This will be a hard day

Parents Forum
81

<p>As I read the opening of the OP’s post, I felt a great deal of sympathy for what she was going through. Even though her D has some good options with merit aid, it is painful to let go of a dream and to see your kid thwarted. Then I got to the part where she started trashing others and specifically blaming LD cheaters for somehow stealing her D’s spot, and as the parent of an LD child who receives accommodations, I wanted to share with her the pain her post caused me, and the possible harm it could do, although I’m sure she didn’t intend it. </p>

<p>I realize that when you’re in pain and lashing out, you tend not to think of things like what impact your ill-advised words might have on others, but if you want to get a sense of what severely LD kids are going through – and what it takes for children with significant, well-documented LD’s to receive the accommodations they need both from their schools and from the ETS, and how devastating it is for them and for their parents when the accommodations are denied and they are (unlike kids with less profound LD’s who may be able to bravely cope and achieve some level of academic success without accommodation) consigned to failure – you might want to wander over to the LD board of CC for an eye-opener. </p>

<p>The high achieving LD kids with accommodations who were in the applicant pool with your D have almost certainly had to work harder than she did every single day; may well have a higher level of motivation to overcome the challenges they faced every day at school, for some every time they opened a book, and every time yet another teacher failed to cooperate in providing their accommodations, or had to give up their free periods or after school activities to be able to have time to take tests and quizzes; and had to deal with self-esteem issues that with any luck even being turned down by HYP won’t force your D to confront because she isn’t faced with an ongoing stigma and questions about her innate abilities and whether she’s somehow gaming the system and is actually a somewhat stupid kid who is just doing well because extra time and assistive technologies somehow make bozos look smart.</p>

<p>This is not to say that your D isn’t going through something real and very difficult both for her and for you. I’m just saying that disparaging or blaming vulnerable people who are contending with disabilities as well as suspicion about the validity of their accomodations is just not a good way to go. And frankly, I’m not enthused about your attitude creating one more kid (your D) or CC readers who accept what you suggest uncritically, who will look askance at my kid and other hardworking, accommodated LD students. Hurting others is not, IMHO, a good way to deal with disappointment.</p>

82

<p>This college search has been such a head game. I have disliked it intensely. As other people said it is really the game of life like it or not. It makes you question what you really believe in sometimes. Some people do exploit things. I have seen it myself, other people really deserve the help they get. The competition was fierce this year, the Kenyons were running the marathon and there were lots of them. Our kids will turn out great, learn life lessons , form lifetime values and be fine.</p>

83

<p>I discovered CC two years ago as my daughter was going through the experience of receiving rejections. I remember how awful it was–so unexpected to be rejected by both of the schools she dreamed of going to. I didn’t know what to do or how to handle it, so I used Google to search for help and it brought me here. </p>

<p>After getting through that, I started reading some of the other posts and then I felt like a “bad parent” because I hadn’t done all of the things that many of the parents on CC do to help their children have the best chance possible. </p>

<p>No, she didn’t get into her top two choices, but things have worked out fine so far. My only regret is not having her take some kind of test prep or even insist that she do the practice test for the ACT or SAT. That might have made a difference as far as scholarship money. She said to me, “Mom, don’t worry. I’ve got it covered. When taking the ACT, remember the A. It means ‘always guess’.” Lol.</p>

<p>I’m sorry for those parents and kids who are going through this right now. It’s tough, especially when your kid is smart and has worked hard and has done all of the right things. It doesn’t seem fair. Time is a great healer, but it’s hard to hear that at this time. It will be ok, though.</p>

84

<p>Disappointment can teach one so many things, but it is so painful to go through! A friend of mine once said, “You never learn anything from the relationships where you are the one to break it off.” I have found that to be so true in life. I have learned so much more from failure than success.</p>

<p>That said, I have been through this wrenching college admissions process with S1 and S2 (still one to go!) and they have been the most stressful experiences of my life (I thought labor and delivery was easier). It is much easier to go through something yourself than watch your children go through it. </p>

<p>The wisdom I have gained is to ignore the “prestige” and “hype” (the latest hot school) factors and try to find the place your child would thrive. I’ve forgotten which poster it was who mentioned “staying in school” is the important thing, but I agree. One S is attending one of those super selective (7%) schools and one is attending the nice, relaxed 40% school. I see more similarities than differences, and both were very lucky to find a school where they liked the atmosphere and could grow.</p>

