<p>Yes, I know. My reply was addressed specifically to Nikii. I agree with you on every point except solus Christus, and of course that we're all born sinners or whatever else Nikii tried to explain.</p>
<p>I've said the same thing as I495...don't judge all of Christianity based on the ignorant actions of a few. Just because the Crusaders used Christianity as their excuse, it doesn't give anyone the right to seek revenge on all Christians. Should I seek revenge on all Muslims because of the actions of the 9/11 terrorists? Should I seek revenge on all Germans for the actions of Hitler and his followers? Should Africian Americans seek revenge on all white people because their ancestors were treated horribly? </p>
<p>Many of my ancestors were victimized, tortured, murdered, for various reasons...should I retaliate against the decendents of those who perputated those acts???? Would people feel pity on me if I did? </p>
<p>Of course not. So why should the 9/11 terrorists be given a pass because some people who claimed to be Christians abused the cross? </p>
<p>Its absurd. One should never ever judge an entire group of people because of the actions of a few.</p>
<p>Quite frankly, blue...whether you believe it or not, accept it or not, it is solus Christus. The day will come when every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, even you. The only question is: who will do so by choice and who will be forced to make this confession.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Quite frankly, blue...whether you believe it or not, accept it or not, it is solus Christus. The day will come when every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, even you. The only question is: who will do so by choice and who will be forced to make this confession.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm sorry, you're really irritating me now with your brainwashed propaganda, and that's a first. I'm going to bow out of this conversation before you spout some quote from the Bible to prove your point.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Quite frankly, blue...whether you believe it or not, accept it or not, it is solus Christus. The day will come when every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, even you. The only question is: who will do so by choice and who will be forced to make this confession.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>American Taliban, anyone?</p>
<p>Talk about crazy brainwashed people. Do they allow you to see your family??</p>
<p>my life was changed since I bowed to Christ and accepted Him as Lord. Did I do so out of 'brainwashing' or 'propaganda?' Absolutely not. There seems to exist this stigma among many that one gives up rational thought or logic when they become a Christian, or that us believers are deathly afraid of words like 'reason.' Such things are gifts from God, and to the extent that I have received them, I hope to use my left brain for my Lord.</p>
<p>I'd enjoy debating with you more, but if you consider me to be 'brainwashed,' I'm not sure how much good I can accomplish.</p>
<p>I495: I'm looking for a debate too, not blatant idiocy. I really don't see how Nikii is different from Islamic militants. They portray their understanding of God through bloodshed, Nikii does it through stupidity. I think Nikii's worse.</p>
<p>
[quote]
God is a jealous God...He will not share His powers or His creation. ... God is God...He can be as arrogant as He so desires. ... it does make perfect sense that God would send non-believers to Hell...He cannot stand sin and cannot allow sin to be in His presence.
[/quote]
This is counter-productive to trying to convert someone to your religion. A god would have to be much better than this to interest me. Science is much better, not jealous, nor arrogant, not cruel.</p>
<p>I agree with just about everything Nikkii says. Is God jealous? Absolutely, given that so many overlook Him and place their love in far lesser things. Is God arrogant? (Well, there's nobody to stop him. :-) Does God send non-believers to hell? I would say two things: first, faith and acceptance of Christ is the only thing I know of that can save humanity from destruction. Second, hell (in my view) is simply a continuation of the separation from God that unbelievers experience every day, consciously or not. It's not as if God takes us from our paths and throws us into the flames; rather, He watches people walk right into hell in the same direction they've always traveled. </p>
<p>God may have plans for salvation that I know nothing about, but given how simple and extraordinary His message about Jesus is, I don't see how one could not be satisfied with Christ. </p>
<p>Science is not a God; rather, it is a means for understanding and exploring the natural world which God gave us.</p>
<p>"Science is not a God; rather, it is a means for understanding and exploring the natural world which God gave us."</p>
<p>Another CC thread laments that only 4 in 10 believe in evolution. I know some believers embrace evolution, but they're clearly in the minority of believers.</p>
<p>Offered nicely I495. God doesn't "send" us anywhere. He let's us choose.</p>
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[quote]
God doesn't "send" us anywhere. He let's us choose.
[/quote]
Your authority on that statement is?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Does God send non-believers to hell? I would say two things: first, faith and acceptance of Christ is the only thing I know of that can save humanity from destruction.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm afraid you don't know a lot then. =/ You're comparable to Nikii. A pity.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Second, hell (in my view) is simply a continuation of the separation from God that unbelievers experience every day, consciously or not. It's not as if God takes us from our paths and throws us into the flames; rather, He watches people walk right into hell in the same direction they've always traveled.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well then I suppose I really won't mind hell. Consequently I see no reason to not sin.</p>
<p>"You're comparable to Nikii. A pity."
