Test scores too low for Ivies?

Hi all,

I am an international applicant from the UK (I am going for the top 10 US universities). I am aware that my GCSEs (12A), A Level predictions (4A) and SAT 2 (Maths 2 800/ Physics 790) are good enough. However my standardised test scores are on the lower end. I am applying to major in Maths.

ACT:

33 Composite
34 English
35 Math
27 Reading
35 Science
10 Essay

SAT:

1490
800 Maths
690 English
20 Essay

Should I retake any of these tests in December or am I already past the threshold?

There are no thresholds and we have no way of knowing how the admission board looking at your record will evaluate it. Your scores don’t get you thrown out of consideration but they also don’t guarantee anything.

You are past the “threshold” but you are right at or maybe slightly below the median for the “Ivies” – you need to check the Common Data Set and admissions webpages for the schools you will be applying to. Generally, admissions rates for internationals are lower than for domestics, so set your expectations accordingly and consider schools where you will be above the median. I am not sure going from a 33 to a 34 or a 1490 to a 1540 is going to move you from 1 pile to another, but if your essays are in good shape, and you think you can easily improve your reading score for the ACT or the English score for the SAT, it’s worth a shot. Note most schools will superscore the SAT but not the ACT, so I might go with the SAT vs the ACT since you have already max’d out on Math.

@“Erin’s Dad” Thanks for your reply. Would my low reading scores be looked down upon heavily? In my application I have outlined several strong ECs at national level and original reasearch work in maths/sciences, so I would assume the admissions teams would look more at my maths scores. Am I wrong in thinking this?

@BKSquared Thanks for your reply too. Would you happen to know if internationals whose first language is not English would be given leeway on the English sections or is this not taken into account?

You should make no such assumption. None of us are AO’s, so we don’t know the secret handshake, but IMO, a 1490 (690/800) is viewed differently than a 1490 (740/750).

But anyway, I think you are past the threshold. Would I personally be more comfortable with a 1500+ or a 34? Yes. Will the extra point(s) make or break? Maybe not, particularly if your essays are stellar. But if I were applying to colleges again, I would want to do everything I could to ensure my package was as strong as possible.

^^ If you are “pointy” in the sciences and math, and English is clearly not your first language, I would think that would be noted in any “holistic” evaluation. The “Ivies” are a reach for domestic students with perfect/almost perfect academic records and test scores and solid/outstanding EC’s, so like I mentioned above, temper your expectations and if going to school in the US is important, cast your net wider. If finances are an issue, make sure you have researched schools that are need blind and need met.

@skieurope Thanks for your reply, it is very informative. When you say viewed differently do you mean looked down upon? Or just considered in a different manner with respect to the candidate? I have applied early to Harvard and felt my essays, especially my optional one, were particularly strong so I dont think that is my main concern. Would you agree with @BKSquared that if I retake one of the tests it should be the SAT?

@BKSquared I appreciate that the fact that admissions to US schools are very competitive but compared to the UK safety and match schools are more expensive. I am therefore applying just to reach ones in the US but a variety in the UK. I do appreciate your concern though.

Your test scores are great. The 33 on the ACT and the 1490 will not make your application be rejected. You have a competitive profile.

You have the statistics to be able to buy a lottery ticket and apply to the top 10 schools, but be advised that this is a lottery ticket and plenty of people play the lottery and end up losing money, every day. You need to have a solid backup plan in place in case all of your top 10 applications end up Not A Winner.

And honestly, the top 10 schools in the US are all very different from one another and it’s possible that you might be happy at many of them but miserable in others. You seem a technical type, you might want to dip into the next 20 schools for technical education, or look at prestigious liberal arts colleges where you’d be a standout and perhaps attract more merit aid. You don’t have the luxury of campus visits, probably, but you should be able to look through their websites and see the differences begin to gel.

If you think you can do much better and have the time (34+/1530+) then definitely retake

Not “looked down upon” just viewed “differently.” I don’t disagree with @BKSquared that the application will be viewed holistically, but one also needs to be pragmatic; acceptance rates for international applicants is about half the overall rate, and more international applicants will be “pointy” towards the STEM end versus the humanities end, so your stats are not unique.

Again, your stats are great, so it’s not a death knell. Will it result in an acceptance though? IDK. All that said, there are plenty of universities outside of the top 10 which will provide a great education, so regardless of your decision to retake or not, cast your net wider.

Hey I’m also a UK applicant (School in Essex Area) and applying this year. What are your extra curriculars like?

Thank you all for your replies @doorrealthe , @ninakatarina , @kiran2510 , @skieurope, I have decided that I am retaking the ACT in december. I really appreciate the help :slight_smile:

Hi @Jay3030, did you apply early anywhere btw? My extracurriculars are

  • Carrying out original research and writing a paper - in the process of trying to publish it right now
  • Maths team captain and distinction in the BMO (National competition, you might know it) last year
  • Basketball team captain
  • Volunteering on Saturdays at oxfam every week (3-4 years)
  • Volunteering to teach maths at local primary school weekly (2 years)
  • In the holidays I work on rebuilding my 1981 VW Golf Mk1 which is a long term project of mine

I am also prefect at my school i dont know if that counts for anything lol

What about you?

Nice @Benfica ! I didn’t apply early cause I wanted to focus on UCAS which is more important for me. I’m applying to Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Stanford. I’m applying this year to major in Economics

Tbh I’m also worried about my SAT scores being weak. I got 1510 with 800 in maths and 710 in English. I also have 800 in SAT 2 Chem and maths. I’m contemplating redoing the SAT 1, but the exams are rarely the make or break of an application.

My ECS are:
-Won an international essay comp
-Came top 10 in another international essay comp
-Won UK National trade fair for young enterprise (business startups)
-President for my school’s Economics society and Editor in chief of the economics journal
-3 ABRSM grade 8s in violin guitar and piano
-Got accepted and now study in a world leading music conservatoire
-Got accepted into the junior orchestra which performs with the LSO in quite a few nice places
-Medals at a number of British Tae Kwon Do Championships
-Senior prefect, mentor four subjects, head or charities committee and chair of school council

If you wanna find out about other applicants. You can go on the student room if you’ve heard of that? Where are you applying to in the UK and any offers yet?

@Jay3030 Ohhh right fair enough, what unis are you applying for/got offers in uk?

I have applied for straight maths at Oxford (havent started giving out interviews yet/waiting for mat score), Imperial (waiting for mat score), UCL (offer), Warwick (offer), Bristol (offer).

Those are also great scores and nice ECs!
Do you have a link for the thread on tsr? I looked on there and couldnt find a thread for 2018 applicants :frowning:

@Benfica Yeah it says I cant really post links here. Try and go on TSR: forum > University and HE colleges > Studying in North America. It should all be there. I have Warwick/UCL offers and cambridge/lse/durham are yet to give out economics offers :slight_smile: