Would love some input from other parents/relatives of recent software engineering/computer science graduates and their job searches. Background is that D has been offered a “residency” one-year offer with an insurance company doing a rotation of several positions with a guaranteed position once completed. This involves a move across country but I think she’s becoming more okay with that. She and I both thought the salary (low 80s) and benefit package was a good one. The downside is she did her internship with this company and is pretty sure that the insurance industry is a no-go in the long term.
We just went over a list of pros and cons and still no decision (needs to be made by Friday). Her college friends (she is a senior) are telling her she is “settling” and that she should not take a job that she isn’t thrilled to get (think Google, Amazon, AirBnB). Ok, so these are kids that have little work and/or internship experience, not at all knowledgeable about the work force out there in this field. One deciding factor to taking the position is that she had such a hard time getting an internship and she can’t fathom having that kind of stress looking for a job while finishing up senior year.
So, what were your student’s experiences with the job search. We’ll take any suggestions and comments you care to share. I did tell her to go see the career office and find out where last years’ graduates were offered jobs and to talk to her professors and find out if they feel the salary/job duties are a good fit for her qualifications right now. Keep in mind she isn’t graduating from a school known for their CS department and so the school name is not going to be a help, although she will graduate a double CS/Math with PBK, so her academic record is stellar.
TIA.
She should head to career services ASAP. At many colleges, exploding offers are against the rules…
Hmm. It certainly can be harder to change tracks (like to a software company) if she starts off in IT in a more traditional company. If this isn’t her longer term goal, can she articulate what is? Also, in your opinion, do you think she interviews well?
Is the type of work involved interesting to her and helpful in career development for where she wants to take her career?
Since she had an internship there, she presumably has some idea of what the answers to the above questions are.
@intparent, she is interested in ML and AI. She is getting in touch with someone from the hiring company to find out if ML might be part of the rotation. In the internship she did mainly web design and a little ML. She does not have any experience in ML or AI really. I believe she would interview somewhat well, in that she presents mature, level-headed, hard-working but the experience piece is more difficult. She did not pass some of the coding tests given during internship interviews (I think with Matlab and Mathworks maybe?).
@ucbalumnus that is precisely what we aren’t sure of. I felt that being a rotation with three different jobs would be enlightening and help her decide what she might want. I do know that she keeps saying that the insurance industry is not where she wants to work long-term. In that case, do you believe it might not be a good first move and she should hold out for something she has more desire to learn and work in?
Regarding the coding tests, how does she feel about them now? Does she think that due to additional coursework and her internship, she might do better on those now? She is likely to bump into those tests again when applying for the types of companies you listed.
@intparent, yes she feels a bit more confident after her last semester and of course she’ll have two more semesters (total of 5 CS classes) under her belt. But did she find them unnerving…she is not an especially good test taker, especially if timed. But, thank you, I will mention the probability of these tests being part of the equation. She said she will not have any specific ML/AI classes in undergraduate and is exploring whether a Masters might be necessary (for her) to get into her fields of interest. She was hoping to do her graduate studies while employed instead.
Again, she needs to find out if an offer which “expires” (i.e. an exploding offer) is against the rules at her college- it is at many. The company would be forced to extend her offer out a few months so she could compare it to others (which is what most colleges try to do for their students). Individual recruiters often press the limits until the head of career services places a nice phone call to the head of recruiting at this insurance company…
How strong is her desire to work on ML/AI? Would she prefer working ML/AI at the insurance company or general coding at Google (just an example)?
Another question: with her strong academics, has she considered grad school to build her ML/AL skill set?
Does her undergraduate school offer an AI or ML course that she can take before graduation to see how interesting the subject is to her?
For those coding tests-- has she studied “the book”? (I believe it’s called “Cracking the Coding Interview”). My daughter, not a CS major, but a smart cookie with some practical coding experience, studied intensively. Was hired by one of the big names that’s been thrown around above.
Google, Amazon, etc. are all hot. Everyone wants to “work” there. So he has a lot of competition for jobs. Insurance is the old tried and true. Methodically plugging along. Nothing fancy, but a solid job. So why doesn’t insurance work for her? That’s the real question and whether her answers are “legit.”
@blossom, thank you, I did not understand the terminology with your first post. I will forward that information to her.
I will take the other questions back to her for consideration. She was considering grad school but I think she prefers to go directly into the work force at this point.
@ucbalumnus My first guess is No. If they were offered, she would take them I believe. She did get some introduction to both AI and ML at AIT Budapest where she did her study abroad semester.
@donnaleighg, I will send her that book name, I know she hasn’t read it. She has a first (phone) interview with one of those big names but is not very confident, at least not enough to make this decision any easier. That would help for sure.
Another way to look at this is to understand what she wants to do (and how strong that desire is). That’s why I posed the question about working ML/AI at insurance company vs general coding at Google. While the insurance industry may be considered “old” updating their systems with innovative ML agents is compelling from a technology perspective and could provide better experience for other jobs in the future…
Odd that her CS department does not offer such a popular elective; is it very small?
She can take a look at AI and ML courses at other schools to check her interest in the subject:
https://ocw.mit.edu/ (e.g. 6.034)
https://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/classes-eecs.html (e.g. CS 188, 189)
@Rivet2000 I posed your exact question to her via text, it’ll be interesting to see her response. I also think that maybe working in a TechStart program is a good way to get experience and learn different facets of the tech industry. I wonder if there’s a downside, other than being a year behind other new grads, to doing this? Would another company consider it a negative if she jumped ship from the insurance industry after just one year?
I don’t think it is any easier to get a full time job at the big names than it was to get an internship. All those places had interns, and most of them are coming back, or switching to similar big name places. AI work generally requires advanced degrees but can be lucrative for those with a phd.
The market for graduating CS folks is very hot right now.
The insurance company knows her because of her successful internship. She is lower risk to them than someone they don’t already know. (Insurance companies know a lot about risk).
When do they need to know an answer and can she get an extension? The issue is how late she can still get into that rotating gig.
Can vary based on the region, employer, and specific hiring manager. But note that in states where employee non compete agreements are enforceable, they can limit changing jobs (often forcing a change of industry). Insurance companies may be part of larger companies that compete in many markets, potentially widening the scope of an employee non compete agreement to employers in other industries.