I don’t think my D ever “competed” until she got into the youth orchestra. At the end of each season, she wanted to keep her place and move up to the higher level. But it was clear this was a matter of her efforts. At one point, she was first chair, then a new conductor moved her back. To the second-to-last row. Good lesson. She played through hs and college. Because she enjoyed it. She adored music camps, too. This was a family tradition of sorts, not some defect.
This is the reason that when it came time for the kids to choose instruments at school in 4th grade, I insisted on wind and not string instruments. Although it is absolutely possible for a very talented kid to “catch” up if they start at age 11, the psychological hurdles can be very high.
Kids don’t start wind instruments early because their facial muscles are not advanced enough to make the proper embouchure.
@whatisyourquest - “I really don’t understand the prevalence of violin and piano in the Asian-American community. Aren’t other instruments worthy? Why just classical music? What’s wrong with picking up a trumpet and becoming the first Asian Miles Davis? Now THAT would sure be “pointy” and unique, an EC that sets the kid apart from the Asian-American cohort.”
I think there are two primary reasons why Asian-Americans tend to favor violin and piano as their choices of instruments:
- The Asian cultural background is largely conformity based where individual uniqueness isn’t a part of the cultural heritage. This cultural background could also partly explain why they tend to favor certain top schools, certain majors and certain professions. Even fashion. In South Korea, everyone HAS to wear The North Face when hiking. If not, you’d be suspected of being a spy from North Korea (the assumption behind this joke is that a spy from the north has no idea what The North Face is and therefore doesn’t wear one).
Of course, all cultures have varying degree of conformity traits. Why do non-Asian Americans favor football, baseball and basketball? Just a few decades ago, no one played lacrosse in the mountain states and the west coast. The same with soccer. My backyard walks out to a nice small park, and I see kids playing soccer everyday. Every summer, soccer summer camps are booming.
- Success sets the precedent. When the female South Korean golfer, Seri Pak, burst onto the LPGA scene winning majors, she had set the precedent for the younger generation of females in South Korea to follow suit. Now, a weekly LPGA is practically won by a golfer from South Korea. The same thing with music. Kyung Wha Chung was the Seri Pak of female violinists, and now female Korean violinists are practically sweeping the major international violin competitions each year. Likewise, Lang Lang set the precedent for the tens and thousands of Chinese to take up piano. The same thing in this country after the U.S. Women’s international success in soccer. Just about all girls are playing soccer now.
Why not trumpet? This question can be asked of non-Asian Americans, too, as I don’t see a majority of young musicians favoring this instrument over the string instruments. It’s, let’s say, not an Ivy League of instruments for Asians with no successful precedents and no glamorous popularity.
Other than my armchair cultural analysis, I can’t say why other Asian-Americans pick up violin and/or piano as their favored choices. For us, it was my kids’ choice. When they were 6 and 5, I happened to take them to a local youth symphony’s instrument “petting zoo” that took place after one of their concerts. My sons quickly bonded with one of the violinists, and they started taking a weekly lesson from the young man soon after. As for piano, there was this old lady who would bring her mobile truck that served as her piano “studio” and offered the lessons right on the kindergarten yard. My boys seemed to enjoy being inside this exotic mobile piano studio with the old lady’s quirky yet charming personality, and things just worked out from there on.
When I took my boys to a local music shop around that time, I must say the younger one went straight for those glittering electric guitar section. It was too big for him, and I told him that he could take up guitar when he gets older. A few years later, I did get him a guitar, an acoustic guitar and not electric. Teaching himself guitar came very easy from the knowledge and skills that translated from his already well established skills in violin and piano.
Once I learned that my older son had no interest in music, I encouraged him to stop. He never touched any musical instruments again after that. He found his true passion in tennis and that’s what currently preoccupies his free time.
Guess that would depend on how good the spy is.
Huh? When I was in middle and high school in the west, soccer was a reasonably popular sport, and not just among Latino kids.
A good test on their intelligence gathering… Since The North Face is ubiquitous, that shouldn’t be all that difficult… 
I was also in middle and high school in the west, and while soccer was more visible, it wasn’t like what it is right now. While we had all the usual high school sports, we didn’t have a single official soccer team in our school district and other districts. We do now.
“I really don’t understand the prevalence of violin and piano in the Asian-American community. Aren’t other instruments worthy? Why just classical music?”
Piano and violin used to be expensive instruments to own and required expensive private lessons to mater them. Growing up in an Asian country, an average piano was equivalent to an average household’s annual salary. Therefore, having a piano laying around in your house, even just to collecting dust, was a symbol of status (that we have made it). It is similar to why many Asian families want their children to go to prestigious universities. I think this tradition for many Asian American family continue from the previous century.
Which is a good reason to suspect anyone wearing a Northface jacket of being a spy!
@whatisyourquest - "Competitions were mentioned several times upthread. Is that it, primarily? Piano and violin are prevalent in the Asian-American community because competitions in these instruments demonstrate prominence and a hierarchy?
Idk, I continue to think that groupthink is going on here, and that other instruments are being deemed “unacceptable.” If true, it’s a shame, and may be one root cause for the inability of some AOs to differentiate Asian-American applicants (cf. adcom notes divulged in the Harvard lawsuit)."
Cultural differences aside, piano and violin competitions ARE universally more prominent than any other instruments. Even ordinary folks have heard of the Van Cliburn International Piano Competition, International Tchaikovsky Competition and Menuhin International Violin Competition, etc. just from the media exposures. I can’t think of any other instrumental competitions that come close to such internationally prominent competitions as these and others like Queen Elisabeth Competition and the Indianapolis Quadrennial International Competition. Win one of these and your career is pretty much set.
Competitions have gone hand in hand with these instruments internationally and universally, so it’s nothing “Asian” about it except they do participate in these competitions and do extremely well. Of course, recognizing that these provide excellent EC accomplishments that can help them to achieve their dream, i.e., elite college entrance, you can easily see why so many Asian-Americans take up these instruments and participate in competitions. For a place in elite college, just taking up these instruments isn’t going to be enough. These college applications want evidences of your brilliance, and what better evidences are there than the competition wins that separate yourself from the pack?
The AdComs at these elite schools do warn the applicants to only submit the supplemental materials that are outstanding. By that, applicants take a bit of hint that if their materials are at a high school orchestra level, submitting such could actually work against their application case. So, many don’t bother submitting the materials even if they’ve participated in music all their young lives if their skills aren’t at a top conservatory level. After all, practically all top conservatory (pre-college Juilliard, NEC, Colburn, etc.) level young musicians, with each possessing a resume with a long list of accomplishments, do submit their work when they also do consider traditional college paths along with conservatories.
From my own personal observations, what makes the EC “pointy” isn’t so much that you take up a different instrument than the mass, but whatever the instrument, excel above the pack. In other words, it makes no difference whether the instrument is piano or violin or trumpet or mandolin. The bottom line is excellence.
My observation of the tiger parents around us is that they really love things their kids can excel at very young. There is something of a cult of prodigy. You can’t even begin the other instruments until you are well past prodigy age. By the time, the kid is 11 or 12 and ready to start trumpet, they want him to have already mastered something.
I think that is part of the reason that we don’t see too many Asian kids being pushed into art and writing. Besides the fact that they are not seen as leading to a “safe” career, they are not things where you can really prove your talent as a very young child.
Outside of Japan, all of Asia is still part of the developing world. Remember, the Chinese had per capita incomes lower than sub-Saharan Africa in the 1970s. Nearly all of the middle class in Asia are the first in their generation to have any economic resources. And, Asian-Americans are still primarily a first generation immigrant group with a large majority of adults born abroad. It shouldn’t be surprising in any way that they want to acquire the things that bring social status in their communities and encourage their children to follow the paths that made their own lives so much better. So immigrants who came to the US as foreign medical graduates have a disproportionate number of children headed into medicine. Those that got a green card because they are IT professionals or STEM researchers want their children to pursue the same fields. And all got in to a position to immigrate to the US because they excelled in their home country’s high-stakes testing regimes. Since tiger parenting worked for them, why shouldn’t they use it for their children?
The number of kids that win the most esteemed music competitions is minuscule. There must be ways for the “average excellent” violinist to have a compelling EC for college applications. For instance, if I were an AO, I’d be intrigued by an Asian-American violinist who developed a love for, and played, bluegrass (in addition to classical music). Don’t scoff. That would be very cool, imho.
My kid did research in HS. The research was tied to his community service and was conducted at our home, because he couldn’t find a laboratory to help him out. He submitted his research for science competitions, but didn’t win. His college essays on the topic though were VERY interesting and (I’m convinced) were a factor in his admission to the best STEM universities in the country.
I guess what I’m saying is: You don’t have to be a prodigy or win competitions to succeed with admissions at tippy tops. There are other ways to stand out. “Sameness” in the cohort though doesn’t help and, in that sense, tiger parenting is misdirected.
