My son is a CS/Math major just starting his senior year of college. He had a good internship this past summer but ended up not loving the company, so I told him that if they offer him something, not to grab it. It is so early in the job search process, way too early to feel desperate, why accept an offer that doesn’t feel right?! I didn’t want him committing to something right now, before he has had the opportunity to do a thorough job search among companies that he would really like to work for. I feel that, whether or not the deadline is coming up for your daughter to accept, if the job isn’t really what she wants, for any reason, why should she settle?
@ClassicRockerDad, she has until Friday (they gave her a month). On the advice of @blossom she’ll be looking into the “exploding” offer possibility to get her more time. I think she was all set until Google contacted her for an interview last week, which has her thinking that her peers opinion that she is “settling” might be true. Research tells me even with a first interview the chances of being hired are slim. I dont’ want to discourage her but I do want her to know the probabilities.
I have done (big) data analytics at large banks, insurance companies, and start up tech. I have to say if she really wants to do AI/ML then I wouldn’t advice her to go to insurance. They are very slow in adopting new technology, except for few like Progressive, USAA and maybe Liberty Mutual. For retail banking, Capital One is probably a leader. I find retailers do more analytics and banking are finally doing more interesting stuff after years of doing regulatory reporting.
I would encourage to look at other industries.
I’m working as a project manager it IT at an insurance company now. I tend to agree with that. I do think the big tech companies are looking to hire more women, so that may be an advantage this year. But she’s gotta pass those coding screens.
My life experience has been that many times once on a train, it’s hard to jump off…if the insurance industry is something that she can confidently say is not for her, I would consider turning it down and continuing to look.
@oldfort AI and ML are starting to explode in the retail banking business. One of the big credit card banks just opened an AI site at UIUC http://researchpark.illinois.edu/news/synchrony-emerging-technology-center-research-park
It took awhile for them to become comfortable with ML, but I think most are there and the OCC is also onboard. I don’t know as much about insurance, but they have to be in the same place. ML is changing the way the models are built.
The job market for freshly graduating STEM folks is very hot currently. My D2 (studying Mech Eng) was very specific of what she wanted to do post-graduation. When her final internship company (very well-known and large employer) could not provide any such guarantees, she chose not to accept their job offer. She has preferred to take up a different route and chose a Business Consulting firm’s job offer.
Also, 80-85K is not the same in the Bay Area as it is in Boston. I work in the Bay Area and salaries start at six figures for the most talented fresh grads and large employers. So please do your own math.
Remember there are “dead end jobs” at all the big software companies, and Google has bought so many companies around the globe, that there is not one cohesive culture anymore. There are a variety of cultures for women too, in all the companies you mention. Insurance is not really known though for early adopting of software, and may not lead to a job in her area of interest, without a masters degree.
If she is leaning towards a masters degree, later, that could give her the skills she needs in AI/ML. Look at GaTech, many on line programs and they have a large masters program.
Home Depot is hiring a lot of computer scientists/software engineers , in Atlanta, and very similar challenges to Amazon, with on line buying software, data collection, targeted marketing etc.
Has she considered one of Big 4s as a consultant? It is a good way to work at many different companies and figure out which industry is most interesting to her.
Here you go for naive…who are the Big 4s? I’m quite sure she doesn’t know either.
It is really 5 these days. Accenture, Deloitte, E&Y, KPMG, and PWC. I don’t really see them as the best place to get the experience she wants, though. And while in the course of a career you see many companies, one can easily spend 12-18 months per client, so it takes a while to get that variety.
In early October of senior year I wouldn’t settle especially if she wants to do software. I used to work and hire in a software company and my spouse still does. Someone maintaining hacky code for a non-software company would be at a distinct hiring disadvantage for hiring into design and development of new software. The only way I would encourage it is if a non-tech company were hiring new staff for the explicit purpose of building new in house software.
