TAP bashing, just kidding... or am I?

Transfer Students UC Transfers
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<p>It's not that I hate TAP. I just think its unfair at times. My application to UCLA is nothing short of competitive... high gpa, some work experience, military service... but I'm sitting here sweating bullets when I shouldn't be, all because of TAP. I don't know much about the honors program. I do know however that it takes a lot of time. Time that I, and many others don't have. </p>

<p>Full course loads every semester (of honors courses restricted to certain times), some community service etc. this is all good for those who have the time to do it. However many simply do not and they are made to suffer for it.
And it's not as if honors classes are all that hard either. I've taken an honors course under the honors coordinator himself and it was a breeze. I can't imagine it being any more difficult than the "normal" course.</p>

<p>I do realize that many people on this board are TAP certified, and believe me I respect that. I'm sure it wasn't as easy as I make it out to be. Many of you probably achieved certification while working full time jobs. </p>

<p>I just think that it's not fair that those who don't work, don't have other responsibilities, are nearly guaranteed admission into UCLA with relatively laughable GPA's. Merely as a result of having TAP stamped onto their applications...
Anyone agree? or should I just go away and never return? :)</p>

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<p>Seeing as TAP was the only part where I had to write serious papers, I'd say that they aren't supposed to be strenuous as much as an indicator that one can do upper-division work. Seeing as it needs a 3.5 at least, then it's not as though they're getting away with murder.</p>

<p>But if your application is competitive without TAP, then what are you worrying about?</p>

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<p>If you have TAP you have priority over the Fast Pass line at Disneyland</p>

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<p>They'll even make sure you're not going to hurt yourself.</p>

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<p>would u rather have a 3.65 say w/o TAP or a 3.45 with TAP :P
both with IGETC</p>

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<p>3.5 and tap what do u think the chances are for Biz Econ???</p>

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<p>I think it's hard to draw such general conclusions about a program that affects each participant in a different way. </p>

<p>By NO MEANS will I say all TAP applicants / participants have worked harder than, or even on the same level as many normal applicants. However, the best I can do is outline my situation, as I'm probably an outlier amongst TAP applicants. The main point in doing so is to prove that TAP isn't just an easy "cut into the front of the line" type pass. </p>

<p>First of all, like many CC students, I work 35ish hours per week. I make good money, but I use almost all of it to pay rent for myself, my grandma, my mom, and my sister. Does that automatically make me a saint? No.</p>

<p>Next, I use the $200 I have left after paying rent every month to pay for gas commuting from Fremont to De Anza & Foothill; I borrow my mom's Prius so that leaves me about $50 a month to eat out and whatnot. Why go to De Anza AND Foothill? Because I want UCLA bad enough to the extent that I'm willing to take classes at Foothill SOLELY for TAP. Prior to the Winter quarter, I completed IGETC and my major prereqs with a 3.72 (unfortunately, most of my B's were in major prereqs). </p>

<p>Now here's the interesting part: I've been trying to be a part of Foothill's honors/TAP program since Winter quarter '07 (my 2nd quarter of community college). I had been working with administrators and advisors to organize my coursework for the program, but work was constantly getting in the way. So instead, I signed up for my first honors courses last quarter, with the honors administrator's approval--or so I thought.</p>

<p>Enter: Winter 08. I was enrolled in three 5 unit honors classes at Foothill and one 4 unit history class at De Anza. About three weeks into the quarter, I sporadically decided to check in with the honors institute to make sure I was on track. That's when they hit me with the news: I was informed that I was ineligible for TAP certification. The same people I had been working with suddenly 180'd and told me that I hadn't elicited to be a part of Foothill's academic community. They told me that I was taking advantage of the system. Suddenly my hard earned money and time was wasted in pointless classes. But I didn't give in. In desperation, I wrote emails like a madman--I was on my knees BEGGING for an opportunity. It was a painful and trying process, but they let me in on a probationary status (I would have administrators breathing down my neck for my remaining time at Foothill). </p>

<p>With this renewed opportunity, I COULDN'T let myself fail and I had to maintain above a 3.5 in my honors classes. Between work and other issues I worked incredibly hard to achieve the grades I did. Just to gauge the difficulty of one of my classes: the quarter started off with about 30-35 students, and at the final there were only 15 or so left. I pulled off a 3.9 in these classes, and for the first time, I learned what I was made of, at least in terms of academics. </p>

