<p>Actually the head of a program (that will go nameless here just because I know there are kids who care about the program -- but is not the one Thesbiandreams was referring to) specifically volunteered the "fact" that his program was in the top 3. He did this at not one but 2 general sessions with parents and students. This was not just from the kids. I was offended. I know the head of this program is a lurker on this forum, so he should stop doing this. The whole thing of rankings is nonsense.</p>
<p>nytheatremom, I was simply relaying my own experience at never having heard it directly or seen it on any website. If you heard it said personally, I don't see any problem in you naming the individual and school here. If this person didn't want it repeated then they shouldn't have stated it in an open session with parents and students! :)</p>
<p>I'm not a fan of rankings, in general, but at least with general college rankings, they actually exist! MT rankings do not, so, I agree with you, they are indeed nonsense.</p>
<p>I wasn't going to post on this thread as I truly rolled my eyes when I saw this subject once again revisited. Needless to say this topic is a bit of a Pandora's box and frankly I believe most of us on CC would like the box to remain closed.</p>
<p>First of all as most everyone has told you this is purely a subjective subject. There is no factual data that can support a ranking of which schools are better than others.</p>
<p>I liked the analogy someone earlier used of asking who is the prettiest girl in the school. "Pretty" to people can mean different things. Just as the word "success" can mean a whole lot of things to different people.</p>
<p>It's probably very typical for a person just beginning their research on schools to wonder which are the "top" schools. In fact I would wager a guess that when we first began our venture into this MT training world that we wanted to know the same thing. BUT eventually after researching the schools you will begin to understand that to achieve your goals as a performer is to find the program that best suits you and your style of learning. Being a part of BFA/Conservatory program is pure and simple metamorphosis....at least it should be, if you find the right program for YOU...not what others deem as ideal.</p>
<p>I will now go back to lurking and hope this box goes closed AGAIN!!</p>
<p>I agree that it's best to do your own research and that it all depends on your needs. But, I can say this with authority. CCM announced to a group of auditioners in New York, that my d was in, that they are now the #1 school in the country for musical theatre. I'm not saying that they are or aren't, simply that they did, in fact, make this claim 2 days ago in front of a large group of kids. I, however, also agree that is is really a pointless discussion. Who cares how a schools ranks, rather whether it will give you the training that you desire for your personal goals.</p>
<p>Ok, I'll bite:
West Virginia Wesleyan College, for one, tells prospective students that they are "one of the top programs in the country for musical theatre."</p>
<p>And that is a perfect example of the reasons why I feel that this topic SHOULD be discussed, to address:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>HOW to judge a program's effectiveness in relation to the professional world - and there are many factors to be considered</p></li>
<li><p>the fact that some schools DO make ridiculous and very unprofessional claims - and worse, some disparage other schools openly, at least to individual students whom they are courting - and the problem with all of this is that it puts unwitting students at risk</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I wholeheartedly agree with theatermom that the schools which "protest too much" raise question marks in my head as schools which are either pettily trying to win a competition of sorts or which are unclear about/insecure about the strength of their programs' philosophies and curricula (so they literally claim, "We are just as good as School X). It is the schools which never labor to make such claims which seem, at least to me, to be actually focused on the integrity of the EDUCATION they are providing.</p>
<p>Ok.. Since I have been asked this on the board and in a private message... and others are naming names...
It was the head of the Penn State that on at least 2 occasions at parent/student meetings said it was number 3 and compared its program to Michigan's in ratings.</p>
<p>I spent a large part of my summer visiting schools for MT and acting. Now I am auditioning to many of those schools. When a school would boast that they are one of the best, or the best, the question to be asked was...."What makes you the best?"!! The reply would be many different reasons...job placement, alumni, actual program, what they do to get you out into the world.......so, it is not how THEY rank them, it is how YOU rank them. There are some "top" schools that I choose to not audition to, and some smaller ones I am auditioning to for my own personal reasons! Go with your gut feeling! That is what my parents have said, and I feel it too. </p>
<p>Good luck to all. I have one more audition then the waiting continues.....</p>
<p>I think, in discussing the ranking of MT depts, we tend to forget one factor--the impact of the student. Sure curriculum and teachers are critical, but the student is too. When a school is perceived as a top rated school, the "best and brightest" apply. The dept has their choice of the cream of the crop. But if a "best and brightest" student applies to what is perceived as a second tier school because of cost or location or what ever, and becomes successful then suddenly that school becomes a top tier school. Ultimately, a dept can only do so much. whether in grade school or college, our children (with our support and the support of their teachers) are responsible for their success.</p>
<p>I also have had the urge to try and rank the schools in order of "importance", but as we have walked through the process it has become very clear that the advise of those who claim "personal fit" are so very accurate. </p>
<p>We just returned from OU and OCU campus visits where the department chairs spoke. I was very impressed with both groups and found that their words were encouraging. I believe it is both an emotional and a rationale decision. You have to "feel" good about the people you will work with - both adults and students, and feel good about the campus and environment and distance from home. </p>
<p>Then you also need to analyze and rationalize what they offer. There are some very distinct differences in the way each program is run and it's based on specific beliefs about what makes a "successful" preparation for an MT career. We're creating a comparison sheet to see how certain factors line up for each school such as number of and creditionals of faculty, outcome of alums, number of performance opportuntities, cost/scholarship packages, etc. </p>
<p>So, I believe it is a combination of both emotional and rational thoughts that will help my S make the right decision. He's waiting to see who will invite him first tho! It may be a very easy decision if only one out of the eight asks! But we're hoping for a hard decision...! :)</p>
<p>There is no ranking of MT programs that is based in any remotely scientific, verifiable, valid process.