I don’t understand piano and violin at all in the application world unless you are applying to a conservatory of music. I think most people would rather be around students who know classical rock lyrics or are into punk or ska or whom can play Piano Man if they play the piano
An Asian-American violinist who plays the bluegrass music in addition to the classical would get my attention as interesting, too. In fact, my violinist son declared that this past month’s solo concert performance of his was the last classical solo for him. He’s going crossover from now on as far as solo performances go, although he does plan on participating in the college orchestra and perhaps even chamber ensemble come this fall.
No, you don’t have to win a high level music competition or be a prodigy to be able to earn a spot in those tippy top schools. Most of those who are in pre-college Juilliard, NEC, Colburn, etc. aren’t prodigies nor have they won any major international competitions, although some have won such. They just play at a very high level. Most of my son’s friends that he had made during his IU Summer String Academy and the Heifetz International Music Institute days when he was 13 and 14, respectively, aren’t major competition winners nor prodigies, yet they’re currently enrolled at HYPS, as well as Juilliard and NEC. These school orchestras need quality musicians in all instruments, which should answer @collegedad13’s puzzlement. No matter how talented or promising, many choose not to pursue music as a career, including my son, for various reasons. Some due to Tiger parents’ influence, some due to their own lack of interest or greater interest in something other than music, etc. But they still do have love for music and do want to participate in college orchestras and other ensembles. These musicians are very much valued by the college AdComs as they fill the institutional needs, and that’s why they enjoy such good rate of admissions success at top colleges.
My daughter starting playing piano at age 4. On her own. We had an old upright in the house and one day she climbed up on the bench and started playing the Barney theme song. We were shocked. Piano has been her go to stress reliever and happy place since. She considered conservatory for all of 5 minutes in middle school but decided after taking composition classes at a local conservatory that “having” to do it sucked the joy out of playing. That said, it is a huge part of who she is as a person, what activities she was involved with, and definitely was a big part of her ECs on her application. She was invited to apply for some music scholarships for non majors as well.
I think most Adcoms value students who can play in the marching band much more than in the school orchestra
Reading this thread I can see we all define “tiger” parent differently. I tend to define one as someone with rigid definitions of what a successful kid looks like, and pushes the kid to meet these definitions. I see plenty of tiger parents who are not white.
My tiger-ish parents were loving and supportive (They were mostly great. I was lucky!) but they also had some of those rigidly defined ideas. As such I had to practice piano three hours a day, and really came to hate every single minute of it. I think my mother and I argued for three hours every day to get those three hours out of me. Yes, I got very good. Yes, it probably did help me get into a Tiger-Approved college. And no, I don’t think I personally got a lot out of it. I quit the day I graduated high school, and never touched the piano again. The one thing I swore is that I would let my children only pursue activities that truly interested them.
I have two teenagers now. I have no idea how successful they will be by the narrow definitions of “true” tiger parents. But they both have interests that they really enjoy. And that definitely reduces the fighting.
Why criticize tiger parenting? One thing I don’t like about tiger parenting is that their rigid definitions of success can start to permeate an entire community, and add to the unnecessary drama and anxiety in a high-school community.
This is true, but if you can manage to define your own path to success, you can often profit from the fact that everyone else is looking in the other direction.
What I mean by this is that when everyone is trying to play the violin, you can shine by playing the Saxaphone. When everyone is trying to be captain of the debate team, you can shine by doing community outreach to LGBT community. And when everyone else is killing themselves trying to get into HYP, you can find those overlooked gems that have great professors, great internships and fantastic career placement results. When all the other kids are anxious wrecks waiting for “IVY day”, you can be weighing the various merit offers you got in the fall.
The more I think about it, the more I realize that in many ways our family has benefited from the presence of tiger families. It has prompted my daughter to stretch for achievements she might never have though of. It expanded my view of what kids can accomplish. It won’t change my parenting styles, but it has opened my eyes to opportunities.
I think if tiger parents want their kids to go to to HYPSM there needs to be an awful lot more thinking outside of the box. HYPSM wants kids who can do a lot more than plug and chug which unfortunately occupies too much of tiger parents time
Some anedcdotes here:
I have a child who is in our city’s youth orchestra and it is predominantly white (Asians dominate the competition circles for sure) to the point that the youth orchestra is trying different ways to attract URMs. Our Russian piano teacher’s students are almost 90% Chinese, while our American cello teacher is about 40% Asian.
Tennis, swimming, golf, skating, fencing are all popular among Asian families, while it is really hard to find Asian kids in football/baseball/basketball still. Maybe Jeremy Lin is really an anomaly.