<p>That's my tap story.</p>

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<p>my political science class started off with 40 and now is down to 20
but it is by no means hard nor honors</p>

<p>for UCLA it says almost 300 ppl got in from de anza and not so many from foothill
I wonder how many of those did TAP at foothill/elsewhere?</p>

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<p>At Mt. Sac we usually get about 90% of the TAP applicants getting accepted into UCLA</p>

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<p>Op:
Would you bash the advantage that high school AP classes (those that can invest the time to do them) have in college admissions?</p>

<p>Give the application readers some credit and take into account UCLA's 'holistic' policy--they won't just plug in your application into a machine and let it decide if you're in or not. However, I hope you made very clear in your application all of the circumstances that make you the unique applicant you know you are.</p>

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<p>poppin3000 I want to be in your boat, I think we've spoke briefly about what it takes to be dedicated for UCLA, I want to move 90 miles away, your already doing it, is it worth it? we'll see when the notice saying we are accepted or not. It also could benefit your essays. </p>

<p>GL to who get in to UCLA go Bruins Final four baby.</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>You stated yourself you don't anything about the TAP program besides it taking up time, so you should shut up right there.</p></li>
<li><p>TAP only takes 6 - 3 Unit Semester classes or even less if you take 4 unit classes, you could have easily incorporated TAP Classes in your so called "full course load" ever semester.</p></li>
<li><p>It's your own fault you didn't look into this enough so don't blame the people who took the time do to TAP.</p></li>
</ol>

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<ol>
<li><p>I really take issue with your tone lilxlazyxboi. You don't know what sorts of issues are preventing oorah87 from attempting TAP. He/she never said that they didn't take TAP out of laziness, but because they have other obligations in life. Oorah87 made a suggestion and you decided to attack him/her personally. What is that saying about you?</p></li>
<li><p>When I was in community college, I worked 38+ hours per week on top of taking 12-13 units per semester. Every single bit of my spare time was spent doing homework, including my lunches and breaks. While I worked an 8-5 job, all of the honors classes were offered during the day. It was literally impossible for me to fulfill the honors requirements for TAP, not to mention my ridiculous work load was already taking a toll on my health. To say that it would be "easy" to incorporate TAP into my schedule is, frankly, quite insulting. </p></li>
<li><p>Yes, it is my fault that I had to work full time while going to school. Lazy people like me should suffer...right. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Don't forget that oorah also (quite politely) said:

[QUOTE]
I do realize that many people on this board are TAP certified, and believe me I respect that. I'm sure it wasn't as easy as I make it out to be. Many of you probably achieved certification while working full time jobs.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Aren't you the one getting a little defensive? Perhaps you fear that there is some truth to oorah's statement...</p>

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<p>I usually refrain from "I agree" posts, but I think karabear said what needed to be said, and said everything that needed to be said.</p>

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<p>lilxlazyxboi. I don't think you read my post carefully enough. I suppose the thread title is to blame.. And KGZotu is right, karabear1 said all that needs to be said.</p>

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<p>I disagree slightly with the OP in his implication, perhaps unintentional, that being TAP certified is some sort of crutch or fallback option. Most of the people who are TAP certified are so because they want to maximize their chances at being accepted; the same can be said of the fact that you have work experience. Strangely enough, you do not see threads with people saying, "My application to UCLA is nothing short of competitive, I have a good GPA, i'm TAP certified, but i'm sweating bullets, and it's because of these people with work experience!" Getting TAP certified is simply a different allocation of time and effort, and to imply that that it is anything other than that is being oversimplistic. But I don't think you have to leave and never return haha.</p>

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<p>LOL, I seem to be getting more flack than that guy that called all the UCLA girls hoodrats or whatever. I am entitled to my opinion as you are with yours.
Perhaps I was getting slightly defensive, as everyone starts to question if they will get into UCLA or not. I'm pretty confident I will get in though.</p>

