<p>I would suggest asking the honors college for the data on where their students are hired, what graduate schools their students are accepted to and what national awards their students take. This will help give you an idea of how the honors college is viewed by companies/grad schools.</p>
<p>Thank you, Ryanashley, for starting this thread. And thank you posters for the thoughtful comments. Great food for thought.</p>
<p>Most of the discussion about the honors program has been about whether it would enhance opportunities after graduation. I’m more interested in what the program will do for the student while in school. Are the courses and classroom discussion really any better than the general courses? I think the answer to this depends on the school.</p>
<p>Thinking about the running at the front of the pack makes me think that my D will do best at a college with a fairly high caliber student. It is not that she wouldn’t make an effort otherwise, but rather that she is a little irked by classmates that only shuffle along. Also she likes to have a pacer-- someone she respects and can measure her performance against. I think there would be pacers in honors programs, but what about the non-honors courses?</p>
<p>I think spending $120,000 on education in ADDITION to being part of an Honors Program, and being a top student able to access the best mentors, research internships, and other opportunities is what would make the real difference.</p>
<p>Of course, if you aren’t willing to spend the $120k, (or would have the extra dough regardless of where student attended), the question is moot.</p>
<p>What a great forum. Thanks to all and I appreciate eveyone’s insights, advice and opinions. Again, his decision is a few weeks off as he waits for reponses from the other schools. However, the full tuition scholarship was totally unexpected and, despite other’s advice outside of this forum that he should simply accept the money, it appears that there are many other issues that need to be resolved before he decides.</p>
<p>Every circumstance is different, and the decisions have to be made for the situation. In our case, the (out-of-)state U. with a fantastic honors program just happened to be a great fit (only one we visited that my son’s body language said, ‘This is the place for me!’), was the financial safety (very close to full out-of-state tuition ride), and had the well-respected program that he wanted. Note that the program (E.W. Scripps School of Communications) was highly ranked (top 10), but not necessarily the university. So our choice was easy.</p>
<p>Watching my friends’ kids come out of school with student debts of varying amounts makes me glad we made the choice we did.</p>
<p>Honors opportunities vary from school to school. We were lucky enough that the one my son got accepted to was excellent - all of the usual perks like early registration, and so on, but also intense personal attention, financial help with his out-of-curricula projects, and very small classes, including many one-on-one classes with professors in his major.</p>
<p>We originally thought we’d be able to afford a $40K yearly bill, but during his time in school, things changed. I was out of work for over 6 months, and then we got caught up lately in the housing crisis. I am forever grateful that he took the option he did.</p>
<p>But there is no one answer on this.</p>
<p>And one more thing to consider… a great university has some great students, but your kid’s “circle” will be a certain size no matter the size of the school. A large university may have a much smaller percentage of “great” students, but there is still more than enough to fill that “circle” of associates and friends. Perhaps the best thing that has happened with my son is the group of unbelievably talented students that he has as friends/associates.</p>
<p>DS is in the same position as the OP with a slight twist. DS is also a recruited athlete (not football or basketball). He met the coaches of the D3 small (Almost Ivy) selective private school during his summer visit. He admitted he got choked up at the thought of not being able to attend that school. He fell in love with the campus and could see himself there. He is very comfortable with the coaching staff and has stayed in contact with them throughout his senior year. As a NMF he has full offers from respected state universities. He has been accepted into the Honors programs at both schools. His interests are in Applied Mathematics and Statistics. He is confident that he will continue school seeking a Phd.<br>
The state univ. in question only became a saftey because of the academic full ride, computer plus two summer trips abroad. He never even contacted the coaching staff at the state univ. The state univ. has a very successful athletic team in his particular sport. </p>
<p>DS recieved a wonderful scholarship from the “dream” school but it will still cost an additional $25,000 per year. We also have a soph. at a top state univ. and a highschool freshman. DS is having to decide if he really wants us to incur the undergrad debt. </p>
