My handle might give away that this not a Mom’s perspective:
Just dropped off my daughter at the airport after a few days home, as she had offered to “cover” for everyone else.
My key question to her was - how will you spend Thanksgiving. When she told me of various friends getting together that afternoon for a dinner, that’s all I needed to hear. I know my mind will wander Thursday, and I will feel perfectly content knowing that she too is having a great afternoon.
And, someday, I will be equally grateful knowing that she is blessed to have her own family to be happy with.
Lol, you’ve tapped right into my goth girl past! The difference for me is my parent didn’t know of care what I was doing. I could rebel against the man all I wanted, but at the end of the day I needed to feed myself.
We probably do need another thread about kids these days.
Mountain- my favorite memory of Covid (yes, there were some bright spots but this was the brightest by far) was a “Not Passover” dinner my family held the summer after everyone was vaccinated. Nobody cooked (we got takeout), the young kids ran around with each other (cousins forgot how much fun it was to see each other!), we toasted the weddings of the “10 people in the backyard” ceremonies that we’d missed, oohed and aahed over the new babies, etc. For a family which typically got together a lot- the isolation of Covid was pretty wretched. Holidays in our “pods”. Lifecycle events on Zoom from someone’s living room. Trying to keep up with everyone but eventually shrugging your shoulders and saying “it’s gotta end at some point, right?”
It was really magical, even though the actual Passover that year (for the second year in a row, the first right after lockdown) was kinda/sorta depressing and dreadful. The healthcare family members had been vaccinated by then, and some of the others had one shot but none of the kids had a single shot. But by summer- we all felt comfortable enough to get together, outside, and honestly it made up for all the isolation.
Why am I telling you this? There is a different way to view your Gen Z kid’s request to do something “not Xmas”. And that is to embrace an entirely different type of celebration and derive pleasure from it.
Eat at an Indian restaurant and tell the waiter to choose a variety of dishes you’ve never had before? Have tea at a fancy hotel you’ve never been to, and use valet parking? Get insanely over-dressed and just go to Olive Garden?
You’re being given an opportunity to do something else with your D so take advantage and do it! The “cold” BF- either he’s temporary, and you can look back on him and be grateful he didn’t become a permanent member of the family, or he sticks around for many more years in which case finding a way to tolerate each other is going to become important.
But right now- she’s your D, and she’s giving you the opportunity for a memorable “Not Xmas”. What a gift!!!
This conversation is giving me a lot to think about- oldest is a jr in college so still coming home for holidays, but I realize that may not last forever. I am pretty lukewarm on holidays in general- growing up my mom always seemed so stressed- she worked so hard to have everything look nice, cooked a lot, was always struggling with inlaws and various expectations. I think as a result I haven’t put much effort into making holidays super special- we do different things, sometimes have travelled, if we’re home they are pretty traditional but very low-key- I don’t think I would care that much if my kids didn’t make it home for every holiday as long as I got to see them somewhat regularly. DH treats his entire side of the family as a chore, and that makes me sad- I would hate to have my kids feel that way about me.
Oh my goodness - I’m honestly identifying with just about every post, even when they seem opposed. Things that popped out at me.
I was a terribly oblivious, selfish 20-something. I really did not realize that my presence was valued/missed. My family was divorced, remarried, half-siblings…but now I know that my absence was felt. Now that I’m 54 and have my own 18 year old…
Regarding the boyfriend I’m not sure if your daughter is 23 or that was someone’s guess but by my mid-20’s I REALLY wanted to get married. Moving my relationship toward marriage and a family was my goal, it sounds old-fashioned to write now but I wanted it and felt like there were things I had to do (put in time with BF & his family, spend holidays with them) to make it happen. Maybe she’s not there yet. Maybe she is. Relationships seem pretty rare with “the kids these days” so maybe this is serious to her?
Formal Thanksgiving, respect. That’s me too! Putting together a family holiday is a lot, you deserve cooperation if not help. But maybe this year I’d settle for “I’m thinking family arrive apps at 2, Turkey at 3:30, dessert at 5. When should we expect you? So happy you can come, Aunt Nancy’s going to be thrilled to see you…”
It’s not easy to coordinate between two holiday houses/dinners. Even if the daughter knows the dinner schedule at BF’s house, schedules sometimes lag. The challenge I see in insisting on a particular departure time there may make it awkward / rude. In fact, that my be her the original plan was to just stay at BF’s house.
With more families spread out these days, it can get very complicated. Parents may love to still have their adult children for holidays, but those adults may have ideas/obligations of their own ! And may want to spend holidays in their own place, especially after having children. They may expect/hope YOU travel to them some day!
