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<p>? They have that freedom.</p>
<p>Mizz Bee, thanks, that’s very interesting, I had no idea. Do you think fraternities are similar?</p>
<p>By round do you mean a round in the computer, or is there an actual event that is a round?</p>
<p>This sounds just like trying to find a placement in a NYC high school!</p>
<p>At D1’s school they do not need recs, legacies are given special consideration, but they are cut early on if a sorority is not the right fit. </p>
<p>MizzBee - I don’t think it is really true that the first cut is done after 15-20 minutes at the house. Truth of the matter is that most of those girls were checked out before the rush, they have been stalked on FB by the sisters, and some of those girls could be “hot recruits” for a house. They would often be matched up with the right people to speak with (sisters with similar ECs, major, hometown). Rush week is a well organized and rehearsed event for a sorority, no different than job recruitment.</p>
<p>So right Lakemom, and this used to be done by hand by alums, working long hours into the night. In the old days they would start with a list and yell out Suzy PNM? And each goup would check the list individually. Thank heavens for computers. Now not every campus will use this system, but all the large schools do (with the exception of IU). That is why at really big schools you don’t here as much about struggling houses. Every chapter has the chance to fill their pledge classes. Now if Suzy PNM decides it is better to be independent than to join ABC, then the class will be smaller. In the same vein, these young women spend less than 3 hours with the women in the chapter before the decision is made. The chapters have 300 women. Those that drop because she didn’t “see herself” fitting in (after meeting maybe 1/8th of the chapter) get no sympathy from me. I say join ABC, get to know the people better and if you still feel like it is not your place, don’t initiate. If Greek life is about sisterhood and friendship, it won’t matter if your house is not considered the prettiest or the richest. If you just want the letters, then you run the risk of not getting those letters. Of course, that is a hard thing to here at 18. It is also difficult at some schools where the PNM does everything right and still doesn’t make it to pref. It is hard to swallow. Hopefully you will see that it is not about a bunch of girls sitting around saying Suzy has cheap shoes, cut her. And it is heartbreaking to make a list only to see your favorite PNMs not returning because they ranked your house dead last. Luckily RFM makes it much more likely that you will get placed, and I believe that if you have the right attitude you will love where you land, just like attending a safety school. A year later you can’t see yourself anywhere else.</p>
<p>Very true Oldfort ^^^ In fact, it’s already happening and Spring semester isn’t even over yet…If you have a daughter that is planning to go through recruitment, I would tell her to make sure her Facebook page is cleaned up and that she is presented in a positive light.</p>
<p>Mizzbee…I agree with you 100%…the chapters are so large now that there has to be at least a few girls that one would connect with. I don’t buy the whole “I couldn’t see myself there” mentality. My daughter’s pledge class has 50 plus girls in it…surely out of the 50, one could find someone they could click with. Sorority recruitment is very much a mutual selection process and it goes both ways.</p>
<p>What is all this judging based on if it happens so quickly (plus Facebook checking). GPA, yes, but what else? Congeniality? Appearance? Major? Accomplishments? Hometown? All of that? How important is beauty?</p>
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<p>That was meant for any reader of this thread/anyone who tends to complain about certain colleges banning fraternity/sorority organizations and student memberships in them on grounds “it’s unconstitutional”, “violates students’ rights/freedoms”, etc. </p>
<p>Especially considering:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Students/parents can find out which colleges ban such organizations and/or students from being members in them and filter them out/include them for consideration as they see fit. </p></li>
<li><p>Even some public institutions have such bans…Federal Military Service Academies.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>redpoint, fraternity rush is completely different. Men are not required to visit all chapters, and can receive multiple bids. Now how they get those bids, I have no idea. I still imagine it is like in Animal House-with pictures on a screen and people saying yeah or nay. I could be wrong, though. And trust me, I have asked. I always get, we like the guy, we want to hang out with him, so we offer a bid. There are not campus requirements on quotas in most places and some chapters do fall and spring pledge classes. It’s all Greek to me 
As for a round, I mean a round of parties. During Round 1 each PNM will visit all 10 houses. Round 2 may be philanthropy round, where the houses will talk about the charity work and PNMs sometimes do silly craft projects for the charity. Round 3 may be house tours. In each round the number of invites is reduced through the ranking described. So you may go to 10 chapters in round 1, 8 chapters in round 2, 5 chapters in round 3 and 2 chapters at preference night. </p>
<p>oldfort, that is true at competitive places for sure, but in most places you leave room for surprises. Chapters will get names of the PNMs and yes they are looked up on fb. If you went to school with Suzy PNM, you will give your opinion of her (which is why I help people clean up their FB pages and discourage twitter). That also makes deferred recruitment a nightmare. That involves much more gossip. See, freshman Suzy PNM didn’t think twice about drinking too much her 1st weekend at college and hooing up with the cute guy at a party. She didn’t know that her girls gone wild behavior was seen by Alley Active. When Alley Active sees Suzy PNM at a recruitment party, she may mention that Suzy PNM could be seen as a risk, since she appeared to drink too much and engage in unbecoming behavior. Suzy may have only acted crazy that one time, but for that chapter, her chances were shot. Some may say that is not fair, but I beliee that actions have consequences.</p>
<p>At those parties, a successful PNM wins hearts and minds with her conversation skills, especially in the later rounds. If you are confident and have the gift o gab, it is all very easy. Appearance is important, but not necessarily beauty. A chapter wants someone who is poised, dresses well for their body type (a lost art with nuch of this generation) and who takes this seriously enough to dress up for the event. Women do well who remember that they are dressing to impress other women, not men, so short skirts and cleavage will not win any points. At some schools money and looks will be important, I am not going to lie. But at the chapters where I have advised (and where I pledged) winning personality was more important. I was not rich, did not have fancy shoes, but I can talk. </p>
<p>And hometown connections can be a really big deal, or nothing at all, depending on the campus. </p>
<p>If you look at pictures of various houses, not all girls are a size 2 wearing designer clothes, but you will not generally see someone looking ill-kempt. The actives in the house are looking for people to represent them but looks are only part of it. Pretty on the outside still may not make for a good sister if the PNM rhymes with witch. In most cases, you have to live with these women, and you need to trust them.</p>
<p>Redpoint…PNM’s are selected by all of the criteria that you mentioned, but I do not think that beauty is the most prominent. It depends on the chapter, but alot of the selection process is based on the PNM’s resume and what they can bring to the chapter…much like a job interview…grades, community service, and involvement in extracurricular activites. </p>
<p>Legacy status and who you know plays a huge part at alot of schools…those two criteria have nothing to do with how one “looks”.</p>
<p>Thought I’d check back in on this thread. Boy, has it exploded. As OP, I thought I’d report back with an update. My son went to his first frat event this weekend. Loved the house, thought the guys were all great, but knew it wasn’t a fit. He said that he would have to change who he was to fit in seamlessly, and he’s not interested in doing so. I always encourage him to listen to his gut, and that’s what he’s going to do. Now that he has found out a bit about who his three roommates in the dorm will be, he is now excited about that option. All honors students and 3 of the 4 are in the school of engineering like he will be. He even knows one of them from a week he spent at Boys State last summer and hit it off with him. Best of all, they come from all over the state.</p>
<p>Sounds like he knows himself, Smithview, and will make a good decision. Congratulations on raising a smart, down-to-earth kid.</p>
<p>"
What is all this judging based on if it happens so quickly (plus Facebook checking). GPA, yes, but what else? Congeniality? Appearance? Major? Accomplishments? Hometown? All of that? How important is beauty?"</p>
<p>Oh, pretty much the same thing that the kids in the dorm / dining hall judge one another on when deciding who they want to eat with, hang out with, etc. you talk to people and you decide who interests you enough that you want to get to know them better. Like any gathering.</p>
<p>It sounds like its a bit more involved than that, the way MizzBee describes it. I don’t ask to see someone’s resume or hear their list of accomplishments when I just meet them and am sharing a bite. It sounds more like a party/job interview, and it’s much more complex, and much more is at stake. But of course, different at different schools, so your mileage may vary.</p>
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<p>Ha! That’s one area Obies during my undergrad years prided themselves on not using as a factor…unless you were dressed in formal corporate wear(a.k.a. “Idiot suits” among my tech colleagues). Then again…unless you were a conservatory major…most prospective undergrads inclined towards corporate wear to class tend to reject the neo-hippie genuinely progressive radical-left vibe of the campus.* </p>
<p>If anything, judging others on their appearance/way they dress…especially using mainstream upper/upper-middle class corporate norms was a good way to get yourself harshly lectured to about “being sheep following the dictates of mindless conspicuous consumption encouraged by our capitalist overlords.” Sometimes, references to Marie Antoinette and the conspicuous consumption of ancien regime aristocrats at Versailles before the French Revolution would be substituted. </p>
<p>There was a reason why a parent quoted in the early '90s edition of the Fiske Guide’s entry on Oberlin College stated “Oberlin students go out of their way to dress ugly.” Thankfully, that also enabled me to get away with wearing hand-me-down clothes to save money for 4 years without anyone getting on my case about it. Heck, I even gotten a few high fives and praises for it. :D</p>
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<li>We actually had a student transfer in from Berkeley because he complained that “Berkeley was becoming too damned pre-professional and conservative” for him.</li>
</ul>
<p>In other words, you guys were equally as conformist – just to a different set of norms. Hipsters before your time.</p>
<p>Red point - actually I found rush excellent preparation for work interviewing situations. Same general principle. How to engage in small talk and put your best foot forward.</p>
<p>Cobrat, your college experience sounds exactly like mine. Some people were potential hipsters, but more like hippies because it was the 80s. Hipsters, also from what i understand actually spend a lot of money to look grungy. No one at my school had money, so maybe we were the real deal. Most people were not conformists, it was more like the island of misfits toys, but most of us grew up and did well. “The Geeks shall inherit the earth.”</p>
<p>I pledged a sorority at my small LAC back in the stone age, after being heavily recruited during upperclass rush. During my pledge time, I got an inside look at the sisterhood and was appalled at many of the behaviors. I really wanted to belong, though, and I went through with initiation. When freshman rush began I quit (can’t remember the proper term) and the biggest shock was not how all my beloved sisters stopped speaking to me, how the rush was calculated, racist (liberal use of the “n” word) and self-serving, but how many stopped at my dorm to say they, too, wanted to deactivate but didn’t want to go through the public pillory. Hopefully times are different.</p>
<p>But then again, maybe there’s improvement to be made:</p>
<p>[Attorney</a> urges tough charges in sorority hazing | News | CentreDaily.com](<a href=“http://www.centredaily.com/2012/05/02/3182430/attorney-urges-tough-charges.html]Attorney”>http://www.centredaily.com/2012/05/02/3182430/attorney-urges-tough-charges.html)</p>
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<p>Actually, our norms weren’t hipsterish as they definitely have their own fashion code and disdain others for not following it…even if it wasn’t corporate wear. </p>
<p>Our campus culture was more “to each their own” so long as it wasn’t corporate wear…unless you were a conservatory student. </p>
<p>Interestingly enough, Obie alums from my era and earlier are actually disturbed by the increasing “hipsterization trend” at our alma mater as their fashion codes/judgmental attitudes are just as restrictive from our perspective as those strictly expecting corporate wear in many corporations. </p>
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<p>That’s interesting as hipsters and grunge tend not to go together among hipsters I’ve observed/known in NYC neighborhoods where they dominate or among younger Obie alums. </p>
<p>If anything, they dress much more neatly/cleanly than Obies of my era and earlier did and are much more judgmental about others’ fashion choices…even those that aren’t corporate wear. Some older Obie alums I’ve encountered tend to consider them fashionistas of a different bent. Personally…I tend to view it as another sign of the increasing mainstreaming of my undergrad’s campus culture compared to the past. </p>
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<p>This coincided with the prevailing campus culture at my undergrad. </p>
<p>As for the “Geeks shall inherit the Earth”…agreed…but it sure seems the non-Geeks are fighting tooth and nail to resist it…as shown by some comments on this thread. :D</p>