<p>Jesus said told the pharasies that their silly laws were stupid, and did not effectively convey the intent of god. He said the message of god is carved in your heart, not in stone, and that the OT rules were obliterated. He actually said that some people were not ready to be christians yet, and that we should just leave them alone instead of the modern interpretation of "evangalize the crap out of everyone, and use the government to enforce what our sect of christianity believes is the godly way".</p>
<p>Again, non-Christians misquoting the Scripture like they have actually read and understood God's message.</p>
<p>Matthew 5:17: THink not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.</p>
<p>Ummmm...sounds like the law is still important.</p>
<p>Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, THou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of te judgment: 22: But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosover shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.</p>
<p>Matthew 5:27: Ye have heard that is was said by them of old time, THou shalt not commit adultery: 28: But I say unto you, that whosoever looeth on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29: And if they right eye offend thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee: for is is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.</p>
<p>Ummmm...again, it sounds like Jesus was saying the law was still important...even going so far as expanding on what is considered "to kill" and "to commit adultery". </p>
<p>The only difference between the OT and NT law is that through Jesus we understand that we are incapable of keeping the law on our own accord. Instead, our only hope of "keeping" the law is through the saving grace of Jesus' sacrifice. Its kind of like the buddy system....As humans (saved or not) we will trip and sometimes fall. Its what occurs after the fall that matters. In OT times, we had to find our own way of getting back up. In NT times (including today), Jesus is standing right there ready to pick us back up.</p>
<p>For those who really want to understand that which they don't understand, a few readings ...like C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity", "More Than A Carpenter", Lee Strobel's "Case for Faith" and "Case for Christ" ...Lewis and Strobel were once aetheists who through their genuine searches discovered the truth. </p>
<p>For those who want more, try out Focus on the Family's "The Truth Project" which is a monumental series addressing many of the issues inkled at here and taught to their Family Life Institute college students by Dr. Del Tackett. </p>
<p>All are powerful learning tools.</p>
<p>Ok, I have totally lost you on this one. I am going in a completely different direction with this one. Just remember that my point is that the bible as we know it is not everything, and that christianity as we know is has changed DRASTICALLY since peter n paul and Christ died. So here it goes (please be open minded, and if you need to, verify by outside sources because this stuff it correct).</p>
<p>Why do we celebrate easter? what is easter? Why do we hide the eggs? How come we can not predict the date of easter?</p>
<p>Tbone ...making these types of statements to Christians and/or students of the faith is like suggesting to you that Santa and the Easter bunny are for-real! Seriously, if you are such, you might wanna pick up any of the above. Ravi Zacharias is another. btw, Josh McDowell wrote the "More Than ..." piece. Good luck in your learning. It's outcome can be a life-changer.</p>
<p>Amen, Whistle!</p>
<p>I thought and thought about how to respond to Tboone's last posting...but really, how can one explain how millions of different people from thousands of different religious backgrounds view Easter, or any other religious holiday. Realistically, the term Christian encompasses so many denominations and belief systems that a general answer is difficult to formulate. </p>
<p>Honestly, to me Easter is no different from any of the other days in a year, as I choose to remember and ponder on Jesus' birth, death and resurrection on a daily basis. I don't just make such observances on any specific day....so every day is Easter and Christmas and Pentecost, etc. </p>
<p>Tboone, it might really help you to pick up C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity". Maybe you can understand where most of us are coming from...even if you choose to disbelief what he has written.</p>
<p>No, i am not talking about it like that, so I guess you do not know the deal with easter. Easter is on the first sunday after the full moon of the vernal equinox. Why is it tagged to this movable date instead of being attached to an actual fixed date. If jesus was really crucifyed, it would have to be on an actual date, that we could replicate each year consistently. The current method allows the date of easter to be varied between apr 3 and 25 or so abouts. Why? Why do you think that easter is pegged to this strange astrological date. Does it have any significance to you (the astrological part)?</p>
<p>Because Easter was actually a pagan holiday centuries before the birth, death and resurrection of Christ. Easter wasn't Christianized until about 325 AD. The actual crucifiction date of Christ is not known as a precise date. We can guesstimate, based on the events of the time. Some scholars believe that He was crucified on the 14th or 15th of Nissan, but this doesn't match known information of the times.</p>
