<p>one final thought-
next time you are on the yard, take a walk in front of Lejeune, to the statue of Bill the Goat. Beloved as he is to Navy vs Army "everything," there are but 2 parts that truely "shine"....
and a reason why they glow- </p>
<p>(oh, the stuff they don't tell you on the tours! ;) )</p>
<p>Ahh . . . the great 2010 chimes in with her flourishes of gold.</p>
<p>Almost time for my tributary bow out, after four years on this site.</p>
<p>Almost time for a rememberance of those who have come and gone . . ..</p>
<p>Wheelah
Jadler [why was it you were called a "joe" at one time or the other?]
JamTex
GreatAmerican
Zaphod
and, yes, even '69.</p>
<p>Oh, and what about the lawyer-babe, alumna, the ever intriguing '85?</p>
<p>And what abou the various moms . . .'09, justa, mightyfine [made that one up], momof, and the ever great JamzMOM.</p>
<p>They have all, in some form or fashion, walked down the path of enthusiasm to . . . .?</p>
<p>A new year's toast to them all. [Well, maybe a new year's toad to one or two of them.]</p>
<p>And what about teh ever infamous [at least in her own ming][ NAVGIRL, how can she be forgotten? Or is she already? Wonder how she is doing at Harvard?</p>
<p>The full poem reads:</p>
<p>Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.</p>
<p>In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.</p>
<p>Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find me, unafraid.</p>
<p>It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul.</p>
<p>Not a bad read.</p>
<p>I hope for two of the folks that I ahve interviewed that they get in. They are very qualified. Due to the circumstances discussed above, as one cynic migh observe, they might not.</p>
<p>So, to all those who are applying and hoping and waiting, good luck. But, be careful, sometimes you get what you pray for.</p>
<p>LOL!! I haven't been on CC in months. I'm glad I checked today:)</p>
<p>Re: NAVgirl - Doing great at Harvard, a real sweetheart ( I can say that I'm a mom - but not her mom), heckuva an athlete, and quite bright (that's Harvardspeak). The Navy is LUCKY to have her.</p>
<p>And not cynical :P</p>
<p>"OH, East is East, and West is West,...." Read your Kipling. Agree to disagree.</p>
<p>Bill, Bill, Bill----
why so melancholy? It's only Tuesday! But Invictus is rather fitting, don't you think?</p>
<p>Our mids are back in the arms of Mother B, and although the house is a bit emptier, a little less festive minus the Christmas tree, there is still a bit of the journey left ahead, bitter-sweet as it may be! Your soon-to-be Marine is safe with three hots-and-a cot, so life is still good- </p>
<p>and if I can get through THIS past Christmas, surely you can last a few months more! I mean, the Dark Ages have yet to descend! If you disappear on us, who else will remind us of the birds and Capastrano, or how many ways we can discect "I did not have sexual relations with that woman...."... I mean, who else will be a better voyour as you round that next turn? Your Capastrano birds rank right up there with flip-flops and hoo-haas and the other golden oldies of CC! </p>
<p>Come on Bill! Cheer up!!!! It's Happy Hour somewhere!!! </p>
<p>"sometimes you get what you pray for"..... yup, and better hope it's what you want and that you still want it when you get it! ;)</p>
<p>"and, yes, even '69."</p>
<p>Aw, that guy was hilarious. What happened to him?</p>
<p>
<p>Aw, that guy was hilarious. What happened to him?