<p>I never put that much thought into my initial post as you did karabear1</p>

<p>but this particular section irked me about oorah87
"I just think that it's not fair that those who don't work, don't have other responsibilities, are nearly guaranteed admission into UCLA with relatively laughable GPA's. Merely as a result of having TAP stamped onto their applications...
Anyone agree? or should I just go away and never return?"</p>

<p>That's such a broad statement, how many TAP applicants do you even know?</p>

<p>Quit complaining, if you got rejected from UCLA then you just didn't make the cut.
Don't blame TAP, blame yourself. It's blunt, but I find it to be truthful. Everyone has their own individual circumstances, if you got a bad roll of the dice, get over it.</p>

<p>@karabear1</p>

<p>I don't see any suggestions oorah87 made, just petty complaining as he fears that he might get rejected from UCLA and has to find something like TAP to bag on. </p>

<p>I incorporated TAP into my spring 06 and fall 07 schedules. I had 16 hour days on tuesday and thursday (10-12 hours mon+wed, pending some factors), still made time for church on friday and sundays. Just guessing I probably work as hard as you do, although I don't over do it to the point where it affects my health, that's just ridiculous. I don't know what you're situation is, but if you can't healthily balance school and work well, choose one over the other. If you can't find a job with flexibility around your school schedule than that's your own fault karabear1. You never have to "work full time and go to school" that's simply your own personal choice.</p>

<p>There's much more I COULD elaborate upon this post, but I fail to see the reason to make this anymore longer because I limit myself 5 minutes for meaningless forum arguments :D.</p>

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<p>I have to add that my feelings on TAP are pretty mixed as well.</p>

<p>I recognize that everybody has a different way of getting to where they need to be, and some people have higher workloads than others. Not everyone difficult circumstances to overcome which they can use in their personal statements. Instead of working full time and taking "regular classes", many people do community service, clubs, and TAP in order to create a well rounded application. I appreciate that there are many ways to make your application stand out, and TAP is just one of those ways. </p>

<p>Yet, I did find myself feeling a little resentful sometimes at the opportunities which were offered TAP students and denied to me simply because I worked during the day. It seemed that better counseling, scholarship opportunities, and networking opportunities were not accessible to me as they were to honors students. </p>

<p>This issue for me wasn't that I felt that I couldn't get in without TAP. In fact, I felt pretty confident that I was going to get into both Berkeley and UCLA without TAP simply because I did so well under my difficult circumstances.
Instead, it was that too many resources were concentrated into the honors program while ignoring the needs of reentry students and those who were required to work during the day. </p>

<p>This fact really hit me when I got a scholarship from my community college and attended the awards ceremony. EVERYONE knew each other because they were all in honors. In addition, the awards committee knew all of the recipients, except for me. I wonder how many hard working non-honors students are denied these opportunities because they are not told about them and don't have the right connections? </p>

<p>I certainly am not implying that TAP people are lazy. It has just been my experience that the system is not really designed for non-traditional students. I would like to see other ways (in addition to TAP) in which students can access similar opportunities.</p>

<p>Like it or hate it, that's my opinion.</p>

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<p>I understand your opionion, but your post didn't give me any revelations to why you couldn't adjust your work schedule for school, which is much more important, no matter what the circumstances.</p>

<p>Anyways, everything aside I hope the best for you on admission decision day, just wondering what your statistics are + major?</p>

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<p>Sigh...</p>

<p>I don't think you understand that many people are living under a complex array of issues which don't allow them the same "choices" as you have. Working full time was not my choice. At that time, I was living with a lot of baggage from my past, as many people end up doing as they have to deal with what life hands them. I took full responsibility for that baggage by deciding to make my life very difficult for a few years so that I could live a better future. Because I worked full time in community college, I was able to pay off bills and quite my job in time to transfer. </p>

<p>The fact that I decided to take on this burden is never something I complained about in my post. I am proud of my accomplishments and don't regret it a bit. What I don't understand is why you are judging me? When did I ever make this a comparison of work statistics? You were the one that insinuated people who work full time are lazy because they are not able to take honors classes. </p>

<p>I understand that you work hard (and I am not suggesting otherwise), but being able to work 16 hours per week and have a flexible schedule allows you many opportunities that are not accessible to others. I just want you to understand this before you start condemning people for something which is beyond their control.</p>