<p>Hello everyone,</p>
<p>I am new to this forum, and I would like to ask something about USMA. I was looking on their website and it said their present classes had scores of 21-25 on their ACT; also they had scores in the 500's on the SAT. If I was in that range, with varsity swimming, some leadership experiences(Retreat Leader, High School "Orientator", and Swim Team Captain) member of the German Club, Tutor, and a B average; what are my chances for getting into "the Beast"?</p>
<p>500's seems aweful low.</p>
<p>No sorry, I mean individually, for math, english, verbal. Look at the website under admissions, it shows the current class profile.</p>
<p>Both 500 SAT and 21-25 ACT are very low. My son got is appointment
with 750 SAT and 32 ACT. I suggest you don't look at the minimuns for
any aspect of 'getting into the beast". The beast is a very difficult basic training 6 week course. Then you must spend 4 hard years getting an excellent education with a degree and at least a minor in engineering. Strive for excellence in both academics and physical training. Good luck - you are setting high goals - you can do it only after you have put yourself through some tuff High School classes and sports. Be sure to include a few AP courses also. USMA is not looking for "average students" . Apply yourself and reach your goal, all the best to you and again good luck.</p>
<p>Well if "the beast" isn't looking for "average" people, then why are 20-30% of present classes in that range? Let me give you a link....<a href="http://admissions.usma.edu/MoreInfo/classprofile.cfm%5B/url%5D">http://admissions.usma.edu/MoreInfo/classprofile.cfm</a></p>
<p>I e-mailed the admissions director and he said this was the information from the actual class not the applicants!</p>
<p>By the way you can look at class of 2009's profile and the test scores go down even more.</p>
<p>Even if those people got in, doesn't mean that's necessarily adequate. USMA is looking for outstanding individuals. Sometimes there aren't enough outstanding individuals up to the challenge, and frankly, they just move down the ladder. Don't be a couple rungs down just because you thought that was "good enough." If that's where you're at now... that's fine. Just keep moving forward, try to move to excellence. Really, if you're working your hardest they can't expect much more. Even if your first couple years were lackluster, make it up by showing excellence in the next year(s). WP will see this and it means a lot. Work hard to bring those test scores up. You can find a lot of info about how to do that on some of the other sections of this forum. Just always make sure that WP will not look at your file and say "well, I suppose he's good enough." If you want to go to WP, then make sure you're the best.</p>
<p>But that's just me.</p>
<p>Just one point to note ironjohn: those numbers on the low end may be reflectiong candidates with EXTRAORDINARILY outstanding grades, top 1% in class, or even recruited atheletes or candidates with long military family histories or who knows what. I would heed the advice of wpwannebe -- it's very sound.</p>
<p>ironjohn,</p>
<p>Other posters are correct. You have a nice profile, and you have a terrific opportunity to improve it. Do all the necessary prep work to improve both your SAT and ACT scores. Take the tests several times as Admissions looks at the highest score in each section. Take the toughest math and science classes you can. If at all possible, take AP Chemistry which will help to reduce a major stressor during plebe year. I have met quite a few plebes and they include people with a 36 on the ACT, as well as several who had 1400+ and 1500+ SAT scores. In addition, there are many who had 10+ AP classes with very high gpa's and class ranks. I say this not to discourage you, but because if you are not one of the recruited athletes or military-connected appointees you will find that those numbers will shift up dramatically. You will be competing with the candidates whose scores/grades will be stronger than the figures quoted on the website.</p>
<p>If you are a junior, then you will have the summer to do a lot of prep work. You may also want to reach out to the swim coach. If you are a sophomore now, then you can look forward to applying to SLS next summer. Welcome to cc. I look forward to offering you congratulations on your appointment in the future.</p>
