<p>The Common App could require a Financial Disclosure Supplement provided by each school. Students (and parents) would have to fill out and file the form with their application. It could be a simple version of the FAFSA: about 4lines including tuition and housing numbers and parent income and assets approximation, if those are part of the school’s formula. As the form is being filled out, the Minimum EFC would be generated, and the applicant would see the number and have to sign off on having been provided with the information before hitting the send key.</p>
<p>Maybe this is a little too “big brotherish” but it might be the reality check needed.</p>
<p>Aaah, but Chedva. I am also an attorney in a 3 lawyer expense-sharing practice. Double your pleasure. ;)</p>
<p>And BTW , some of us have that ranch as our only home, too and in my case it’s also my sole retirement vehicle. I’ve got it all. LOL. Oh, what a lucky man! And not one single FA “issue” cut my way. Not one. But I think I knew that it would be that way.</p>
<p>At least in my community, the place to start FA education would be with the HS counseling office. </p>
<p>In a jr year orientation for college applications, the first thing that the head counselor told parents was not to worry about where your kid applies, to just have them pick out a few colleges that appeal to them and the financial part will work itself out. This, in a typical upper middle SES community where a majority of the parents will qualify for little or no need based FA! I knew a parent who’d volunteered in the college counseling office for several years and in Dec of her D’s sr year didn’t know what their estimated EFC was. I know I got a lot of incredulous stares when people heard that my D was applying to 10 schools, because most folks don’t understand that you have to cast a wide net when trying for the very selective need only schools as well as colleges with substantial merit scholarships.</p>
<p>Most parents and kids I know haven’t heard of CC, but they do, to a greater or lesser degree, have contact with the HS counselors.</p>
<p>riverrunner: That is a great idea except the application filing phase is a little late to re-research schools if the applicant realizes they are in over their head. </p>
<p>I am going to write to my State Board of Education and see if they have any ideas about getting info to parents of high schoolers.</p>
<p>Agreed Entomom, I went to the financial aid seminar that was put on by our high school guidance office. The speaker was someone from the state-wide agency that handles such things. They provided lots of information about how to find scholarships and compare aid offers and things like that. But they provided almost nothing in the way of ‘cautionary tales’, and certainly nothing that suggested that if you didn’t plan ahead, you may end up not going to college at all for a year or two.</p>
<p>Riverrunner, I like your idea too, but again have to wonder what schools would do to get around it. For example, in my daughters aid packets, only one school included a health fee in their fees. But I’m pretty sure that all the schools have a health fee. I even asked one if the ‘mandatory fees’ included a health fee, or if the health fee was separate, and they never answered me. So I suspect that I’m going to find all kinds of unpleasant surprises once my daughter goes off to school. I’m figuring an extra 5k or so for stuff I haven’t even thought about yet.</p>
<p>it’s a good idea to do a spreadsheet and list the total cost of attendance for each school under consideration. be sure to include the all the fees that are required for that school.<br>
the first year fees may include an orientation fee that is not going to be required after the first year, etc.<br>
on campus housing and meal plan may be required only the first year and then not be required after that. you get picture. that’s about the only way you can truly compare some of the financial aid packages as there are so many variables.</p>
<p>“As I see it , your job (and certainly your kid’s job) is to make sure your kid has a soft landing spot- a place to go to college you can afford that gets them where they want to go in life. That’s the meat. Beyond that we’re just talking about the gravy. As always, jmo.”</p>
<p>Would you like fries with that gravy, curm?</p>
<p>Honestly, every time I read one of these FA threads I get some nasty new little shock about how twisted the system really is!</p>
<p>While I’d like to see a more uniform set of disclosures by all schools (especially forcing the COFHE schools to disclose their formula like the government does), the above proposal would not generate any meaningful progress. And, for a couple of very simple reasons:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The timing to address FAFSA and financial aid should start WELL BEFORE anyone remotely starts looking at the Common Application.</p></li>
<li><p>For all the criticism hurled at the EFC and FAFSA, this is one of the few parts of our government that … works well. Except for the rarest of cases, ANYONE can figure out the exact EFC (the only one that deserves the name aka the FEDERAL EFC) to the penny. People pretending to remain unable to figure out the Federal EFC before the winter of their kids’ senior year … did not try very hard, especially in gathering the correct information to file a correct FAFSA. One can arrive at a VERY close number by merely running the calculator or to the **EXACT **number by applying the EFC formula to a simple spreadsheet. All it takes is a couple of hours to build a model that will not only show the final EFC number but, more importantly, allow for “what-if” scenarios.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>As many posters have written, the main problem is approaching the issue of financial with a combination of deliberate ignorance, procrastination and wishful thinking. The BASIC information leading to a correct evaluation on ones’ SAR and EFC … is available. The Federal EFC is the basic stepping stone for all additional evaluation and is absolutely necessary. Fwiw, the overwhelming majority of students do not deal with the Profile form.</p>
<p>Despite the fact that the recent announcements of increased financial MIGHT murky the waters a bit, nobody (except extremely rare cases) should expect to pay LESS than the Federal EFC. However, for some reason, people still seem to be willing to cling to the illusory notion that a school that receives federal funding could cover a part of the EFC. That is where a LOT of the problems start. That or the inexcusable fact to refuse to figure out the EFC correctly. </p>
<p>At the end of the day, there is only commonality: families need to be proactive and close their ears from an army of well-meaning but incompetent “advisers” who are compounding the problems. The information is out there --or here! One can show the river to a horse, but cannot force the beast to drink.</p>
<p>Last but not least, the issue of timing is crucial. An oft-repeated gem of advice is that everyone should approach the college application BEFORE staring high school because the right choice of curriculum is very important. The same applies to financial aid as one needs to grab control of his or her affairs well before the end of the sophomore and junior HS years. Small steps such as depleting students’ savings via ALLOWABLE (and legally permitted) expenses can go a long way to correct the erroneous advice of many “financial consultants.” </p>
<p>Unfortunately, after a number of years on CC, I see little progress as every “season” provides an encore of the prior ones, and this no matter how often posters such as Curmudgeon repeat the sage advice of addressing the problems early and often!</p>
Bethie, it appears I’m going through a food metaphor period. I’ll noodle on it some more and hopefully not flounder around till I’m plum “tucker”-ed (there’s one for our Aussie friends ;)). You’re a peach to remind me.</p>
<p>All it takes is a couple of hours to build a model that will not show the EFC number but, more importantly, allow for “what-if” scenarios.</p>
<p>Psst. Xig. You said “not” and meant “not only”.</p>
<p>And , as usual , you are correct on Fafsa and EFC. My did not vary much at all. (fafsa excludes ranches you live on ). What is killing most of us is Profile and/or the supplemental financial forms. Why don’t you walk us through where to find the Fafsa calculations? Is “finaid” the best place? Is there a definition of what is “allowable” or within the discretion of the schools to change? Where is the best worksheet?</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, re your post #79 <<"big merit is as rare as hen’s teeth>>, I would posit that there are many fine schools that offer rather large amounts of merit money. If the student (and his parents) is prepared to attend a school where he falls well over the 75% level, substantial merit money is obtainable. My personal experience has been with Tulane and Brandeis, but there are many other fine schools looking for top students to shower with money. There are some threads on CC listing top merit money schools.</p>
<p>I’m new to CC and I’d like to ask a question. If college is a couple of years away, can you take current tax returns and enter the numbers to see where you stand? Or can this be done only when actually applying to colleges?</p>
<p>A couple of my thoughts regarding your statement: Despite the fact that the recent announcements of increased financial MIGHT murky the waters a bit, nobody (except extremely rare cases) should expect to pay LESS than the Federal EFC. </p>
<p>For all those thousands of people who aspire to the top schools with FA enhancements, the realization that these schools are now affordable to middle income families will greatly increase the frenzy to get in. Our EFC says we can almost pay full price for Stanford, where our son will be going. But their FA package for us covers half the price. That is quite a prize to be added to the fact of admission.</p>
<p>Plus there will be much financial aid envy from middle income students not admitted to any of these schools, and justifiably so.</p>
<p>curm, are you asking for a simple worksheet for EFC? I’d love to have a link to that. (maybe it’s buried in this thread…so sorry if I overlooked it.)</p>