85

<p>One other thought: does anyone else see similarities in the TV show “Survivor” and the college admissions process?</p>

86

<p>One of my DDs is LD. One observation I made is that when she reached the grade in HS where things start getting really tough, it was not tough for her. Her sisters, for whom things came easily & quickly, did have a noticeable hump to get over when they got to the time where just being smart was no longer enough.
Many bright kids fly through school and everything they do is good enough, until they reach a grade where they are asked to do more than regurgitate info and to instead think and synthesize information and to give it back with their own spin. In our HS that was grade 10. LD DD had no change because school work had always required a great deal of extra effort to overcome her LD. Her sisters and friends really had to learn to buckle down and do the advanced work.</p>

<p>LD DD ended up top ranked, 4.0UW, toughest classes, etc. Her accommodation has always and only been extra time on times tests, that’s it. At her university she no longer has that accommodation and it has affected her GPA with A- & B+ grades in some big GE classes where she just did not have the time to show her true mastery of the material. But she is still above a 3.5.</p>

<p>She has always had to work harder than her siblings and we had years of tears prior to diagnosis. She was very lucky to be diagnosed at all due to her compensations and she was frustrated by her fellow students comments that they too could do better with more time, as if she were cheating. </p>

<p>She literally was the only kid in her small HS who was in the top academic track and got extra time. The other extra time kids were in the bottom track, so it was a real learning experience for many involved, but I am sure some kids or parents may have thought there was nothing wrong with her and she had an unfair advantage :(</p>

87

<p>I wish I would have found this site months ago!Yes and I need to vent,too. Same boat as all of you. I can’t tell you how many times I have given advise/consolation, that you are right where you are supposed to be, on the path that you are supposed to be on, for whatever it is that you are supposed to do with your life, but telling that to most eighteen years old children is just not comforting or helpful for them. My daughter has since 7th grade wanted to go to USC film school. Everything has been geared toward that goal. Not in a creepy way of course, it was tempered with a dose of realism. she knew how hard it was to get accepted there. But , you know, I think it made her a better High School student. It kept her out of trouble because she knew if she went the way of some of the other girls she wouldn’t get in. She excelled in class work getting a 3.8 (UW)at a very strict academic all girls catholic prep school. Tuesday she got the USC rejection letter. this is a kid that rarely cried even when hurt as a small child and now she can barely speak with choking up! Yes, she will be fine and I hope happy where ever she ends up. But my god, is this painful for the parents or what? I did not go through this with my oldest, he had a different path .But seeing her so disappointed, well, this is a growth moment for all of us,no? I believe that the kids that aimed high,took the risk, and didn’t get into the schools that they wanted, have shown tons of character .That’s what they should be reminded of when they are in pain . They put themselves out there and they are better people for it.I mean that is the true goal,right?Being the best person you can be.
And yes, thank you, yesshecan, for so eloquently putting it in perspective for all of us lucky lucky lucky people that are not facing cancer, and the possibility of not seeing your daughters first year in college complete! You and your family are in my prayers.</p>

88

<p>Biggest lesson I learned from my D1’s experience - do not fall in love with any school until the acceptance is in, there is no just one school for anyone, just like there is no just one soul mate for anyone.</p>

89

<p>maybe a stupid question, I htught if you didn’t qualify for FA, it would show up on the application and you didn’t need to withdraw it.</p>

90

<p>I’m a college professor and I can tell you firsthand that parents who DO leave no stone unturned in procuring an advantage for their child, fairly or otherwise, are doing their kids no favor. If you think that the faculty can’t tell who cheated their way through high school, had someone else write their college admissions essay for them or had someone important make a phone call to reverse a denial of acceptance, you would be wrong. </p>

<p>Every year, we get a couple of kids in each class who we talk about – and we ask, “does anyone know what the story is about this kid?” And usually we find out that the parents gave a building to the school or someone important wrote a letter or some other type of arrangement was reached to get this child into the school. The question is, ‘would you really want your child to be the one child in the class who consistently struggles with the material, doesn’t appear to have the basic grounding necessary to really understand and benefit from the class, and who is starting to wonder if perhaps they don’t belong at the school?’</p>