Something’s been bothering me about this specific situation and found it in rereading the posts. OP said DD has dropped her friends, and stopped her own hobbies to take up boyfriends. Aren’t these considered potential flags? Could BF be encouraging DD to keep away from her home as much as possible?
I may be way off base, but I guess if there’s any chance BF is being controlling, I would make sure DD knows she’s welcome any time under any conditions. Without judgment.
We have spent the last over 30 years at Thanksgiving with the same friends. All of us live a long way from our families, and traveling for that weekend just didn’t work. As the years progressed, all of our kids were not always there. But the hosts have said anyone is welcome to drop in at any time and they will make sure they are fed and welcomed. Our SIL was actually working EMS one Thanksgiving, and came over for a very short time. The hosts packaged up a bunch of food to take back with him for others working the holiday!
So…we will take our kids whenever and for how long they can come. And so do our friends.
[quote=“Marilyn, post:70, topic:3650745”]
OP said DD has dropped her friends, and stopped her own hobbies to take up boyfriends. Aren’t these considered potential flags? Could BF be encouraging DD to keep away from her home as much as possible?
[/quote].
This is something that has been concerning me for a while; in fact, I spoke to H about it last week, but his take is ‘she’s happy so we should be happy’ - he doesnt seem to have the same concerns I do.
D knows she & BF are always welcome here (she lives here!); he has been curiously absent from our home for some time.
It’s not old-fashioned and almost certainly the case for my daughter. I know she is hoping for a proposal soon. She’s an older Gen Z and most of her friends are married and starting their families.
Im curious at what age does that end? Im 50 and Id be really annoyed if my parents told me if I couldnt arrive at 2pm on a certain date to not come at all.
I also grew up in a family who worked in healthcare and we celebrated holidays when we could.
I can appreciate my parents AND still struggle with juggling how I spend my time on the holidays.
I guess my extended family has always been pretty accepting of some people coming early, most coming on time, some late and a few very late and staying varying lengths of time. Our gatherings tend to be more informal buffets, which lend themselves to more flexibility, I guess.
I’ve been reading this thread with interest. Cannot say enough good things about @blossom posts on this thread; brilliant, insightful and kind.
As the conversation moves towards the idea of boundaries, I keep on thinking of what I recently read. Boundaries are something you create to help you delineate your behavior and choices - not something used as a method of trying to control someone else’s behavior.
I found this article from the Washington Post to be helpful.
It’s important to remember that setting boundaries is about how you want to be treated or live your life — and how you react when someone crosses the line.
For instance, if you’re in a romantic relationship with someone who seems to flirt a lot with a particular person, it’s okay to say: “I worry about this relationship you have with this person; it makes me uncomfortable.’
But if you can’t come to an understanding around the issue, you may decide the relationship doesn’t work for you. “That would be a healthy boundary,” Webb said.
In this case, you’re not asking the other person to change their behavior, but you’re changing your own behavior.
It’s fine to have a casual event. It’s fine to have guests come if they can or need to leave early.
But OP seems unhappy with that by the way she framed the question. This daughter lives at home and doesn’t seem to have a reason not to be there on time or for the full event other than that she doesn’t want to.
I’m all for having a casual event, lots of apps and football and a walk in the middle of the event, but that’s my choice as the host. If I wanted a formal dinner, that’s what I’d plan.
I don’t think the daughter wants to be there, so let her off the hook.
If we insist on having “our” holiday the way we want it to be, we risk being selfish. As our children grow, they have their own ideas for how they want to live their lives. Families sometimes have to be flexible to accommodate what their members grow up to want. Why is the holiday that the parent wants more important than the holiday that the grown child wants?
My H and I decided that we would split the celebration of holidays with our two families - one lives many hours away - until we had kids. Once kids came along, we would not travel, but the far-away family would be welcome to stay with us. That’s H’s family, and we haven’t spent Christmas with them since 1988. After my parents passed, we had holidays with my brothers and their families. Then when D got married, we began celebrating holidays at her house. Over the years, “traditions” have changed as the people with whom we celebrate have changed. It would have been awful if H’s family had been angry at us for not traveling to spend holidays with them, or if my brothers were mad that we began new traditions with D, SIL & GD. What if we told D that we celebrate a certain way, and she needs to do it our way. I just don’t understand letting traditions, which should bind us together, becoming expectations that tear us apart.
I agree about adjusting traditions. When my in-laws and my mother were alive, there was no changing what we did year after year. I would have liked to host a holiday, but they would not give up being hosts. Once my daughter was at college, she only had a short time for Thanksgiving break. We did not want her to waste it traveling to visit family. We told them, we are staying home, you are welcome to join us if you want. They chose not.
I love having traditions evolve. We now include a friend of my daughter’s at our Thanksgiving table. His family is too far to travel for such a short time. I consider it a new tradition and will welcome him to our home this year for the third time.
