbers rose dramatically.</p>
<p>So BU’s prediction charts may well have different numbers next year.</p>
<p>When I had my first child apply to schools, I did my research and knew our EFC. (It was very similar to the COA of a in state public). After all of his FA awards were in, all of his schools were within $1000 and matched our EFC very closely. He applied to only FAFSA schools and none were very selective.</p>
<p>This year my D applied to schools. Her list was much different than her brothers and included in state publics and OOS private schools. She had some Profile and some FAFSA only schools. She was accepted to two 100% meets need schools. Our EFC is pretty much the same as it was for my S except that I now have two in college instead of one. I researched and ran the numbers and thought that I had an idea of what colleges expected that we could pay. </p>
<p>The numbers for my D’s FA awards were all over the board. For the two 100% meets need schools, the amount of aid differed by $10,000. Of the 6 schools that my D applied to 2 came close to matching what our EFC was. Some schools didn’t even come close. I feel very lucky that I pushed her to apply to more than a couple of schools. FA is very important and I knew that we had to compare offers. Even after hours and hours on CC and reading posts and posts of FA posts, even I was suprised by the different amounts of aid that my D was offered. She applied to schools in a major that women are needed in and I thought that schools might try to give her $ to entice her to come to their schools but I didn’t see that happen except at the two schools that did meet are need.</p>
<p>We have applied for financial aid for the first time this year. D had a small (but nice and very appreciated) merit scholarship to Rice, but WildChild has been full-fare and it is an EXTREMELY high full-fare (would we have expected any less from him???). </p>
<p>I will be glad to share our results- he is a rising 3rd year- when we get them. I suspect we won’t get a dime, but you miss all the shots you don’t take, right? Given the change in the financial aid policy at many of the Ivys, we took a shot. We have burned through WildChild’s educational funds due to some issues with and choices fo high school and the unusually high cost of his college. We are closer to retirement (H is retired) than some parents, and would like to preserve those funds. We are heading into a recession, and no one can count on appreciating real estate OR stocks right now. After doing all the forms (which is absolute torture), I felt like we look like Bill Gates on paper. It makes me wonder why we don’t LIVE like him! Stay tuned. I think our situation will be very instructional for those going forward. Obviously, this is something one should consider way before entering 3rd year at one of the most expensive schools in the country, but it will still be an interesting datapoint.</p>
<p>While our children were growing up, the only tales we heard from family and friends were of generous visits from the financial aid fairy. We were fairly confident that our daughter was even more accomplished and “worthy” so we dreamed big, and allowed her to do the same. </p>
<p>As the time drew closer for our daughter to apply to college, we did our FA homework before anything else, and got a cold, hard reality check. “Honey, what are you doing with that extra $2,000 at the end of every month that they say we should have for college?” Gulp. No, Virginia, there is no financial aid fairy, and merit aid is too rare to count on. Collectively, we shrunk our dreams down to size. We warned our daughter not to become too enamored with any school; where she ultimately enrolled could very well come down to $$. (She fell in love anyway, and was rejected by her love match, but that’s another story.)</p>
<p>I suspect many of those “full ride” stories are just that – stories – contrived to enhance a child’s image. Don’t believe everything you hear. The swallows we fly with are loathe to admit their miscalculation or overblown opinion of their child’s desirablity. They then cover their egos with claims of exaggerated aid or scholarships. Unfortunately, I suspect there are many other parents who believe these stories and are faced with a rude awakening. The up side: we live in a wealthy community where most parents can cover their stories or missteps with fat tuition checks. </p>
<p>All the schools who said they would meet 100% of our need (however they chose to calculate it) did so. In advance, we knew their estimate of our need would be much lower than ours, so we were not surprised when that happened. The FA package at the school to which our daughter will probably attend happened to be the most generous. Our entire family will still have to sacrifice in order for her to go, but we knew that up front, which has made all the difference. </p>