<p>When people tell you that the main thing is to find a school that’s a good fit for your child, they are telling you the truth. My husband thinks it’s funny that I’m not more pushy with our own kids – but I truly believe that the best student in the class is the one who’s prepared, who has done the reading, who has something to contribute and who wants to be there. That’s not something you can buy and it’s not something you can fake. Realizing this has helped me to let go of any bitterness I may feel towards those parents who use their money and influence to game the system – they may think they’re helping their child, but they’re not. If they’re so shallow and insecure that they use their kids as pawns in some game whereby they feed their own self-esteem by bragging about their kid’s acceptances, then you should feel sorry for them. and their kids. Being a good parent is about supporting your kids, not about doing whatever you can to level the playing field for them and feeding your own self-esteem.</p>

91

<p>Momzie – Interesting points and I’m in complete agreement with you right up to the last line. In fact, when you have a kid with an LD, being a good parent is, at least in part, about doing what you can to level the playing field in terms of getting that kid the accommodations that will allow her to perform at her level of knowledge, motivation, and intellect. It is also about helping the kid accept that she might have a lifetime of working harder, perhaps using different learning strategies, than other people in order to acheive the same results, but that it’s worth it, so that ultimately she’ll be self-motivated and won’t have anything in common with the kid you and your colleagues raise questions about.</p>

92

<p>I have to get this off my chest. The other day my daughter was at her schools revisit day. She was sitting at a EC table, and a woman who knew they were seniors asked them where they were going to college. When my D said she was undecided but perhaps so and so University, the woman was very dismissive and made her feel bad. This is a confident kid who blows things off. It didn’t help that the girl next to her was going to Yale. Earlier in the day my daughter had given a speech about how coming out of her comfort zone , the experiences that she had, and how it had helped to make her the person she is and will become. I was so proud of her . She has done amazing things and is a great kid.People who know her LOVE her , one adult told me “I could talk to her all day” It kills me that someone would treat her like that. This is why these kids feel bad if they don’t go to an “elite” school. The pressure is enormous. After a few expletives, I told her what I think , how proud we are of her, I did have to validate that people can be like that. etc… I think she is mature enough to get around this , but it still makes me mad. I wish I knew who that woman was…or maybe not LOL (a little)</p>

93

<p>Hello, it’s the OP again. I had to reply to downtoearth because of what happened shortly after my D got the rejections that made her so upset: she was offered a 4-year full ride scholarship at one of her safety schools, in a special program that provides a number of perks. She would be one of 14 freshman students with this special status in her program. She was ecstatic for one night (as were we, of course, since we are not rolling in money with one of us working only part time at the moment). </p>

<p>Then she went to school the next day and in one class a substitute teacher was insensitive enough to ask each kid to say aloud where they were going to college. My D answered “It’s between X and XX,” the former being the one with the fabulous scholarship and the latter being the most prestigious school she got into, which she has not yet visited and which would most likely cost full price since it gives very little merit aid. </p>

<p>The teacher said, “Oh, X? That’s not a very good school.” Of course my D felt awful and asked me, “Why do people think it’s a bad school?” So a wonderful thing got quickly turned into a negative thing, or at least it lost some of its luster, because D is a kid and she is so tied into what everyone else thinks and judging her achievements though others’ eyes. That teacher was a total idiot-- how could anyone say that to a kid? </p>

<p>The school in question, X, is a place that does seem to have a so-so reputation but has several programs that are outstanding in their field. The one she got into is one of their very good programs. </p>

<p>The fact that she is obviously one of the top students they admitted and will be treated as such is an incredible plus for her, and it’s just a big achievement to be chosen, which happened after a series of interviews and classes, so as her GC pointed out “She was wanted by people who met her and rejected only by people who didn’t, which should make her feel a lot better about the schools she didn’t get into.”</p>

<p>But no, it’s not one of the prestigious schools, and this reputation does make me a bit uneasy about the teaching and the fellow students being on a level that would be good for her. She’s at the top of their range in terms of stats.</p>

