Theory: Being a bay area asian male raises a lot of eyebrows when you try to "skirt" the college system

Applying to College
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There is an old expression “living well is the best revenge”.

Living well doesn’t mean having the most money. It means (among many things) being true to yourself, finding happiness and satisfaction in what you do, being healthy physically and mentally. Not being burdened with anger or concern with what others think. Having the opportunity to positively impact others.

As you experience more of life I suspect you will find that vengeance and anger won’t serve you well in terms of either motivation or satisfaction. To be honest they are pretty crappy emotions that everyone feels but some manage better than others.

As I said previously you seem to have a lot going for you. Don’t let others who doubt you drive you to be insincere but instead find those things that you enjoy and live well.

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For what it’s worth, no one “deserves” anything,

I suggest that you stop focusing on your classmate in your posts and instead try presenting yourself clearly with what you want. You are just muddying the waters with all this talk about your classmate.

If what you want is a prestigious school where a) you can be a direct admit into neuro engineering or b) you can enter as environmental studies and then switch to neuro-engineering, then please just say so and you will get better advice.

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I thought it was pretty clear I wanted B

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All the talk about your classmate and issues of discrimination muddied the water a lot.

Then take a look at any of the colleges where you don’t have to declare until sophomore year, such as Brown, which you have already mentioned.

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i guess. my entire premise was detailing my frustration against the situation bay area asian males are in.

Anyways, how much of an anti hook is being from the bay area, paired with asian and male. I am in an uncompettive high school tho w/ 50% low income and only 20% high achieveing

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But you really can’t do anything about your location, gender and ethnicity. You are from where you are (unless your parents will move to Kentucky or someplace similar for your senior year!), and it is unethical to lie about your ethnicity in order to try to game the system – and, if caught, there may be repercussions from the colleges. So, leave that behind, and focus clearly what you want: high prestige schools where your stats and ECs will be a boost. And being a top student at your school will help, obviously, if your counselor will note that you took the most rigorous curriculum available (did you?)

So…it seems like your best best for prestige is colleges like Brown where no backdoor is needed, because they don’t admit by major and you don’t actually have to declare until after you get there, so all majors are open to you… And I think you are correct that having strong ECs in a potentially less-typical arena may serve you well.

Also, regarding safeties, the top UCs (UCB and UCLA) may or may not actually be safeties, so continue to look for others safeties you might be happy with. I reiterate that Cal Poly SLO might be good – they are stats only, and they have a strong bioengineering program that you might be able to fine-tune into neuro-engineering.

You could also look a the top Canadian colleges, which also admit based on stats. Look at McGill, University of Toronto, University of British Columbia – they are more selective than they seem, because Canadians only apply to them if they have the stats to get in, so the applicant pool is much stronger than the applicant pool at similar US colleges. Plus if you have a lot of APs, you can start as a second-year student (at least at McGill), which will a) save money b) be prestigious in and of itself and c) get you to the more interesting classwork/a master’s sooner. Also, Canadian schools are often less expensive than their US counterparts, although of course that depends to some extent upon the exchange rate.

Good luck. Please don’t let your frustration get in the way of making a solid plan. The high-prestige system is gamed against most of their applicants, and railing against it will not get you where you want to be.

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One other piece of advice if applying to Brown. Rather then focusing on what they don’t make you do (Pre declare concentration) focus on what Brown offers that is consistent with your aspirations. You describe yourself as a potential entrepreneur.

Take a look at what the Nelson Center for entrepreneurship at Brown offers and what some of the students there are accomplishing. Is it of interest to you?

Several student founded ventures accepted into accelerators that you mentioned previously.

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How many schools have you identified that offer both environmental studies and neuroengineering, with easy switching of majors? That seems easy to figure out.

Shotgunning is unlikely to yield optimal results because you need to do the research to demonstrate why each school is a fit (while understanding that the colleges are the final arbiters of fit).

For the UCs, I encourage you to choose the major you want…in general it’s relatively difficult to change majors at the UCs.

What are your safety schools? What is your budget?

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For the UC’s, they use 13 areas of criteria when reviewing applications: How applications are reviewed | UC Admissions

Below is a summary of how the UC’s admit:
UCB:
Division (L&S, CNR, CoC, CED, CoE) matters for admission selectivity.
Within CoE (but not the other divisions), major matters for admission selectivity. Changing majors within the CoE after enrolling is not guaranteed, unless one is CoE undeclared.

Note that L&S admits students as undeclared; admission to capped majors (e.g. CS, economics, psychology, ORMS, statistics, art practice, and a few others) is by college GPA in prerequisite courses (and portfolio for art practice) after attending for a few semesters.

The business major is in a separate division and admits students in a competitive holistic process. Frosh intending business majors begin in another division (usually L&S), take the business major prerequisites, and apply (usually in their second years). They also need to take prerequisites for a backup major in case they are not admitted to the business major.

All students who apply to UC Berkeley and select a major within the College of Natural Resources are evaluated based on their application, not on the particular major they select.

Alternate majors not considered.

UCD:
Admission decisions are made based upon the qualifications of the applicant pool and the number of available spaces within each academic area:
• College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences admits by college
• College of Biological Sciences admits by college
• College of Letters and Science admits by College
• (Humanities, Arts and Cultural Studies; Mathematics and Physical Sciences; Social Sciences)
• College of Engineering admits by academic department
Students applying as “undeclared” or “undeclared/exploratory” are considered within the college/division to which they applied.