<p>I remember at the atheletic recruiting meeting at SLS the coaches were saying that there is only so much they can do. I wish I could remember exactly, but they were saying even the recruited football players needed a .... sat score. I do know it was more than 500's though. I would definetly work to improve atleast to 600's. Not that big of a push I think.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that it's not just about "getting in" but "staying in". What you don't see in these statistics is what the avg sat/act scores are of those who actually made it through the first year of academics--I don't know what those stats are but it would be interesting to see. West Point is looking for extremely well-rounded individuals, more so than any other college in the nation other than the other service academies. Ask 80% of the kids at Stanford to pass the physical fitness and medical tests that West Point candidates have to endure and most of them wouldn't get into the academy either, regardless of their academic qualifications. I think that if you get in you will find the academics at the academy more than enough to stimulate you. West Point is 4th in the total number of Rhodes Scholars among US colleges and universities. That should tell you something.</p>
<p>ironjohn, I don't think your seeing the whole picture of the ACT/SAT scores statistics. If you look at the percentages of those scoring between 21-25 on ACT they are all very low 13% 18% etc. The more realistic numbers are in the 26-30 range representing more than 50% of the class and you can go even farther to prove this by looking at the mean scores. 29 29 28 and 30 respectively. So like everyone else has been saying, unless you are a star athlete then those are the scores you need to shoot for. When looking at class stats only look at the top line for setting your standards don't worry about the rest.</p>
<p>Well I am trying my best to get test scores and my gpa up, I am using march 2 success and other study programs (at school, etc) to improve my test scores. I am trying to get as involved as possible, working around my swimming and school schedule. Thanks for all your help/support guys! BTW I am a junior and I will be taking the upcoming SAT and ACT tests this April and Iam hoping to move up the ladder.</p>
<p>ps I don't know if this will help, but my school is very competitive, the top 1/5th of my class is going to like MIT, Havard, Yale, etc, some even next year.</p>
<p>pps would joining the smp program this summer help me get into WP?</p>
<p>not sure what this 'smp program' is, are you referring to the Summer Leadership Seminars at the academies? Its been disputed as to wether or not the Summer Seminars actually help your chances of admissions or not but it deffinately does not hurt you so yes you should do everything you can to get into one of these if its not already to late. What were your PSAT scores?</p>
<p>no not the summer leadership program, smp is the delayed entry program with the reserves, so I would just train and stuff on a post until college. This is all happening over the weekends while I would be in high school.</p>
<p>my psat scores aren't that great: percentile wise I am 55% in the US.</p>
<p>I got a 49 on reading 54 on math and 50 on verbal</p>
<p>just because the bottom 13% scored ACT scores below 26 doesnt mean you can go get a 23 on the ACT and plan on sneaking into the bottom of the admit pool... the people who have the low test scores definitely have something else going for them, like being a prepster, prior enlisted, minority, recruited athlete, etc.</p>
<p>Yes, so if I enlisted into the delayed entry program, that would give me a better chance of getting in? For instance this summer, I would go through Basic, then work at my post, while in high school, until I went off to college. So there would be no way for be deployed.</p>
<p>when you get rejected from usma will you be fine with being enlisted?</p>
<p>No it doesn't work like that, and USMA isn't my only choice, I have alternatives. There is a thing called ROTC, you know, WP isn't the only college with it. SMP is a program where you are trained for the army, and work until you go off to colllege.</p>
<p>WP doesnt have rotc i dont think. are you being sarcrastic, you know?</p>
<p>and im trying to read up on smp... it looks like its a reserve/guard commissioning program... just like rotc doesnt make you prior enlisted, i would imagine smp wouldn't either.</p>
<p>it looks like you enlist in the ang/ar, then go to college so you are in the reserves but do rotc. if you enlist in the ang/ar, i think that helps according to 8izenuff.</p>
<p>i see that you live in nebraska... that probably helps. I remember reading about how noncompetitve the dakotas are, and NE is close enough to spit on. The thing about 8izenuff's appointment and being in the reserves (i think) is that he was given a principal nomination, so it wasnt the academy that decided he should be there. Being involved in something like rotc or the reserves can show that you are committed, and thats good.</p>
<p>for now you should be concentrating on gettign good grades (b average isnt good for west point), beating the ACT/SAT (you dont want to be in that 21-25 range), and getting some more leadership positions (president, founder, vice president, etc... member isn't worth much).</p>