<p>However, I think this worry is probably overblown. It’s true that overall these kids are not the top notch students who would be choosing between X and the Ivies. But that doesn’t mean there are not very smart kids in the bunch, who maybe are choosing X for the same financial reasons. Not to mention that some smart kids just didn’t perform well in high school and can’t get into top schools, but will blossom in college. And there is a lot of value in being in a less competitive pool, someplace where you can grow and shine and gain confidence and excel, instead of feeling anxious about keeping up with your brilliant peers.</p>

<p>Also – she could graduate debt-free! We could have money to help her with grad school! It would take so much pressure off us and allow for more enjoyment of life. Plus we are in our mid-to-late fifties and depleting our recently diminished funds/taking out a lot more debt would not be a great thing for us to do. Our jobs are not secure and we have no tenure or pensions in our future. </p>

<p>The tension around this comes from the fact that we COULD do it in order to send her to college XX (which she hasn’t even visited but knows from her peers is highly respected, and which one of her friends will be attending). But look in today’s paper, folks. Turning down a 4-year full ride in a good program at a decent college today? Wouldn’t that be, well, kind of crazy unless one was wealthy?</p>

<p>I have strayed far from the original thought which was about how hard it is for kids when people thoughtlessly put down their college choices. A couple of the parents of my D’s friends have also made disparaging comments about college X. </p>

<p>I really don’t know why the place has this “crummy school” reputation. I know people who went there, and they all say they loved it, and they are all successful people who are making a living. My sister’s best friend went there, and my sister says she was always the smartest kid in their class. My friends in academia tell me there are generally great faculty almost everywhere, since it’s very hard to get a job in that field. Not everyone can teach at an elite school. So what does this reputation really mean?</p>

<p>I am also torn about visiting school XX which we were planning to do. On the one hand, why get her excited if we really think that we don’t want her to make that decision, because we are grownups and understand the financial implications far better than she does. On the other, we kind of want her to have the chance to experience the good feelings from attending “accepted students” day at a prestigious school, and maybe see for herself that while it’s a great school, it’s not necessarily worth $200,000 vs $0 for the lesser-ranked school. I know that on these boards many people would advocate choosing the more highly-regarded school. It is truly a dilemma.</p>

<p>The programs would also be different – X is more of a pre-professional training though she could double major there, while XX is traditional liberal arts.</p>

<p>My H keeps saying that she could at least try X and if she is not happy she could transfer and we would still have saved one year’s tuition. Our friends/family think it would be insane to turn the scholarship down. I just wish D could not be hampered by people sneering at her achievement!</p>

94

<p>Lisares:</p>

<p>My son is in the same situation. He was accepted to a couple very, very good schools that will cost us (and him) money and he was accepted full ride/many perks/special status to a good but not top-of-the-heap school. (like top10s vs top 65). </p>

<p>Now, lucky for me, he is joyfully taking the full ride because he loves the perks, the no debt, the opportunity and being part of an honors community.</p>

<p>But there are people out there who are discouraging his choice, think he should take the
“prestige” school–and of course he is tempted–but he knows that next year these people will be long gone and that debt will still be haunting him. That his school is excellent in his subject areas, good enough for him to go to grad school anywhere, and FREE.</p>

<p>I hope your daughter will come to enjoy her special status, her good fortune and learn to see the negative comments for what they are…small people making themselves feel better.</p>

<p>I OFTEN tell my kids that people take their cue from your attitude. If you are upbeat, excited and positive about your choices then eventually they come around or shut up.</p>

<p>Your daughter sounds lovely and when she is in school meeting friends from her new school I think she will find happiness and the support she deserves from friends.</p>

95

<p>Congratulations to your daughter for the full ride! I’m so sorry she had to listen to the substitute teacher dissing School X.</p>

<p>How you feel when people say that X is second-rate? That’s how I feel when people say my son is less deserving because he gets accommodations for testing.</p>

96

<p>I think the sub should be fired. That was the most insensitive question on the face of the earth. And the response was worse. Is this a public school? Did you talk to prinicpal? My D goes to a high performing school. 99% go to 4 year schools, and all but the bottem 5% go to selective colleges. BUT the mantra of the school is that every child is valued and every child will find his or her own way. In this school, if that sub had tenure (which I dont think subs do, but if she did) she would be working parking and outdoor recess on 10 degree and rainy days.</p>