Applicants are encouraged to list an alternate major, but not in the
same area as the primary major (e.g., Computer Science Engineering with alternate Computer Science in the College of L&S). Occasionally, we admit to the alternate major.

UCI:
Freshman Selection:
UCI admits into the University first and then into the major. In the case that UCI is unable to accommodate all qualified applicants in their first-choice major, those students who indicate a valid alternate major may be offered admission in that major or Undeclared.

UCLA:
For the College of Letters and Science, the applicant’s major is not considered during the review process.
The Henry Samueli School of Engineering and Applied Science admits students by declared major, with more emphasis on science and math programs.
The School of Nursing also places more emphasis on science and math programs and requires the submission of an additional supplemental application.
The School of the Arts and Architecture; Herb Alpert School of Music; and the School of Theater, Film and Television admit students by declared major (within the school), and put more emphasis on special talents through a review of portfolios and/or auditions, which are the most significant admission factors for these schools.

UCLA only guarantees review of an applicant’s first-choice major.
We typically do not admit to the alternate major

UCSD:
The campus does not admit students on the basis of academic major or choice of UC San Diego undergraduate college. Alternate majors are considered and capped majors are highly competitive. Also note: Capped majors require additional pre-req courses and specific GPA to be able to qualify if changing majors. Also if applying to a capped major, select an non-capped major as an alternate.

UCSB:
College of Letters and Sciences: Choice of major is not considered in selection to the College of Letters and Science. The exceptions to this rule are dance and music performance majors. Both majors require applicants to complete an audition in late January or early February.

College of Engineering: Students are selected by major for all engineering and computer science majors. Only applicants with a solid background in advanced high school mathematics will be considered for admission to engineering. This includes high grades in all math courses through grade 11 and enrollment in pre-calculus or higher in grade 12. A student not selected for their first choice major will be reviewed for admission to an alternate major outside of the College of Engineering if one was selected.

UCSC:
Important Note for Prospective Engineering Students: Choice of major does not influence the selection of first-year students, except for those applicants interested in a major offered by the Jack Baskin School of Engineering (BSOE). Freshmen who are interested in a BSOE program should be sure to indicate a BSOE proposed major. Students who do not indicate a BSOE program or who apply as undeclared might not be able to pursue a BSOE program.

UCR:
Admission by major but alternate/2nd choice major will be considered if applicant does not meet their first choice admission standards.

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Universities don’t care at all that you are from the Bay Area. What they care about is what they report on. Most do geographic regions in the US. They don’t care if you from SF, Seattle, SLC, Phoenix or LA. At all the top universities, the get enough quality applications from all states that hitting the all 50 states bullet point is easy.

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SLO actually cares about ECs.
“Cal Poly takes activities such as work experience, internships, volunteer programs and extracurricular activities into consideration. We are also interested in any leadership roles you may have held in these activities.”

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How would verify the NPO with 3500 kids impacted?

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through awards i think

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Just think, what if you could wow the AOs just by being you?

Even if you’re successful at backdooring admission to your top school, you will always have to live with the fact that you didn’t get in through the front door. What I have seen from cheating and dishonesty is that in the end it doesn’t act to bolster one’s sense of self. Rather, it seeds self doubt.

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True, but they don’t ask about any specifics (at least, they didn’t in the past). They ask you to tell them the general number of hours you put into your ECs, and also whether you held any leadership roles. But there is (was) no place to list the actual ECs or your specific contributions.

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They have a description box where you describe each individual extracurricular.

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Wow.

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Then that is new for this year. I just checked my son’s forms from last year, and they did not ask that. The UCs did, but the Cal States did not. The Cal States just asked how many hours per week all together, and if you had a leadership role.

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It depends where you are applying.

For schools that do not admit by major (MIT, Harvard, I am pretty sure that Stanford and Caltech also fall into this category) the student who has the better chance is the one who has an application that the admissions committee believes is sincere and legitimate.

For schools that admit by major, and who make it very difficult to switch into a highly popular major, the student who has a better chance of being admitted to the school is probably the one who applies for ES. However, the student who has the best chance of being allowed to eventually become a CS major at that school is most likely the one who applied as a CS major.

Also, you do not want to be stuck at a university with a major that you don’t want and find that you cannot switch to the major that you do want. It would be much better to be at a different university with the major that you do want.

Also, there are lots of universities in the US which have great CS programs. I have worked with CS graduates from a long list of schools, including MIT and Stanford but also including U.Mass Amherst, Rutgers, SJSU, and a very long list of other schools. After your first month on the job no one is going to care which of at least 100 universities you graduate from, and in most cases coworkers will not remember which university you graduated from. “Prestige” does not matter for CS jobs in the US – that might have something to do with all of the t-shirts and blue jeans.

Also, the top universities overall are not necessarily the same as the top universities for CS, neuro-engineering (whatever that is), or anything else.

Really, DO NOT try to trick or outsmart the admissions staff at a top university. They have seen it before. Apply for the major that you want. Be fully honest in your application.

The admissions staff at top universities are made up of very smart people who have seen all of this before may times.

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The Cal state application has not opened yet for Fall 2022 so I am assuming that @iawjrh7nj819diond is referring to the UC application in regards to explaining EC’s. Cal Poly SLO is the only CSU that asks for EC information as noted by @MMRose with no area to list them. Unless there is a huge overhaul for CSU application, it will remain the same as previous years.

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