</p>
<p>Member Name: USNA69
Last Activity: Yesterday 02:24 PM</p>
<p>:cool:</p>
<p>This is actually a great topic. I will chime in. </p>
<p>For my first three years at USNA, I was not cynical one bit (kind of hard to believe, given the large numbers that are). However, during 1/C year, I became cynical and it related to what '85 said about being treated as a child. The trust was not there and it seems like the administration thought that on May 23, a switch was flipped, and all of a sudden we weren't children anymore. </p>
<p>I had the opportunity to be on Brigade Staff and I can tell you that not all of the MIDN were "Joes" or had the best grades (academic and conduct). In my time, a great group of people bonded and turned the changes of VADM Fowler and then-Capt Klein into positives. I think that the trend of selecting the best MIDN (highest grades, etc) is becoming of less importance for some positions (obviously, this isn't going to be true for the BC billet). </p>
<p>Let me prelude the next section by saying that I reported to my ship as a very "motivated" JO to my ship (along with two other ENS, 1 USNA, 1 ROTC). </p>
<p>Cynicism does not go away in the fleet (as least in the SWO community)! In fact, there isn't one JO onboard that hasn't been pretty cynical. Why are we cynical? Pretty much for the most part we aren't treated like adults, feedback isn't appreciated nor considered (we are ALWAYS at fault, even if it isn't ours -- I am not talking about "responsibility" issues -- i.e. SN Jones had a messed up uniform -- it related to the fact that there is about 30 hours of work for a 24 hour day), people are used at any expense -- which includes people not being appreciated, reprimanding constantly in public, not being truthful, and having/setting unrealistic goals. </p>
<p>Almost every JO wants to get out after their commitment or lateral transfer. In my personal opinion, if you look at the "big picture," part of the problem is Navy's manning and increase in operational requirements, having an adverse affect on every sailor. I think another part of the problem just depends on what billet, division, and collateral duties one has.</p>
<p>If you gave any USNA JO Alumni on our ship the opportunity to return to USNA, all would go back. And looking back, the things that we complained about are nothing compared to the problems we are experiencing now.</p>
<p>^^^^</p>
<p>I'm glad to hear that TPTB are reaching out to mids other than the academic standouts for leadership positions. I do understand that, if someone is barely treading water academically, he/she may not have the time to take on another job. However, as you correctly point out, in the fleet, you can't quit on your troops because you're too busy doing PQS.</p>
<p>If I were king (or Dant), I would require that one group of mids be class leaders plebe year and youngster year an ENTIRELY new group would be chosen. 2/c year would be a completely new third group. Final year, pick best of the best. </p>
<p>IMO, one of the greatest failures of USNA in my day was the lack of leadership training most of us received. As a result, some of us (myself at the head of this dubious pack) failed miserably in our first tour as division officers. THAT experience was, unfortunately for the enlisted who worked for me, what taught me to lead. I learned a hard lesson in a hurry but it should have been mostly learned in the four years at USNA. The fact is that the least talented mid from an academic, PT, and conduct standpoint will still be sent out to lead young men and women and needs to know how to do so to the same extent as the Brigade Commander. </p>
<p>I've heard that the prior and current Supes have made leadership for all mids more of a priority. I hope that is true. You don't really learn about leadership by taking leadership classes -- you learn by doing. And, sad to say, failing. Better to fail at USNA than in the fleet/Corps.</p>
<p>jadler03: I hope your experience is not the norm out in the Fleet. You will never get away from the concept of too much work in too little time. That is just a fact of shipboard life. It is not like you can add more people when you have "real estate" constraints. Junior Officers of today are tomorrow's leaders and it is important that they do not lead in the same way that they have been led. Use this as an opportunity to develop your individual leadership style, one that does not include those you are experiencing first hand today. </p>
<p>1985: it is hard to teach leadership. You can teach the concepts, but they go out the window when you hit the deckplates, as I am sure you know. It is hard to teach how to handle the young newly wed going to sea for the first time leaving major finanacial problems with his/her spouse; it is hard to teach delivering an American Red Cross message to someone who just lost a loved one; it is hard to teach everyone picking up the slack when someone goes UA and you have a major inspection on the horizon; and most difficult of all is teaching family seperation.</p>
<p>I always say and hope that the cream will rise to the top as the JO's of today become the senior leaders of tomorrow.</p>
<p>A good book that is out right now called "Its Your Ship" , I highly recommend it.</p>
<p>grad/dad. Lifetime government employment, regardless of whether military or civilian,does not lend itself to encouraging the best cream to rise or even to remain.