<p>I’m an officer of a Junior High PTA, with editing priviledges on the school’s website. I would LOVE to start a page there for parents looking ahead, and the EFC calculation would be a real eye-opener to those parents.</p>
<p>Let’s act locally.</p>
<p>Also, to those who lamented that discovering the EFC at the time the application is being sent would be too late. Point well taken. The idea came from club soccer, where club teams started underestimating their yearly fees plus expenses in order to improve their recruiting numbers. The state governing body then began requiring a financial disclosure form, to be signed by each club, and each family, stating clearly the expected expenses. Obviously, my reform concept would have no teeth: families could put in any numbers they choose, but it might cause them to dig for the financial safety school advocated by others on this forum.</p>
<p>ema99. Sorry but your post is exactly the kind of dangerous info that is out there. It took me less than 90 seconds to find this :</p>
<p>Following is a list of scholarships available at Brandeis:</p>
<p>Justice Louis D. Brandeis Scholarships
Full tuition for four years. Approximately 50 awarded per year.</p>
<p>Norman S. Rabb Scholarships
Full tuition for four years. Two awarded per year. </p>
<p>Gilbert Grants
Full tuition for four years. Awarded to one student each year ..</p>
<p>Presidential Awards
Four-year renewable grants of $25,000 per year. Awarded to approximately 50 students in each class </p>
<p>Dean’s Awards
Four-year renewable grants of $15,000 per year. Awarded to students with exceptional academic achievement and personal contributions to their school communities.</p>
<p>Annenberg Scholarships
Full tuition for four years. Awarded to students who have distinguished themselves in their studies and in the breadth of their intellectual pursuits and who have demonstrated personal initiative and commitment to a variety of activities beyond the classroom.</p>
<p>Hiatt Challenger Memorial Scholarships
Full tuition, renewable for four years. Awarded to one student each year who has demonstrated superior academic achievement .</p>
<p>Brandeis-Sponsored National Merit Scholarships
Awards range from $500 to $2,000, based on need.</p>
<p>That’s 103 listed. over 1/2 tuition out of a first year class of what? I’ll be right back. ;)</p>
<p>(There are special scholarships also, limited availability by various criteria .)</p>
<p>However, my preference is to find the latest EFC Formula, follow the instructions, copy all the forms and rebuild them in a model in Excel. The full instructions are here:</p>
<p>I do understand the frustration brought by the differences in IM and FM and the unclear “gapping” methods. To that, my only suggestions is to invest some time in tracking “stories” on CC and check the forums for each school of interest around the time of release of financial packages. For instance, checking NYU around that time of the year would be most indicative for anyone dreaming of a “reasonably generous” financial aid package. </p>
<p>However, the Federal EFC remains the most important piece of the puzzle as it establishes (or established) the absolute floor of financial contribution for 99.9% of families.</p>
<p>Less than 800? Did I say that everyone gets one? How is this dangerous to let people know that these scholarships exist, and are available for top students at a given university? That’s a pretty good percentage. What is your problem???</p>
<p>ema99, there are plenty of threads on good merit aid schools. I started many of them. This is not the place. Here we are talking about bad advice and misconceptions and how to get good info out there. If someone thought Brandeis was a “merit match” for their kid with 78%tile stats from New England they’d likely be disappointed as Brandeis tends to use their scholarships very strategically to enhance diversity (and there is nothing wrong with that). Many cc posters have been disappointed that their high stats kid walked away with little or nothing from Brandeis.</p>
<p>Thank you. I stand by my analysis of your quote which appeared on this thread, and not in another. Your use of the word “dangerous” reveals some kind of agenda, which is frankly, dangerous.</p>
<p>Allow me to add one important caveat: many merit scholarships lose much of their “teeth” when the student also receives need-based aid. While a student who is on a “100% full-ride” (not a redundant term, by the way) might replace the EFC of one’s family, many are surprised that the generous merit aid disappears in the need-based aid. </p>
<p>Merit aid, of course, benefits full paying families (with EFC that exceeds the COA.) However, for merit aid to be of much value to a family with lower EFC, it has to be 100% merit aid!</p>
<p>And, on this basis, I think that Cur’s comment about the rarity of VALUABLE merit aid might even be a case of underestimation.</p>
<p>PS Ema, I think that the only danger of Cur’s warning is very similar to hitting people with *very *soft pillows. The biggest danger is a continuation of the “good feeling” and “wishful thinking” quasi propaganda. There is a reason why many less than legitimate outfits start their informercials with “Billions of unclaimed scholarships …”</p>