It breaks down to, "I can knit a sweater - I can do it better...."
or "Be true to your school..."
Are people looking for easy answers? Are they looking for snob appeal?
The best school is one that provides each student the best fit for that individual. There are schools - about thirty that provide solid conservatory/BFA MT training for the serious student - and in that group - probably a half dozen or so that are outstanding.
There is no ranking of MT programs that is based in any remotely scientific, verifiable, valid process.</p>
<p>It's also really hard to rank MT programs based on the fact that how can you compare BoCo to NYU/Cap 21? One is a Conservatory program and the other is a conservatory under a large university. I'm just using those 2 as an example, but thats partly why there are no official rankings out there for MT. I remember reading on the Shenandoah COnservatory page on here, someone posted they were the #3 program and I asked where they heard that and one of their professors said so! But their rankings were 1) CCM 2) BoCo 3) Shenandoah...but as u see those are all conservatory programs, they are not even being compared to any of the other well know programs like CMU and NYU. </p>
<p>And to the ranking saying Julliard is the number one acting program, I have heard that Julliards acting program is no better than any of the other top acting porgrams. They mainly rely on their reputation of their other incredible programs such as music.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have heard that Julliards acting program is no better than any of the other top acting porgrams. They mainly rely on their reputation of their other incredible programs such as music.
[/quote]
And I have "heard" that the MT program at CMU is totally overrated and Tisch is in the business of babysitting rich kids but that doesn't mean it's true. Name a single acting school in the U.S. that has more well known alumni than Juilliard. Name one that has more Tony nominees and winners. Name one that has a lower admit rate. I don't think you can. Be careful about what you "hear." I almost want to agree because I'm still disappointed I didn't get a callback but that would just be sour grapes. You can't argue with MASSIVE amounts of success.</p>
<p>10 tony nominees while they were still in school?
hopefully, that's not true ((cuz then i'll want to go there.))
hahaha; oh well. i think that success is about the individual,
not the extreme greatness of going to a "number one" school
or majoring at a community college;
some people have it more than others,
and there are some aspects to theatre and acting
that you cannot teach...</p>
<p>i heard that somewhere.
don't quote me for it.</p>
<p>Theatreguy120 - Interesting You're into MT and you don't know about Patti Lupone? Or actor Robin Williams? William Hurt? Elizabeth McGovern? What about 2005 Tony Winner Sara Ramirez and nominees Laura Linney and Heather Goldenhersh? Also, this isnt scientific but on Wikipedia, 23% of Juilliards listed notable students were actors, so throw out that bit about them getting their rep from the music division. I found the site you Googled and Tisch had three nominated for ACTING in 2004 with Idina Menzel being a winner for leading actress in a musical. The rest were in other areas like design and playwriting. Juilliard also had three nominees that year. About average for them if you look back over time. Lets also remember that Juilliard graduates between 10 and 20 actors a year compared to the approximately 300 from Tisch. Im not putting down Tisch, but lets not get carried away! I dont have time to research it right now but I will hypothesize that if there is any American acting school that is even CLOSE to Juilliard in this way it would be CMU. The Juilliard admit rate is between 1% and 2% and a lot of the people they admit are older so don't give me that about them not being more selective than the rest.</p>
<p>Robin Williams didn't actually graduate from Juilliard - he left/was asked to leave (depending on whom you talk to) for "artistic differences" - but he is a wonderful and versatile actor and probably still has some Juilliard in him. ;)</p>
<p>There is also Kristen Johnson (formerly of NBC's 3rd Rock from the Sun and many prior and subsequent stage productions), Kevin Kline (oh how I love him!!!), Marcia Cross (Bree from Desperate Housewives), and Michael Hayden, who was an AMAZING Billy Bigelow in the 1994 revival of Carousel - just off the top of my head.</p>
<p>Juilliard is certainly an outstanding school!</p>