There are several different grades and types of cream: Butter and whipped cream are one result but sour cream is also one. Of course, here in the US, we don't even consider clotted cream.</p>
<p>Government Organizations, in many cases, are more interested in their processes than results. If you worked w/ government a long time, you know that the barrage of forms, notices, regulations, and procedures can overwhelm even the best of intended results. And yo uprobably know of dozens of examples where a person better qualified [at least in your opnion] did not get the job or promotion over another simply because the former "told the truth" and the latter did not. [Does Gen. Shinseki come to mind? NOw, in some cases, very rare cases, the spoils do come to those who are honorable, etc. and Shinseki isa prime example.] Yes, this happens in the private sector also. </p>
<p>So, if you are one who is more interested in results than processess [which private industry frequently is] then, why would you stay with the government more than 10, 15, or 20 years? Especially if you are presented w/ an opportunity that is more profitable and less demanding. At least in theory, only those who are exceptional officers/employees get presented with the really good opportunities. Somehow, that person has made him/herself available to a more profitable/less demanding situation and they take it.</p>
<p>Certainly, [AND DO NOT IGNORE THIS WHEN YOU WRITE TO DISAGREE] some fine, honorable, competent people remain wiht the military/government in order to effect change. But, many, many others simply remains because, well, because they can. They find a place to hide w/in the bowels of the military [government] and proceed to make th elives of others less than comfortable because of their micro-managing, self-absorbed, CYA way of getting things done. Furthermore, since they are exposed to no other way to manage/govern, underlings are doomed to thinking that no other way exists to "get the job done."</p>
<p>Jadler may encounter better leadership in another environment, another ship, another billet. He may eno****er that rare individual who is inspiring; a true leader. Let's hope he does before that person leaves.</p>
<p>To summarize everything, adult life offers plenty of excuses to be cynical, no matter what job you choose. Mids at USNA might be more cynical than your average Duke or UCSB students, but that's because they're getting an earlier taste of adult life than these other kids.</p>
<p>Therefore, if you plan on doing something worthwile with your life, don't trip over which environment is going to make you more cynical. Remember that your mindstate is ultimately under your control, and be grateful that USNA is a high-pressure (but safe) environment to practice that control.</p>
<p>"It's Your Ship" Is an excellent book that is well written and has put new energy and vitality into my organization on the civilian side as well. My S is fairly balanced about the challenges of plebe year. In anything there is good and bad. Every day is a new challenge, every day has a bright star, every day brings a downfall. The key he say's is keep moving.
The joes and the skaters exist in any large organization. Cynicysm is like anything else. It is what YOU make it out to be.
All tours end, you move on every 3 years or so. Each tour is a new start. There are no bad jobs only bad attitudes. </p>
<p>My 2 cents...</p>
<p>Late to the party as usual, but better late than never…</p>
<p>I will post this based strictly upon my own experience. I purposely did NOT read any of the previous answers so as not to “bias the data”, as we QA types like to say.</p>
<p>In my experience, the mood a person feels toward USNA generally looks like a period and a quarter of a sine wave.</p>
<p>Section 1: The initial discovery. The kid goes nuts dreaming about USNA, reading the catalog, watching all the usual movies, and so forth. The curve goes way up.</p>
<p>Section 2: The USNA experience. Reality kicks the kid in the teeth upon arrival. No one ever mentioned mandatory PEP rallies in the catalog, chow calls, Bore-Us-All Lectures, and the usual tidbits of life at USNA that are generally less than fun. Down the curve goes. Personally, I think the USNA Admissions Catalog is the best piece of propaganda ever printed.</p>
<p>Section 3: Post-Graduation. As time passes and the kid begins to see the benefits of USNA, the curve reverses and climbs high. Generally, the curve never again comes down.</p>
<p>The hight of the peaks and the depth of the trough, as well as precisely where along the time axis the changes in direction take place, are entirely unique to each person. Some outliers will exist, of course. I know of one guy who, once the curve dropped, it STAYED down. Others just plain THRIVE on the place, so the curve goes up and only up.</p>
<p>Two cents from someone who went through the place. Hope it helps. :)</p>