This is a great time to jump into a start up. I had a fabulous time and learned so much at a couple of start ups in my 20’s. The finances were dicey at first but we are reaping the benefits of that risk now. My point in saying that is don’t be afraid to look off the beaten path. Not everything worth doing and working at is at Google et al.
I tend to agree with the idea that your daughter is in a seller’s market. She should not jump into a “safe” job at this point in her career, unless it is truly what she is interested in. My son accepted a job in October of his senior year, but it was exactly what he wanted, where he wanted, and at a very nice salary (well above 100k in CA).
Some insurance companies are at the forefront of data science and machine learning. So to put a general assumption isn’t necessarily a great idea.
To the OP, my oldest has a CS degree from UMass a couple of years ago, and that salary is pretty much in line with what he ended up at in the Boston area. Top salaries out here in Silicon Valley for the cream of the crop from Berkeley CS can easily be 150K+, average for CS majors is around $110K.
It is the case for more traditional IT work. People who are doing AI/ML and big data tend to get moved to shorter assignments. They are also required to do a lot of pitch work for new customers on top of their day jobs.
I don’t think any of them are at the forefront, maybe fast follower. My “generalization” is not assumption, but personal experience.
Just to clarify, the job is in Seattle not CA. We did check housing costs and they are lower than the Boston area from what I can tell. I did warn D that if she chose the Bay area her COL would be very high and thus the salary should be higher. Many of the jobs she was originally comparing salaries with were in that area so it was important that she understand the economic piece. Her first three choices for cities to work in are Boston, west of DC, and Seattle, all for various reasons but mostly because she has a support system in each of those areas.
First, she should feel confidence in the fact that she has a viable offer on the table (perhaps unlike some of her friends). The offer is in one of her choice locations and she may have the opportunity to work or get exposure to ML. Seattle is a great place to start a tech/CS career, and that may be the best way to look at a first job - a start.
Take a look at this video from Stanford’s Design School. It’s very interesting. A particularly relevant section (there are several) starts at 7:15…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKEq5iEmMSo
Just went through this (graduation last spring with CS/Math double major and Studio Art minor; job start mid Sep at one of the big tech companies often referenced as a dream job in CS).
Here are my thoughts:
The interview process for the big ones is brutal. Obviously, people get through and get hired, but your chances are slim, think getting into Harvard slim. You will code, and not just once. After the phone interview, there’ll be coding interviews via some sort of video chat and then live interviews, with more coding on site. I’m not saying don’t go for it, but if your daughter was uncomfortable with her experience before, she may not do well enough on interviews for the dream companies. I always think it’s foolish for a new grad to refuse to “settle” for anything less than a FANG.
A residency is sometimes an “exploding offer” because there are only so many spots in the program. Watched my own kid dropped midway through a process in July because all the spots filled.
You daughter has to know herself. Is she ok with uncertainty? Of being unemployed after graduation? If this is an issue for her she might be better with a bird in the hand, kwim? This is not a bad offer. It is easier to find a job when you have a job. Would this company or the insurance industry hold her back if she started a new search in a year? My daughter was working for a dairy. Didn’t seem to be a deterrent.
As a computer professional myself, I really don’t think that’s going to help her. If she’s bouncing around from position to position, she’s not going to establish a specialty, which is critical for her to start making money in a career. She should apply for a good entry level job. This will begin her on a path to career advancement. There are tons of specialties in IT/Computers.
I’m not sure companies are really bound by those recruiting rules. I know that we were making higher than market offers and students were just shopping them leaving us empty handed. Sorry, that’s no way to run a business.
We can’t compete with Google, Facebook or Amazon on compensation. We tell students who we like if they are interested in us, to let us know when we can make them a 48-72 hour exploding offer with no extensions. (to use blossom’s lingo). If you’re still shopping, shop without us tying up a spot. If you decide that you really like us and want to work here, let us know and if we still can, we will make it happen.
The thinking is that your first job ought to be one where you can grow your career and learn to specialize in areas that interest you. Money should be secondary.