It would be a far worse pity if I thought that every religion could lead one to heaven, thus damming anyone who agreed with me. </p>
<p>blue_box: When someone explains that hell is all about fire and flames, you state that as a reason why you wouldn't want to be with the God who allows hell to exist. When I explain that hell is simply separation from God, you say that you wouldn't mind it. My hope is that you won't mind the God who loves you so much that His Son endured hell so that you wouldn't have to. </p>
<p>I'm not a savior; I can't send people to Heaven. The best I can do is ask you to, as my pastor said, "give Jesus a chance." Read the gospel of John, or any gospel. Watch a video on Christian views of salvation. Read up on church history, even. And don't be surprised if you can hear God calling you away from the hell you don't even think exists. Don't be surprised if the crucifixion begins to make sense to you. </p>
<p>I know that God loves you, and that he wants you to be with Him--but that He's letting you choose between eternal bliss and total abandonment. If Jesus was willing to endure the punishment for every last sin you and I commit, the least you can do is give the Holy Spirit a chance.</p>
<p>"If Jesus was willing to endure the punishment..."</p>
<p>The problem is accepting this "If ..." proposition. You can't use anything in your bible to try to show that your bible is correct; that's circular logic (whoops, I used the word "logic" in this context!).</p>
<p>Are you Mormon? If not, just try to convince a Mormon that the Book of Mormon is fantasy; you'll see the problem!</p>
<p>
[quote]
If Jesus was willing to endure the punishment for every last sin you and I commit, the least you can do is give the Holy Spirit a chance.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And there lies the crux of this issue. I don't believe Jesus dies for my sins. I'm not going to give a chance to something which is non-existent.</p>
<p>And don't worry I've read the history of the Church (the real one, not the one most people try to portray).</p>
<p>I don't see the circular logic. I am making a statement (Jesus died for your sins and mine) that the Bible supports, but the statement derives from sources (affirmation of early believers, inspiration of the Holy Spirit, etc) outside of the Bible. Take the Bible away, and Jesus still died for my sins. </p>
<p>blue_box: my previous comment still stands. :-)</p>
<p>Jesus died, yes. But not for my sins. He just died.</p>
<p>Jesus is alive--not just in Heaven, where He rose after apearing to numerous people, but within billions in the form of the Holy Spirit. You don't have to see to Heaven to realize that Christ died for your sins and rose again; you simply need to listen to the Holy Spirit's message. (This can be as easy as reading the Bible, but the Holy Spirit reaches us in other ways, too.)</p>
<p>I think this thread is an excellent one. I know one family who has three kids at Liberty University in Va. They love the school. No info on the Colleges forum on that school. A friend of ours sent her son to a debate camp at Patrick Henry College. Little info available on that and it is not on the Colleges Forum here either.</p>
<p>There are many folks who are interested in Christian colleges for their kids. It's good that they too have a resource here. AS for bashing, it's not as though the other forums or threads are all that gentle either. Enter at your own risk at those too!</p>
<p>Here's a few reasons why I disagree with you and Nikii completely:</p>
<ol>
<li>Infinite punishment for a finite crime.</li>
</ol>
<p>Makes your God come across as a bit spiteful. Doesn't fit the loving image of God you're trying to portray. And not reading the Bible is a finite crime, so don't go on about "God is giving you a chance to read the Bible so go read it."</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Your extremely convenient argument that those who sin do not have the 'Holy Spirit' in them. Way too convenient for me to buy it.</p></li>
<li><p>You imply that Christianity's main advantage is washing away your sins. In fact that seems to be repeated over and over and over again. Christ died for your sins, so he acts as some kind of sponge, where you can sin, then claim to undergo some sort of realization where the 'Holy Spirit' flows into you, and then live happily ever after. That encourages sinners. If I ever (God forbid) commit some grievous sin I'll convert to Christianity. At least then I won't have to feel guilty about what I did.</p></li>
<li><p>The Bible was written by men. It wasn't sent down by God on a velvet cushion held by winged angels. Nikii's insistence on following it verbatim is farcical. You may as well consider the Harry Potter series as your scripture, for all the good it'll do.</p></li>
<li><p>If I could quote something I found on the Internet: "Every Christian is an exception to the rule of reason."</p></li>
</ol>
<p>You say a soul exists. You say the Kingdom of God exists. Nikii says Genesis existed. You say science is wrong.
Well, PROVE it. Give me solid, foolproof evidence. But I'll tell you one thing. You won't. You can't. You'd rather wallow in your self-delusional world than step outside and get a reality check. Well that's you and I've tried but there doesn't seem to be anything anyone can do.</p>