<p>DS decided to revisit the “dream” school and check out the state univ. in question before he would rule either school out. A key factor in his decision will be the dynamics and comradery of his future teammates. He has applied to other schools but we are still waiting on their financial aid/scholarshhip packages. DS and I are planning the spring break visits already.</p>
<p>Hi everyone- I am back- well at least hello to anyone that remembers me from 2003-2004…and if you do you may remember our S turned down some decent LAC’s for a state U…what have we learned in 4 years?.. Well much of what Blossom stated in her post but a real truism and that is: It is what you make it. </p>
<p>The State U’s have enormous resources, internships and connections to many companies or graduates schools as the grad schools and companies are required to meet diversity needs so they welcome excellent state U students. Having said that I also agree with Blossom that if you think that some HR departments or companies are not biased toward a certain type of candidate then you are dreaming. The company I work with hires 25 interns a year and invariably at least 50% come from the same school. Why? most of top management attended the college. Being from a top school and having excellent grades etc will not help much against this type of ,dare I say it “nepotism”… however I have also witnessed students in my son’s class that embraced the big school and became “big fish in a big pond” they took advantage of every resource that the school has to offer and leveraged it to Ivy grad schools, major corporations or internships wherein most people would assume they accomplished these feats by being valedictorian or by attending a top ten Ivy college.</p>
<p>Therefore, it is up to the student to leverage the resources to their advantage and to learn all they can while they attend college.</p>
<p>Be a big fish in a big pond…my son chose to be a small fish in a big pond right from the start so we decided to invest appropriately based on his motivational level, interest, etc. It turns out that his choice of attending a state school was the best decision he made and we made. Albeit purely from a financial point of view and while one should not look at college from such a fiscally strict point of view it has allowed us to save some money for his sister’s education who apparently is motivated and loves the entire college enchilada…So given that our D is a junior in HS I will be visiting all of you wonderful people on the CC boards again to bounce many ideas off you and mainly to hear different points of view regarding the college process. Thanks to all!</p>
<p>
I love the concept of a pacer. I’ll steal it and say it’s mine. 
</p>
<p>My D would call those pacers a “critical mass”. Someone to push and someone to push her. ( In high school she said she had 3 people to talk to about things in math and science. 3. ) D is very satisfied that her school has plenty of pacers. She thinks about her school mates ( at a small USNWR 50ish LAC ) this way : </p>
<p>20% are as smart as any students I’ve ever been around at any scholarship competition even at top twenty schools. There are some real stars. 60% are the kids in high school that were in Honors and APs and cared alot about their studies and grades. Good students but they are not going to set the curve. And the other 20% ain’t dumb. Everybody works hard for their grades or they don’t make it. </p>
<p>When she compares her school to top ranked schools (using only CDS statistics) she says the top kids are interchangeable as all of her top schoolmates got into top schools, too. (Her year-Yale, Duke,Vandy, Amherst, etc and almost full and full-rides at other great schools.) Below that? Well, compared to the top schools there is a steeper dropoff to where the middle half of her school would be the bottom half at a Top Twenty (even lower than that at a tip of the top school). I think her surmises and conjectures are born out by comparing the CDS of her school and the top schools. (I’ve done it and it is pretty spot on. D just relied on her gut.) </p>
<p>And that means that at any one time there are 300 kids at school on 100 acres that she considers National caliber “Top Students”. That’s 3 per acre. She finds that is enough for a critical mass to exist. Some would need more. Some would need less. </p>
<p>Running from the front and being able to still set your best time doesn’t mean you’ll always be first, or even ever be first. It just means you can do your best running from the front. As always, JMO.</p>
<p>And the extra money might mean you can do it on wings and wheels. ;)</p>
<p>OT:</p>
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<p>mom58,
Oh and as to being irked, my D was interviewed by our regional paper in the 8th grade. The question asked was : What bothers you the most? Her response: People who don’t try their hardest. :eek: (LOL. She sure is wired funny. Sounds like you may have one , too. Not that easy to raise , are they?)</p>