<p>Thanks to all of you brilliant veteran parents, for sharing your wisdom with the greenhorns! Curmudgeon: You are one of my favorite CC denizens. Being a straight shooter, I know I can trust what you say.</p>
<p>I think some of y’all are getting lost in the minutiae. I am certainly not suggesting that you can know with certainty what a particular school will do for you FA-wise if you have assets, a farm, a business, a non-qualified retirement plan, or are self-employed . I am saying you don’t have to read very much of the FA Times to find out those things are issues likely to fall on your head. Armed with that bare minimum of knowledge one is empowered to make realistic choices. </p>
<p>I’d suggest assuming all those issues will cut against you and select some of your schools accordingly. Although saying that the process is so dense it is not understandable provides you with some temporary comfort, it’s not going to provide you with a soft landing spot. </p>
<p>As I see it , your job (and certainly your kid’s job) is to make sure your kid has a soft landing spot- a place to go to college you can afford that gets them where they want to go in life. That’s the meat. Beyond that we’re just talking about the gravy. As always, jmo.</p>
<p>Our family followed some simple principles this year: (1) Our S only applied to schools that he was truly interested in attending. (2) We discussed finances early and often. (3) We knew we would not qualify for need-based grants, so when choosing private schools in his field of interest, he did not apply to the ones that offered no merit aid. </p>
<p>The bottom line: Many of his schools were what curmudgeon calls “soft landing spots.” He has a particular passion, and for a whole variety of reasons too complicated to explain here, I will be very surprised if he changes his mind. The place he’s landed is also tops in his field, and he’s thrilled.</p>
<p>I usually stay out of the CC discussions where it’s suggested that parents who won’t fully finance their kids’ college educations just want big houses and fancy cars instead. For the vast majority of us who put limits on the amount we’re able to spend, it’s a different story, and it’s always a unique and personal decision. I am grateful for all the advice I’ve gleaned from CC, but this value judgment makes me grit my teeth every time I read it. </p>
<p>Using a financial aid/EFC calculator early and often worked for us. So did avoiding magical thinking (though I confess that I lapsed into that mode briefly, but on the academic reach front, not the financial aid front). </p>
<p>A note about BU: My S got merit aid according to the charts, but I guess others didn’t–another reminder that it’s a crapshoot. He’s not attending, but the FA was not the primary reason.</p>
<p>And don’t you love colleges that advertise a certain HIGH % that receive scholarships, only to find those scholarships average $3000 at a school that costs $50,000? And kelsmom, you should have added in your loud voice that most schools don’t even MEET your EFC, so you can’t even go by that number.</p>
I didn’t want to edit so I’ll just start here. </p>
<p>I really want y’all to understand that after you do this task the process can become loads of fun. It can become a joy. Consider it “trading up”. When that first not completely expected or larger than expected scholarship or more generous than expected FA award comes in you rejoice and move the pin up a couple notches. For us it was from 1) an automatic admit state school with a val tuition exemption first year and a $4k/yr scholarship and 2) a small LAC with auto merit to Rhodes and Centre with barely adequate but doable scholarships. (Big scholarship at Rhodes came later.) Both fantastic schools.</p>
<p>Your absolute safety is no longer the destination. It was successful process if it had ended right there. If we had set a realistic goal - that was it. We had no greater expectation. We just wanted a school she loved that I could afford. (That had a track record of great med and grad school placement in her fields. And some date-able boys.)</p>
<p>Celebrate Good Times - Come On. It’s a celebration. </p>
<p>bandnerd, search for info like this from Rhodes. (Google is your friend.) If you can’t find it call them. If they won’t tell you then you can’t see where you fit. (I suggest matching these awards up with CDS numbers for a very rough outline. I also suggest googling the name of the scholarhsip + the name of the school and finding previous winners . Then google that winner. See how your kid stacks up. Hey. I didn’t say this was easy.)</p>
<p>What are the scholarships and fellowships I may be eligible for?