<p>I agree 100%. You do not truly appreciate the academy until you are in the fleet. Small stuff you learn there are major things in the fleet.</p>
<p>^^^XCI_Wraith pretty much summed things up in a perversely humorous manner (Bore-Us-All Lectures, catalog…). I asked my mid if she’d ever consider sending her future offspring to Annapolis. “Sure, so they’ll appreciate what I had to put up with!” ;)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’ll go one up on you.</p>
<p>You don’t really appreciate the academy until after you’ve left the service and become a civilian again.</p>
<p>and then there are those that don’t appreciate what they have until they are on the verge of losing it even before they ever get the chance to toss that cover in the air.</p>
<p>Honestly- I don’t think this situation is any different than a lot of colleges. I was motivated and shrieked at my college acceptance, loved it year 1, hated it after a while (cynical), graduated thinking I’d never give them a dime, and now donate and love it after seeing that my education really gave me a lot more opportunities and abilities that those graduating from other institutions didn’t get. (I can specifically draw some lines of success due to my college… age and looking back with wisdom helped.) So - I think XCI_Wraith had a good point about the curve.</p>
<p>The other thing - psychologically speaking - interestingly, the harder you have to work for something and more stupid the tast, the more value it continues to hold. That’s because we don’t want to lessen our own self-worth. (They’ve done experiments where people have to put pegs in holes for hours - boring. One gets paid $1 and another gets paid $100. The person who got paid $1 actually spoke highly of the task and somehow saw a purpose in it. The person who got paid $100 spoke of its stupidity and worthlessness.) How this relates – I’ve always wondered (and knowing a lot of Academy graduates and current Mids)… Do some of those who get in and then get an “easier ride” start becoming more cynical faster than those who are still working their tushes off? (I know those currently in would say “no way.”) Still - from what I can see from talking to parents - somehow those plebes in companies that were released from a lot of duties early were griping and complaining a lot earlier than the plebes in companies where they still had the stupid tasks going on. They had to still put value on what they were doing to not lose their minds of doing pointless tasks. So, their motivation and continued love for the Academy still seemed pretty high. …a lot of us parents who were exchanging e-mails just thought this was ironic back then at the beginning of the fall semester…) …just another thought…</p>
<p>I also think going from top to “average” is hard – it always is. You have rewrite what defines your own being. If you were always known as “the smart one” and lose that, you have to look at the situation that put you into this new feeling and change. (“It’s the Academy that is making others look at me differently.”) So many were top athletes and well-respected in schools, and at the academy, they aren’t so special. Anytime an adult has to redefine what makes them special, you tend to attack the item that is making you look inward. (Us “old” people figure that out when we lose our beauty and/or strength and have to find other things that are respected by society.)</p>
<p>Most people go from being the best to being average, and so I think the academically cynical mindset goes something like this: well, if I can’t be at the top then it doesn’t matter, so why should I even try? I’ll never get a 4.0 again so I’ll just make sure I’m not unsat (above a 2.0, can’t have an F, can’t have 2 Ds) </p>
<p>As far as the academy goes, there are the cynical people who just don’t WANT to do anything because they didn’t really know what they were getting themselves into. I think this group is small. They are the first to moan and groan about formations, mandatory events, etc. and eventually they begin to effect the people who aren’t really cynical but not too enthusiastic, perpetuating the cynicism. </p>
<p>Then there are the cynical enthusiasts, surprisingly. These are the people who are cynical because they came here expecting a group of people who always try to do their best, who work hard. When their picture-perfect image of the academy is shattered, they become cynical because they realize the reality of their dream. These people are also cynical because they work hard, do the right thing, etc, but get the same privaleges as the people who barely do anything. They are cynical because they aren’t treated like adults, they disagree with the way the academy is run, etc. This might be a generalization, but I’ve noticed that a lot of these people tend to be the priors.</p>
<p>Just a few ideas I wanted to throw in.</p>