97

<p>First off (speaking of, "getting off one’s chest"D), the substitute was obviously wrong to do that. Wow. <em>blush</em> She might have been genuinely concerned that your D was beyond the ability of the school to challenge (I realize, not likely, unless she knows your D well enough). But if so, she should have taken your D aside privately and said, “I can see why you value that opportunity, but just make sure that you investigate the quality of academics at any college on your final list.”</p>

<p>In that regard, I would have my D visit the full-ride school on a day when she can sit in classes of her choice – particularly subjects of possible Major interest. It’s especially important to watch & listen to the quality of the responses from the students. At age 18 and above, a greater & greater proportion of our learning & intellectual stimulation – & even inspiration/motivation – comes from peers. If students are engaged & asking intelligent questions & providing articulate answers, that’s very important. I very briefly attended an undergrad institution where there (at that time) was exactly one quality professor in my Major, and one quality professor in my Minor. I immediately transferrred out of the school. (The school was reputable for very different fields; my fields were undeveloped there at the time.)</p>

<p>Clearly, though, with the overall quality of professors and of institutions in this country, one can generally count on a great undergrad education almost anywhere, but it’s worth the warning nevertheless.:)</p>

<p>Both my Ds attended a high school which in itself is defined by prestige. Talk about the contagion of elitism! However, they and I discovered that students who were sure of themselves were able to withstand the prevailing opinions. When a student held her own about a college choice, free from apology, the other students came to respect that and applaud/celebrate that. Luckily, the college counseling office itself had a policy that celebrated the accomplishments of all students, and every college acceptance, without prejudice, and that helped. If that’s not operative at your D’s high school, perhaps it’s time to voice your opinion as a parent, that such a policy promotes the self-esteem and success of every student there!:)</p>

98

<p>My kids were lucky this time around but I really wanted to add to this because it is something that is so close to my heart. </p>

<p>I think that this whole “prestige” thing is a societal issue. We can see by the way we live with all the stuff, the name brands, the cars, our obsession with hollywood and the rich and famous. It is so sad- and it does influence our kids more than we do. My husband and I both come from simple backgrounds- I wouldn’t know a Ferrari from a Civic. I’ve never been impressed with “job titles” or if your granddaddy was some big wig. But I have noticed my kids more and more caring about things like rankings and admission rates. They recently went to our state school for a special day were shocked at how wonderfully intelligent and great the kids were. I was so happy that they saw that 40% acceptance rate school was filled with as many wonderfully kind and intelligent people but how long will that last when the barrage from the world just keeps saying more more more!! I think there are schools that my kids will choose that will meet their academic and social needs but I hope they don’t ever let themselves think that they are something special because of the school…as opposed to who they are and the way they act.</p>

<p>It really is depressing. But I think that we have to keep reminding them that we aren’t the college we go to, we aren’t the clothes we wear, the house or the car we own- none of that should define us. </p>

<p>I’m really sorry for the people that can’t share the joy with your kids…remind your kids that it’s those people with the problem and not them. And that all of us who know better are celebrating for them!!</p>

99

<p>My son went to a private school where the majority of kids go to prestige name schools. It’s kind of taken for granted that if graduate there, you go ivy. However, when we started looking at colleges, it turned out that he wanted some things that had nothing to do with selectivity and name. So his top choices were matches and safety in terms of selectivity. </p>

<p>So he goes to a little known school that is very good at what it does and loves it. It was not a full ride. He turned that down too as it was not what he liked best. His school choice was his first choice all along. He turned down an ivy league school for it and that one was never first on his list. So there are some outliers out here who do not go to the most prestigious school that accepts them.</p>

100

<p>lisares: Your H suggests that your D could try the prestige school XX for a year and then transfer if she doesn’t like it. The problem here is that she may not get much merit $, if any, as a transfer. I doubt that the full-ride $ from X will still be available. You could be paying pretty big bucks at a transfer school.</p>

<p>I like the idea that school X has a great program in your Ds desired major. That would be a big reason for me to be leaning towards X. Other posters are right, that if your D goes to XX and you pay big money, no one will be around helping you and D to pay off the loans, or help you live with little retirement money.</p>

<p>I am a substitute teacher at a high school, and I would never DREAM of making such a derogatory comment – not to any kid in any of my classes, or any other kid I knew anywhere. I definitely think this should be reported to the school.</p>