They include:</p>
<p>Bellingrath Fellowship (3): Full tuition, fees, room/board
Morse Fellowship (5): $32,000/year
Cambridge Fellowship (15): $24,000/year
University Fellowship (35): $15,000/year
Ralph C. Hon Fellowship (15): $15,000/year
Dean’s Fellowship (10): $15,000-$24,000/year for students of color
Fine Arts Fellowship (8): $12,500/year
CODA Fine Arts Fellowship (4): $12,500/year
Bonner Scholarship (15): $12,100/year in addition to any other Rhodes aid
Taylor Fellowship in Physics (1): Up to $15,000/year in addition to any other Rhodes aid
Presidential Fellowship (50): $12,500/year
Rhodes Awards (50): $5,000-$10,000/year</p>
<p>Then look to see GPA and SAT/ACT bands (for example only. I’m not saying that’s all it takes. It’s not. ) 25% equal to or greater than 1380. 9% 1460 and above. 41 vals and sals. In a class of 425 or so…those top 8 awards go pretty fast.</p>
<p>Curm, your original post was expressing frustration that, despite all of your attempts to educate, year after year you see the posts of disappointed parents and students. I think my reaction is - there’s nothing you can do about that. It will always be that way. Even very educated, very savvy people are going to make some assumptions that turn out to be wrong. Either institutionally wrong, or personally wrong. </p>
<p>For me, I’d heard from friends that their EFC was so high, how could they afford that, etc. I’d read that funding of schools had shifted from mostly grants to mostly loans. So I filled out the FAFSA and held my breath. And then, WHEW! We qualified for subsidized loans! We had an EFC that I thought was reasonable! Then my daughter got a couple of merit scholarships… JUBILATION! YAY! YAY! YAY!.. then we got the full packages and found out that they just reduced the need-based aid so the merit scholarship was useless. Then we got the packages from schools that claim they are meeting 100% of demonstrated need, but not according to any formula that <em>I</em> can figure out. And I’m disappointed, and stressed. I think the letdown of reality after that initial ray of hope was the biggest problem. </p>
<p>I expect that next year you’ll have another person who had the same thing happen, and the year after that, and the year after that… so I think all you can do is continue to educate and hope that, while you haven’t solved anyones financial aid woes, you HAVE given them the valuable information they were looking for when they came here.</p>
<p>jude, yes I was expressing frustration and for that I apologize. It was my impetus for the thread but not my purpose. My purpose was to ask - what else can we do to educate? What can we change about the way we present the data? The strategies? A secondary purpose was to kick the vets (including me) in the butt and say - ladies and gents we ain’t doing a very good job. Re-read it. That’s all in there somewhere. But somehow the frustration popped out a little more than I intended and overshadowed the rest of it. Sorry.</p>
<p>Cur, I don’t think “it’s all in there somewhere.” The process is designed to be non transparent. As long as colleges are on a mission to attract as many applicants as possible, being vague about financial aid serves their purposes. It’s a system designed to keep parents and students in the dark for as long as possible. I might be overgeneralizing, but you get my drift.</p>
OOPs!! Not clear. Sorry, LNM. Typed too fast I guess. I meant my purpose in posting this thread “was all in there somewhere” and the poster could re-read my original post to verify what I was trying to do. Not that all the data necessary to cross the “Lake of Financial Aid Fire” was contained anywhere within my 5436 posts. :eek: </p>
<p>Heaven’s to Betsy. Sorry. I’ll take a brief hiatus to master ESL and return.</p>
<p>I’ll throw out an idea… One of the greatest misconceptions is about the EFC actually being what the family is going to have to contribute. In reality, it is the MINIMUM a family should expect to contribute. </p>
<p>So perhaps referring to the EFC as the “Minimum EFC - expect to pay more” going forward. Perhaps if enough folks see it referred to as a minimum they could possibly pay, their expectations will also be tempered better?</p>
<p>I think there is an old saw that goes “If you lower expectations enough, satisfaction is guaranteed!”</p>
<p>We just need to do a better job of lowering expectations.</p>
<p>I do run around telling everyone that “big merit” is as rare as hen’s teeth. Maybe we need more of that and an equally clear voice on EFC? Calculate, research and plan for the worst case scenario using the available methodology- not the best case scenario. Hmmm. Maybe that is part of the problem. Some people actually believe the brochures and websites when they say “no student is turned away for an inability to pay”. I always assumed everybody had seen enough advertisements about gas mileage averages of cars or “calories per serving” to know that “advertising math” bore no resemblance to real math.</p>
<p>And folks. Those websites ain’t nothing but a computer infomercial. No negative news in that world. Happy, shiny people.</p>
<p>And don’t forget that some of us who own a “business” simply own our own jobs, but that’s not listed in the Business Supplement forms. My h is a partner in a 3 person law firm. The business as a business has no “value”. They cannot sell the practice because there’s nothing to “sell” - people will take their legal problems elsewhere if h and his partners aren’t there. My h can take a vacation, as he puts it, “any time he doesn’t want to get paid.” At least farmland has a value and can be sold on the open market! (Sorry all you farmers out there, particularly you, cur!) And yet, colleges seem to think that just because my h is self-employed that there’s an “asset” out there somewhere. And each school values it differently.</p>
<p>So for those of you who own your own jobs - don’t trust the calculators, and cast a wide net!</p>
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