<p>Yes, and it still is a pagan holiday. easter, the pagan holiday dedicated to the sacrifice of an innocent to the pagan god ashtoreth in order to promise prosperity for their lands. (ashtoreth=>astarte=>oestra=>easter over time). The symbolism of eggs and rabbits, and jesus still fulfill the sacrificing of an innocent to the god (who in the bible is actually known as a demon, the wife of Baal). And every spring, all Christians worship her. In pagan mythology, Ashtoreth was the god that promised fertility and life, she would tempt people to live in the physical world. She promised worldly satisfaction to the people who worshiped her. I still see christians today "worshiping" her and turning their backs on any kind of theistic doctrine. Kenneth Copelands wealth theology? Amway Global (a business that merges christianity with salesmanship in a pyramid scheme, complete with revival/I man salesman ship meetings)? Pat roberton's "law of reciprocity"? Joel Ostene? I know not all christians believe in this message, but this is a clear indication to me that some churches are not only bad, but they are inherently evil. They still worship ashteroth in the purist sense. By sacrificing their "harvest" for future prosperity and worldly gain.</p>
<p>And for the record, I am a believer. I am actually a devout believer, I just think that most modern interpretations of modern christianity, except for doctrinal catholocism, and mainstream methodism/lutheranism (all three of which still have major faults). I also have a very different take on spirituality then most people, but that again is for another discussion.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, you've lots of company,i.e. those who believe that the advances of modernity lend to incredibly more intellect, wisdom and insight. And in some ways that's the case, i.e. where biblical claims and information are being corroborated by research, findings, discoveries, technologies. I'm personally not aware of a single biblical statement that's been disproved as time marches on. You? </p>
<p>The flip side of that coin for many is that these advances somehow suggest that man is more capable of going it alone. Just give us enough time, and our talent will allow us to figure it all out. We'll eventually become as smart as He who made us. So we begin to worship intellectualism and its sister education.</p>
<p>While undoubtedly there'll be many Catholics, methodists, lutherans and other Christian denominations represented in the halls of Heaven, I'm not placing my faith in their denominational dogmas, organizations, or proclamations which might suggest that others not of that particular sectarian ilk are headed for hell ...beyond the basic belief that Jesus is who He said He was, that there is but one narrow path into His kingdom, and that He came to testify to THE truth ...and did so. And I believe it. Every word. For to consider anything less is precisely the blunder made by Eve, then Adam. I'm given the choice of all of it ...or none of it. Can't pick and choose the parts I like or make sense to men. That's called "original sin" and we're all pretty much inclined to prefer that model of faith. "Well, I like this part, but that notion that Jesus was God ...well that's pretty much over the edge. Now, I think he was a great example that God might have sent as an example of how we should live. But God? You gotta be kidding me."</p>
<p>But using just that illustration, one of the most common of notions among many, Lewis made it so very clear, saying the main problem is that Jesus proclaimed himself to be God. Numerous times, he did so. Thus to reject that part of it all, then embrace Jesus ...well it doesn't work. For to claim a man as a super-model for living who one otherwise must then agree is either liar, loonie, or Lucipher ...but not Lord! ...well we see the problem. And that's just one of the simple illustrations. </p>
<p>And the very same problem lies in biblical buy-in. We're not given the option of buying some of it as God's word, and not the rest. As one noted correctly, it's an all-or-none deal.</p>
<p>im 100% atheist and i dont mind this subforum so i dunno</p>
<p>No, you make perfect sense. Why should and/or would anyone mind something they don't believe in to begin with?</p>
<p>There is a lot of flame bait being laid in this topic. Don't be surprised if someone comes in here and starts posting rage'd comments.</p>
<p>thanks for the heads-up.;)</p>
<p>Does anyone know anything about Messiah College? My daughter is very interested in it!</p>
<p>^ oreo cookie</p>
<p>"Does anyone know anything about Messiah College?"</p>
<p>You will get better results starting a new thread. There a button at the top of the forum, or maybe you can get there by clicking on this;
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=723%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=723</a>. </p>
<p>Put the name of the school in the title."</p>
<p>What romanigypsyeyes said here:
"Most people dislike Christians because of their desire to run everybody else's lives by their belief system, regardless of whether other people actually believe the same things they do." can't be true enough. When I lived in Switzerland for 2 years most kids I met refused to believe that I didn't believe in Jesus and that I didn't go to church. They were convinced I'd suffer for the rest of my life, go to hell, and some other punishments they managed to think of.
And then, if I could quote Durak1234:
"Also those who didnt believe in him were tortured, inprisoned, executed, burned, and exterminated!"
That is exactly the attitude I faced. Aggressive. Unprovoked.</p>
<p>blue_box,</p>
<p>Christians face the same thing from non-believers. Any time we want our Christianity out in the public square, non-believers try to run our lives and shut us up. Non-believers cannot believe that we would chose to believe in a Heavenly Being that we cannot see or touch, that science cannot prove is actually God.</p>
<p>Christians are told to hide their Bibles, place their Christian cross necklaces inside their shirts so it won't offend someone, not to pray in a public restaurant (even if the prayer is silent), etc.</p>
<p>It works both ways but only seems unacceptable if the Christian is the one doing the "pushing".</p>
<p>I've never heard of that type of persecution, most atheists I know are accepting of Christians, even if we think they are slightly less intelligent on a whole. I get a lot of aggression from Christians...when I became atheist a lot of my family cut off communications with me completely.</p>